<p>My daughter is in LOVE with Northwestern's dual degree program for vocal perfomance and the college of arts and sciences. Can anyone tell me just how hard it is to get into this program? I know Columbia/Julliard is only a few per year.</p>
<p>She is a Soprano, All-State, won a small scholarship at NYSSSA this summer. Her course load is very rigorous (she's never had lunch in 4 yrs). GPA is 103.72. SATs 700M 730CR 800W.</p>
<p>Does anyone know the stats for acceptance in the dual degree program? Will applying ED help?</p>
<p>Acceptance to a dual degree program like Northwestern’s will in large part depend on the audition. I believe Northwestern accepts more applicants than programs like Columbia/Juilliard, Harvard/NEC and Hopkins/Peabody where at most a few per year are accepted. Her academic stats look promising compared with the middle 50% figures for the college of arts and sciences, but I can’t say exactly what Northwestern wants academically from their dual degree applicants. The auditions will be highly competitive, particularly for sopranos.</p>
<p>I would be very careful about applying to a binding ED program for a couple of reasons. First, what would happen were she accepted by the college but not by the music school? Technically, she would be obliged to attend to work on only the non-music degree. Second, if you apply ED and are accepted, you give up the opportunity to negotiate for better aid packages elsewhere.</p>
<p>Schools frequently mentioned for those considering the double degree route are Bard (where all of their BM students have to have a non-music second major), Lawrence and Oberlin. There is a lot of institutional support for double degrees at these schools and they accept a relatively large number of students to dual degree programs each year.</p>
<p>I would second BassDad’s suggestion to avoid any binding ED applications if you’re going the dual degree route. At most institutions they are generally very byzantine, and you don’t want to get tied down too early. (And then of course there’s the story I heard from Juilliard’s admission director re: a person who applied to Columbia ED, and later auditioned for Juilliard, but didn’t tell both schools they were applying to the DD, was admitted to both Juilliard and Columbia, but could not attend Juilliard because the Columbia ED was binding!)</p>
<p>DD’s that take place within one single roof, including schools like Northwestern and Michigan, will tend to have more students participate than those programs that are shared between two schools (like Harvard/Tufts/NEC, Columbia and the J, Peabody/JHU). </p>
<p>I would definitely put Oberlin at the top of your list. Lots of kids there start the double degree, and a fair number of them finish–and they have the flexibility to alter their plans mid-stream. I’ve heard now a number of great singers from Oberlin at Bard auditions. (I can put in this plug in part because we don’t have an undergraduate voice program in the conservatory here at Bard! We do have a great BA in voice, and it’s possible to double major, but it’s not the kind of training you get as a BM vp major at, say Northwestern or Oberlin). </p>
<p>Yale should also be in the mix. I’ve heard a number of undergraduates from Yale over the years as well, and on balance they sound as polished as graduates of most conservatories. </p>
<p>My son applied double degree at Northwestern. He was accepted into the music school but not the other college. When we called on this we were told that many dual degree applicants are denied entry into one or the other college for space accounting reasons and that once enrolled in one college, such as music, entering the dual degree program becomes a mere formality. We were assured that not being accepted into the second college is a complete non-issue. Based on that, I would say focus on the music audition and if accepted into Bienen, you’re golden for the dual degree.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t discourage her from applying to Northwestern, but I would discourage the ED application. When we were going through this process a couple of years ago, NU told us outright that Bienen accepts only very few musicians during the ED round, reserving the majority of its spaces for when the majority of students are applying–regular decisions. Her stats certainly sounds great for the college of liberal arts. Only an audition can tell whether she would be accepted into Bienen, but her academics will definitely be helpful there–grades do matter at NU! I would say go for it! But my caveat would be, as others have said, it would be a tragedy to be accepted ED to the college and not to the music school!</p>
<p>My dear D is a dual degree at Northwestern/Bienen vocal performance. 2 keys to getting in: being admitted to Bienen on voice. Sopranos are very competitive, admission based on audition only. You actually must get Permission to apply ED, and this is discouraged. Your daughter prbably has the academics to get accepted at Weinberg. As other posters have stated , if you get into Bienen you can apply to add dual degree. You can also audition for Bienen after the fact , but this is more difficult.</p>
<p>Hello Everyone!
Our family lives in Germany, but we have US citizenship/Swedish citizenship. Since we are not in the US, I have a lot of questions about the dual degree program.
My son is a junior this year would like to do music composition/chemical engineering. He has had 10 years of piano, 8 of cello, plays in orchestra, plays cajon and cello in our church and has written several songs and 4 classical compositions. He was given a partial scholarship for Oberlin’s composition camp last summer and loved it. He also won a small composition contest last year at our music school in Germany.<br>
He is doing well in school, 4.0 unweighted GPA, no ACT or SAT scores yet and has taken 4 AP classes (5’s on Music Theory and Germany, 4 on US History and 3 on Biology), has 2 APs this year–European History and Chemistry and Honors English. This year he is doing an independent study for music composition with a 2nd year college textbook and the AP theory teacher. Next year he will do 4 AP classes (Physics, Calc, Statistics, and English). He went to 6 years of Swedish school (in Swedish), 2 years of German school (in German) and now is at an American High School doing HS in English. I think his PSAT was a 1310 and that he is a bit slower on reading and writing in English since he has just been doing English in school for 2.5 years, although we speak English at home.
He has never lived in the US and so we are trying to navigate what would be a good fit for him. He LOVES school and science (Top Biology Student 9th grade) and math (Top Algebra 2 student 10th grade), but definitely thinks outside the box since he has done schools in 3 cultures.<br>
He loved his time at Oberlin this summer, but we are not sure if he would get in or not? Is he allowed to write the professor he worked with and ask for his feedback? He said that Oberlin felt a lot like living in Sweden for him which he loved, but the school does a lot with “new music” and he would prefer more classical compositions, but yet they would give him a great basis.<br>
We have no idea what type of compositions schools are looking for and how to approach this whole ED situation. He visited Northwestern this summer and loved it, but now has heard that if he applies DD and ED and gets rejected from one he still is obligated to attend the school. It sounds like it would be good for him to apply ED for Bienen School of Music and then enter later into the engineering school? Or not?
He is a dedicated student and loves to learn and wants a challenging program. Any advice for us as to possible schools? ED at other schools?<br>
Any advice for us and how we should contact schools? Is it good to have regular contact with an admissions counselor, or is this seen as annoying? We feel a little bit uncertain of everything since we have been out of the US for so long.
I would appreciate any advice regarding good schools for composition, chances of getting in, how to have your compositions evaluated?, and early decision vs. regular decision.
Thanks!
Swedemom</p>
<p>I’m not sure why you feel that your son must apply ED anywhere. I think you’d be better off with Regular Decision applications - especially for two degrees, so that you can weigh your options in April.</p>
<p>As for possible schools, if I were you I’d have him look at Michigan - it is a huge composition department and so open to many different styles - including more conventional old style classical composition which it sounds like your son is currently interested in (although that will probably change with more exposure to New Music.) Northwestern is more oriented towards 20th/21st century composition - although with less of the European Modernist aesthetic than Oberlin. There are lots of good programs for composition in Europe - which would be either free or close to free for your son. Are you prepared to pay American tuition and room and board? I do understand, however, that in Europe getting two degrees at once would be very difficult - but if I were you I’d check them out. Compmom has been exploring many European programs for possible graduate, as well as summer programs, for her daughter - she may have some good suggestions for you.</p>
<p>University of Indiana would be another large composition program which would have options for him in aesthetic styles, and allows a double degree. USC is another school to consider where it is possible to pursue both music and engineering. Vanderbilt, too. As for a college reminiscent of Sweden he should look into Lawrence University in Wisconsin. They are very supportive of double degrees - although I am not sure of the current aesthetic of their composition faculty. They would not offer engineering, however. He could also look at programs where he could take courses in music composition, but major in Chemical Engineering - which would be most large universities, including Columbia, Berkeley, Chicago, Yale, MIT etc. It is not necessary to get a BM in Music Composition to study composition - students are not restricted in their course offerings in the US, especially compared to European universities. And it is not necessary to have a BM in Composition to apply to grad school, if one has the portfolio.</p>
<p>As for advice for your son’s growth as a composer - I would recommend finding him a private teacher - a composer, and not a high school AP Music Theory teacher. Composers are always happy to have a revenue source - ask around at conservatories within travel distance (even if once or twice a month - it would be worth a few hours trip.) In addition, your son should start attending concerts with programs of 20th and 21st century music. And start listening to everything and anything. <a href=“http://www.wqxr.com’s%5B/url%5D”>www.wqxr.com’s</a> “Q2” the streaming New Music radio station is a good place to start. As is Counterstream Radio.</p>
<p>I also recommend that he starts researching the composition professors at schools which interest him - listen to their music, read their websites and philosophies. Then when he finds teachers with whom he feels he might be a good fit, he can email them directly.</p>
<p>Music/engineering is a particularly complex dual degree - you need to make sure the university has an accredited engineering program and that dual degrees are specifically allowed between engineering and music. My D is currently applying for this combo (music performance, not composition) and we have found several schools where dual degrees are allowed, but not with engineering.
FYI, Indiana’s engineering program is actually at UIPUI in Indianapolis. While that’s commuting distance from Indiana’s Jacobs music school at their Bloomington campus, I’m not sure dual degrees are possible across the two. Vanderbilt restricts music majors to only double majoring with computer science in the school of engineering. You may be able to go the other route and start in engineering then add music, but I’d verify.
Michigan does allow dual degree between music and engineering, as does Northwestern, JHU/Peabody and Case Western/CIM. It’s also doable at CMU, although atypical (doubling between college of sciences and music is the norm). I’m sure there are others as well, but these come to mind. Oh - note some music/engineering dual degree programs are five years.
Finally, I agree with the advice to skip ED if you go this route. For some schools you are looking at three decisions: acceptance to music program, engineering school and dual degree (at some schools, you may be accepted into both majors, but not the dual degree program). Too many moving parts, and many auditions after ED timing, that make ED difficult.</p>
<p>Momof2TeenGirls - thanks for clarifying and correcting the information on double degreeing in engineering. I, it appears, had no idea of the specifics when it comes to Indiana and Vanderbilt. The other issue for swedemom is that her son wants a traditional, conservative in style, composition program which is harder to find, although all of them, no matter their aesthetic, teach the basics. CMU would certainly be a good one to consider as well as Case Western/CMU. Does Rochester offer engineering?</p>
<p>SpiritManager - no worries. Husband and I are both engineers and we still find it complicated (plus we know nothing about music - learning so much from these boards!). Rochester does have an engineering department, and I believe most majors are accredited including ChemE which swedemom mentioned. You also mentioned MIT which is great for ChemE, but I’m not sure on dual major there. I know some of the big state schools, like Illinois, do not allow the dual (yet Michigan does).
Swedemom and OP - One resource we stumbled upon early that was helpful was [Home</a> - Music Double Degree](<a href=“http://musicdoubledegree.com/index.html]Home”>http://musicdoubledegree.com/index.html), though I believe some of the info was a little outdated and the list is not exhaustive. We talked to lots of engineers and musicians and ended up researching any schools that were suggested as possibilities, which is how we came upon the Case Western/CIM option.</p>
<p>I think it is possible to study both Chemical engineering and composition (in their very fine, but not conservative dept) at MIT. Not sure what actual degree(s) one would end up with, though. Double major, major, minor, etc. And since you say Rochester offers engineering, then Swedemom should definitely explore the Rochester/Eastman double degree program.</p>