A problem of my own making

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My niece's good friend is an AP student, great kid, extremely shy and often suffers with anxiety. She's had absolutely no help from her high school counselors or her parents who seem nice enough but were leaving the college thing up to her to figure out. We took her with us on our college tour last spring so should could start to think about the type of schools that might interest her but we didn't think it was smart to get more involved. </p>

<p>Fast forward to Christmas of this year. By this time, my niece has her list and common app essays complete. She's taken the SAT three times and has submitted applications to a few schools for early action. She is working on supplements for others (while complaining loudly about the time it all takes). The friend hasn't started writing a single college essay, doesn't have a college list, and has taken the SAT only once. And she's crying a lot and overwhelmed by how behind she is. </p>

<p>I've been very involved in helping my niece through the process via google doc schedules and essay reading. I live out of state and was visiting for the holidays when I spoke with the friend and decided to help her. Sigh. It was clear to me that she needed someone to put her on a schedule. Should that someone have been me? Probably not.</p>

<p>I agreed to work with her over email/phone. My sister spoke with her mom and the mom was relieved, probably because anxious teenagers don't often want mom breathing down their necks but also because the mom didn't have any clue about the process. (Disclaimer: My niece is the first and only student I've done this for. In other words, I am figuring this all out as we go.)</p>

<p>The friend and I came up with a list together. I didn't like some of the schools but, ultimately, it was her list. I asked her to make sure her parents ran the Net Price Calculator for each of the schools and okay them. I asked several times, emphatically, that they do this. She finally told me they did and the list was okay. I set up a google doc schedule for essays, supplements, interviews, thank you notes, and SAT score submission. I emailed her weekly to-do lists. I read and sent feedback on all of her apps and she managed to complete apps for 11 schools. And she felt great about it. I was thrilled. Between my niece and the friend, 22 apps were complete and I felt like I had earned a gold star.</p>

<p>BUT, when it came time to submit the apps, her parents had a difficult time paying for the application fees and SAT report fees. Yet, they earn enough that they didn't qualify for any wavers. Now warning bells are really going off. I have no idea what their financial situation is -- medical bills? debt? No idea. i don't these people! I'm guiding this student BLINDLY, raising expectations about schools. I now believe her parents are not being at all realistic about finances. Several of the schools on her list are NOT full need but I thought they had okayed them. I worry her list is completely inappropriate. I highhandedly insisted she include a state school and regional catholic college on her list because I worried about financing but now I'm afraid she should have been putting together a plan that begins with community college.</p>

<p>Of the six colleges she's heard back from so far, she's been accepted to six. Last week I shared with her another google doc spreadsheet where she could plug in the info to compare offers and realistically project costs, loans, etc. I urged her to have frank conversations with her parents. I worry that's not happening.</p>

<p>Clearly, I need to step back. Their financial decisions are not my business. But, I think I made a giant mistake getting involved. This is going to end in tears and I feel terrible.</p>

<p>If I had to do it over again, I would never have become involved without meeting with the parents and having a candid discussion about finances. Given the fact that I don't even know them, I shouldn't have become involved at all.</p>

<p>The moral of the story? I think this process can make us all feel a bit like experts and my arrogance has probably done a lot more harm than good.</p>

2

<p>Your niece was very organized. Her friend on the other hand seemed liked she had done no preparation at all. It was nice that you took here on a tour, but IMO that is all I would have done. Now I do commend you for attempting to help. Sometimes just a little direction and encouragement could make all the difference, but in this case it really did not matter. </p>

<p>Just sharing to run the Net Price Calculators was an excellent piece of advice. So many still don’t know they even exist.</p>

<p>For the future I would just offer information (like sharing the existence of NPC’s or other tips), instead of becoming a full college advisor. </p>

<p>Then you won’t have to worry too much of what happend.</p>

3

<p>I would suggest talking to the parents about finances, now. If they were relieved with the help you gave them, this is probably the final hurdle for them. Maybe they didn’t understand the NPC??</p>

4

<p>You’ve done all you can. College is waiting for the girl, but now she has to figure out how to pay for it. It’s all part of the process. You’ve led her down the rightous path-which means good karma for you.</p>

5

<p>OP - you’ve done good, you helped her getting into 6 schools. If you were a private GC, you would only advise them about FA, not to tell them what they could or could not afford. I think any private GC would tell you that they don’t have 100% batting average. At this point, I would step back and let the family work it out. I do not believe the parents would welcome a stranger (not a professional) to look into their finance or advise them on it. Even if they had the money, if they don’t want to spend it on their kid’s education, what could you possibly say to convince them otherwise. If they didn’t have the money, if would be VERY embarrassing for them to admit it to you, especially since they know you sister. Finance is always the toughest thing for people to discuss. Let it go.</p>

6

<p>Either she did talk to her parents about finances, and got their ok - in which case, it is their problem when they finally decide they cannot the colleges she chose - or she didn’t talk to them, in which case it is her own fault. Don’t beat yourself up about this. You got her hopes up about finishing applications, and getting into several colleges, which she did. </p>

<p>20/20 hindsight is great, and perhaps you should have involved the parents more, but they don’t want to be involved. I suspect things would have been the same, even if you had cc’s the parents on every email you sent. The issue with the finances could be one of cashflow - they didn’t have the money available right then. It also could be an issue of how the payment was being made. If they are “off the grid” financially, they may not have a credit card or debit card to use online to pay the fees.</p>

<p>Personally, I wouldn’t discuss finances with the parents, but would ask if they have someone with whom they can discuss them, and direct them to resources that are available to help them figure it all out. They can always ask you to go over it with them, but otherwise I would stay out of what is likely to be a very personal discussion.</p>

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<p>kelbee – You don’t yet know how this will end. Maybe it will turn out badly, maybe it will work out. In any case, you offered help to a student clearly in need of help. You lessened her anxiety, apparently by quite a bit, and you tried to anticipate financial issues. In hindsight you realize that you should have met with the parents, and hindsight can be brutally painful sometimes. I’m so sorry.</p>

<p>By the way, I don’t think you were being arrogant at all. You sound like a good, generous person who just wanted to help.</p>

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<p>As you now see in hindsight, the first conversation (although not necessarily with you, but the friend and her parents) should have been about money; how much they were willing to spend/borrow for college. Your “mistake” was helping this friend compile a list and not speaking with the parents directly to remind their child of any financial parameters. This is the hard part, because you cannot spend other people’s money and you can’t impose your thoughts about money and college on them</p>

<p>After that, there should have been a bottoms up approach to ensure that there were a couple of true safeties in the mix where friend stood a good chance of being admitted, were financially feasible options for the family and if admitted, the friend would be happy to attend.</p>

<p>Yes, it is hard to have the money talk with other people’s parents. If you are assisting the student, the money talk will have to include educating the parents on the financial aid process. Did the following conversation with the parents take place "your daughter is applying to “X” college/university. She may be eligible for X in merit $. The price of the school is $XXX. I would recommend that you run your numbers through the NPC to see if this is a financially feasible option for your family.</p>

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<p>SteveMA: That is my natural inclination. It feels like we’ve come sooo far, I could offer just a little bit more help.</p>

<p>But, I’m going to resist that. I think oldfort is exactly right. I need to step back. I don’t want the child or the parents to feel pressured or awkward. A google doc spreadsheet and essay reading is one thing. Engaging with them about their finances is entirely another.</p>

<p>And, I need to focus on my niece. As I said above, we’re still figuring this out for ourselves so I have plenty on my plate.</p>

10

<p>I typed my last message while others were responding. </p>

<p>CTScoutmom – good advice
Marsian – thank you
sybbie719 – you’re right and that conversation did NOT happen; it started so simply. I thought let me put together a schedule for her just as I did for my niece. The structure will help her get on track. Then, I realized she didn’t have a final college list. And, then I became more involved. I kept rationalizing that guidance counselors don’t work with parents and I’m just giving her a little more personal attention than hers has time for. Sigh.</p>

11

<p>I agree with Sybbie completely. The very first schools one should target are the ones a student is sure to get acceptance and are affordable to them. Beyond that, it’s a lottery. It gives you and all of us a good idea as to what GCs at highschools have to deal with because pushing too much for financial info is intrusive and not something one can get the info needed. And one will find that families are often all over the board when you talk affordability.</p>

12

<p>As long as you counseled this young lady to apply to an in-state public, either flagship or directional, which is highly likely an affordable option you’ve done all you can. It’s wonderful to help friends of your children if they ask or even parents of your kids’ friend if they ask and it’s wonderful to help kids expand their horizons, but not everyone can afford to apply to a bunch of schools and not everyone can afford an upcharge for going far away and not every parent wants their kids halfway across the country and the vast majority of kids will attend their state flagship or directional. If this young lady did just that then where she attends when all is said and done can be a discussion between her and her parents.</p>

13

<p>I suggest a brief conversation with the mom, since you have talked to her in the past. Let her know that you asked the girl to have them run the net price calculator for each school, and the girl said they had. And that now it is important for her (the mom) to help the girl stay on top of the financial aid paperwork so they can hopefully get a result similar to the calculator results. If the mom says, “What calculator?”, then you know the girl wasn’t being truthful with you. Then you explain to her what it is, and suggest they run it immediately for each school. If the mom just says, “Okay”, then she goes and does FA stuff with her kiddo.</p>

<p>It is all you can do now, but you have already done a LOT. Kudos to you for helping out. Even if the girl ends up at CC, she is going to be a whole lot better prepared for the transfer process in two years.</p>

14

<p>Sounds to me as if you have done her a great service. In addition to everything else, you did a great job in ensuring that she had some potential financial safeties on her list. NO WAY would it have been appropriate at any time for you to bring up finances with the parents: you are not a professional and they did not hire you with that understanding. If the girl ignored your repeated requests to have her parents run the NPCs, or if they ignored it, it is their problem to figure out. Let them deal with it.</p>

<p>At this point, I would bow out.</p>

<p>If they want your help with the next phase–or phases, she might be dealing with wait lists and comparing aid offers–let them come to you and ask you. At least the girl has options. It sounds as if she would have had none at all had you not stepped in.</p>

15

<p>I don’t see that you did anything wrong and you should give yourself a big pat on the back. If State U is the only affordable option so what? If even that’s not affordable, that’s not your fault. I wouldn’t give it another thought. You told her to run the financial calculators - that’s all you needed to do.</p>

16

<p>kelbee, don’t be too hard on yourself. It was super nice of you to do what you did. I think helping someone not your own child is very hard. And thankless. </p>

<p>My sister always said that she wanted me to help her with her child’s college admission. When I talk to her I find that they are completely unrealistic in both affordability and admissions. What she really wants is for me to top what schools my kids got into and the aid my kids got. Which is not possible at all. </p>

<p>Just remember you helped a ton. You have to let go that they outcome will be what you want it to be.</p>

17

<p>Don’t beat yourself up. With your help, this girl learned not just lessons about college applications, but also how to organize the whole process of spreadsheets, essays, thank yous, and interviews. Those skills will serve her very well at college and future jobs. You could back off now and if she needs more help, she can ask you.</p>

<p>She also learns that kind and generous people help others and perhaps she will pay your gift forward.</p>

<p>I have a friend whose son is a junior. I am “helping” them create a list, but right up front I asked her about finances/what they could afford and his grades/tests. That has helped to keep many dream schools off his list because they just won’t be able to afford them or they will be too tough academically. I think he will end up with good choices, but the difference here is that I know the parents and they feel comfortable talking.</p>

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<p>I think you’re a saint.</p>

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<p>I think you gave that girl a wonderful gift: attention from a responsible adult regarding a life-changing decision process and a solid understanding of the application process. Some kids’ parents aren’t involved with their kids, for a variety of reasons, which puts these kids at a great disadvantage. Sometimes kids hide the significant degree of dysfunctionality in their household.</p>

<p>Now it’s up to the parents to determine the financial feasibility and payment choices. Not knowing where the girl resides, are any of the six colleges where she’s been accepted also “financial safeties” with a relatively low COA? Did the girl note whether parents had completed financial aid forms?</p>

20

<p>These things very often end in tears so I wouldn’t take the burden of that on you. Even though you were helping the ultimate responsibility rests with the student and her parents. </p>

<p>There is really nothing more you can do for her at this point. The remaining decision points are with her and her parents. </p>

<p>In this situation I would call the mom and do a warm hand-off. Provide the mom with the spreadshee and the dates and the info you had assembled. Wish them well in their endeavors. </p>

<p>You did good.</p>