Northeastern Pharm.D vs Johns Hopkins Pre-Med

^This is just my own opinion. It seems to me that a “traditional” major alongside the pre-reqs as if they were a “minor”, would be more solid academically than the pre-reqs as a “major”, and 6-8 classes in whatever the student wants as if it were a minor. And I know that in terms of med school admissions “Premed” majors fare less well than math, biology, philosophy, foreign language, engineering, biochemistry, English…

Adding the Bioethics and Medical Humanities minor (sorry, I hadn’t got the name right the first time around) to a “regular” major alongside premed pre-reqs would make the most sense to me in terms of thorough preparation for a variety of health professions or research.
http://rockethics.psu.edu/initiatives/ethics-education/ethics-degrees-course/bioethics-minor-1

I went back and checked the 4-year plans; the first year is the same, but I noticed some differences
1° much less biology
2° a bit more physics
3° mandatory courses in Health Care System and Medical Ethics (1 each)
4° more electives

http://science.psu.edu/premed/docs/premedicine-rap-mcat-2015

http://bio.psu.edu/undergraduate-portal/our-curriculum/biology-option-check-sheets-and-4-year-plans/geneplan.pdf
http://bio.psu.edu/undergraduate-portal/our-curriculum/biology-option-check-sheets-and-4-year-plans/neuroplan.pdf
http://bio.psu.edu/undergraduate-portal/our-curriculum/biology-option-check-sheets-and-4-year-plans/vertphysplan.pdf
http://bio.psu.edu/undergraduate-portal/our-curriculum/biology-option-check-sheets-and-4-year-plans/genbioplan.pdf

http://bio.psu.edu/undergraduate-portal/our-curriculum/information-for-schreyer-students

there is some suspect misinformation on here by MYOS.

Is Hopkins worth 90k more than Schreyer? Unclear. Are they comparable in student strength and prestige? Please show me how.

Also, since when does Scheyer have an 8% acceptance rate according to MYOS?

see here: https://www.shc.psu.edu/counselors/denied.cfm

It’s between 20 to 25%.

https://www.shc.psu.edu/documents/about/annual-report/annual_report_1415.pdf

Middle 50% of test scores (even though Schreyer says it doesn’t take into account test scores, this is a fair metric to assess if indeed Scheyer enrolled candidates are actually comparable to Hopkins students given the significant ostensible difference between Schreyer and regular PSU test scores):

SAT 50% range:

Scheyer: 1950 to 2153

Hopkins: 2090 to 2320

20 to 30 points is likely a negligible difference. Over 130?, significant in my mind.

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/johns-hopkins-university

Hopkins enrolls a fair portion of students from PA (It’s one of the top 5 states enrolling Hopkins students - and these students likely had schreyer as a cheaper option give it is instate with a 25% acceptance rate versus Hopkins at 12% overall, yet they still went to Hopkins because they acknowledge there is a tangible difference).

4 students admitted to do research from Schreyer to Hersey is also not a selling point to me. There is no admissions needed to do research at Hopkins medical school over the summer as a Hopkins undergrad. Just e-mail a professor of interest. There’s also tons of funding for Hopkins students via Howard Hughes, PURA, and other university grants.

Back to the original OP, I myself was given 25k in financial aid by JHU every year. No reduction at all in subsequent years as my parents’ financial situation did not change.

Blah2008, were you given 25k of grants or was there some loan component ?

.

I was given 25k grants in financial aid based on need each year for 4 years.

All in all, the point isn’t that schreyer is sorta jhu. Rather, the point is that Schreyer may be a better choice than NEU if JHU is the reference point but is too expensive.

(Note that I’m not affiliated with any of those three but am trying to look at OP’s daughter’s options.)

8% is the number I’d been given and I didn’t actually calculate that rate, it looked correct in terms of applicant/number of places. 20% is not bad even if it’s not as impressive :).

For the 4 md/phd freshmen, they don’t represent how many Schreyer students perform research (they’re ALL required to by junior year at the latest, and receive support). That program is a special program with Hershey and is open to students who want an md/phd. JHU does have an edge on that account though.

However on the matter of test scores, since those are explicitly NOT used to select students, to me it is quite impressive they’re high anyway. Keep in mind that this includes a variety of majors that typically aren’t part of honors programs or at jhu - I was surprised recently to learn that Schreyer includes elementary school majors, agricultural science majors, and basically all majors from all the possible schools - all students whose results are high for their group and bring a diversity of perspective even though.
As an aside regarding high -2100= top 2% -scores, which may indeed… or may not… matter to OP, I personally don’t think a student with 2150 and a student with 2200 are that dissimilar, but OP may well differ. Overall, JHU is higher ranked, there’s no doubt about it, and it’s top students would be top anywhere including Harvard or Stanford ; Schreyer students are those who were just below the Ivy threshold, really impressive but not at that ‘top 20’ level.
However it is highly ranked too (top 10in teh country, receiving massive respect throughout the Northeast, whether for academia or employers) - especially since it’s being compared to NEU.
(Schreyer scores are 1950-2153 and neu scores are 1960-2210 for instance. Keep in mind that NEU excludes internationals ’ scores whereas psu doesn’t, and that new selects students in large part based on scores, whereas Schreyer doesn’t.)

Is JHU worth 90k more ? OP may well decide it is. It IS a terrific school.

Anyway, the suggestion came after reviewing the list of possibilities and their costs ; it was related to the fact OP doesn’t really want to pay full price at JHU, and OP’s daughter isn’t sure she wants to be a pharmacist (which makes the NEU program a potential disaster) so NEU may not be the right choice either. Schreyer would thus be a good alternative to NEU without costing as much as JHU. (Even among students who are sure about being pharmacists after shadowing pharmacists there’s a drop out rate when students discover the job doesn’t have human contact the way doctors experience, that the job often is tedious, that it’s very different from what they thought day-to-day. Choosing your future job at 17-18when you have no clue what it’ll entail is risky, even for those who think they know what they want, so it’s even riskier if students are really unsure about their career path. ) Schreyer offers a good balance : much cheaper than the other choices, flexibility in choice of major, research opportunities, and a diversity of high - level students.

The one downside is that the daughter likes cities, and Penn State is in a college town. No skyscrapers that I know of. Lots of things to do for college students but it’s not central Boston. Only OP 's daughter can measure whether living in a college town is okay and whether it can be offset by the freedom to choose what she wants to study, or if living in a big city is more important than being able to choose her major and career.

If OP has decided he can pay for JHU the point is moot :slight_smile: .

I don’t know if your daughter has made her decision, but I wanted to add a few points about NEU. I agree the two best choices seem to be Penn State and NEU and a few points need to clarified about NEU.

  1. It is easy to change majors. (If Pharma turns out not to be her thing)
  2. Co-ops do not have to be work experinces, they are also used to do research with prof. You do not pay tuition during co op. My DS is currently on his second co-op (CE/EE). I could go on and on about what he has learned about the workplace and how he has matured, but the point I want to make here is that after each co op he has become a better student. He was a good student to begin with, but the co-ops seem to make him more scholarily.
  3. NEU is investing heavily in research and hiring professors. The honors program had their 1st Rhodes Scholar. Your daughter can be challenged academically.

She has decided on NEU. Following reasons : Closer to home. She is in honors program which has the top 5-10% students admitted to NEU & they live together, so good peer group. Great co-op program, you don’t pay tuition during these periods. Cost is reasonable (for us anyway after the 18k merit award). Terminal degree with great job options in spite of the glut in pharmacy grads - she is unlikely to go into retail pharmacy anyway. She will very likely get a minor in Informational Bioinformatics or something else, she has several AP credits she can leverage from. Worst case, if Pharmacy major is not to her liking, she can always switch to some other major in Northeastern. Not likely, since she is the kind of person who finishes everything she starts. I think she will be fine. We can agonize for ever about this about “what could be”, but we are all at peace with the decision. I remember going through the same crazy process 30+ years back when I had to choose between admission to 2 excellent medical schools & 2 excellent engineering schools in my country. I did okay, I think she will also ! Thanks to all of you for your reasoned & thoughtful answers.

Congrats. I hope she makes things work out in pharmacy.

NEU sounds like a great fit, my D really loved it, came very close to attending. Congratulations on the decision!

Congatulations!
Do remind her that she should re-assess her interest for Pharmacy every semeser, since Northeastern makes it easy to switch - it’s not a matter of “finishing what you started”, but realizing who you are and what you want, as a 20 year old, may be quite different from what you thought you’d want as a teenager. Respecting the insights maturity provides is actually better than stubbornly sticking to a plan designed when you were a teen and saves time because kids “on rails” who don’t revisit and reassess their choices often get stuck and question everything all of a sudden, with a late change of majors the most common result. Better reassess and switch while you still can.

The program doesn’t get very “pharmy” until second semester and even then just one class:

http://www.northeastern.edu/bouve/pharmacy/programs/pharmd/#06curriculum

OP’s D would have probably been able to get merit at Pitt (with conditional acceptance to pharmacy school) great for pharmacy and pre-med. Also Duquesne has a respected 6 year (2+4) pharmacy program, they give $10-20 k merit and it’s good for all six years. So costs could have potentially been $150,000 to $180,000.