Northwestern or Dartmouth

<p>prove to me slipper that a smaller percentate applies to law school from each school</p>

<p>i would like to see that</p>

<p>i know at Cornell, out of the 3000 students, only 220 applied to law school each year</p>

<p>ur simple and hasty assumpation that you can take teh # of students at harvarvd law and divide by the toal # of students of a school is ridiculous</p>

<p>D-mouth has 1000 students roughly</p>

<p>Cornell has 3000 students</p>

<p>i am sure that 220/3000 from Cornell is a pretty small percentage of kids applying to law school</p>

<p>so what are the figures for d-mouth. Since D-mouth has no pre-professional programs, i am sure that roughly 150-300 kids are pre-law. Am I wrong?</p>

<p>The same goes for Northwestern, the arts/sci division is 1000 students, and the other 950 are in other schools, i.e. music, etc..</p>

<p>When comparing your figures, why don't u only compare arts/sci students b/c these are for our sakes, the ones that are applying to law school. </p>

<p>Good day, the power of statistics!!!</p>

<p>As far as ECONOMICS goes, Northwestern >> Dartmouth.</p>

<p>slipper,</p>

<p>The first 3 lists (or rankings) are really redundant and geography plays a huge role on all of them. Harvard/Yale are both literally next door to Dartmouth; even if all else are equal, it should be no surprise that more Dartmouth kids apply to those schools and Dartmouth sends more kids to those two schools simply because of the location. Northwestern has a law school with one of the best bar-passing and job placement rates in the nation. Last time I checked, Northwestern was the best feeder school for its own law school and UChicago law school (tied with UChicago). 13 out of the 15 graduate schools in the WSJ ranking are in the northeast (WSJ was so biased that Kellogg wasn't one of their top-5 MBA programs!). So colleges in the east coast would easily send more students to those grad schools simply because of location. None of those lists show #applied vs # admitted vs GPAs to prove one would give a better edge over another in terms of applying to Harvard/Yale law school.</p>

<p>Revealed preference and LAISSEZ-FAIRE are not reputation ranking. </p>

<p>The US News is the one that says something about "repuation" and they both get 4.4 for peer assessment score. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.lazard.com/Careers/FA-NA-UG.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lazard.com/Careers/FA-NA-UG.html&lt;/a> On the other hand, Lazard, one of the most picky I-banks, has Northwestern, not Dartmouth, as one of their target schools. Dartmouth is one of the Ivies but it doesn't really have any forte or well-known programs. Northwestern isn't an Ivy but has top programs in economics, journalism, art history, communication studies, mat sci, management sciences, and chemistry..etc. I'd say their reputation is pretty much a wash.</p>

<p>Oh, I would bet more average street people have heard of Northwestern. Not that it matters much and that got nothing to do with academics. The flip-flop drama from the lax team last year and death of Randy Walker this year has made Northwestern more known than ever. :)</p>

<p>falconeye,</p>

<p>FYI: Northwestern was the national champ for College Fed Challenge two years in a row. I think it shows the undergrad econ program is very strong.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2005/12/challenge.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2005/12/challenge.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Sam,</p>

<p>1) Your arguments are ridiculous. I'll leave it to the readers of this posting to decide whether someone would choose Northwestern Law (not even top 10)over Harvard and Yale Law (1 and 2). My guess, above 95% of those getting into Yale or Harvard Law and NU choose the first two schools. </p>

<p>2) Lazard? Great one BOUTIQUE bank recruits at NU and not Dartmouth. BUT all 6/7 "prestige banks" like Goldman and Lehman recruit at Dartmouth yet only 4/7 recruit at Northwestern. Once again, a totally flawed argument.</p>

<p>3) Great econ? Unless you are in the group of 500 or so people pursuing a PhD then this stat is irrelevant. Its grad placement that matter as well as recruiting, not graduate econ dept ranks. If that's the case a Michigan econ degree is better than a Yale econ degree, and guess what...its not.</p>

<p>In the end firms want to say "my consultants went to X prestige school," and more top firms and grad schools as well as every ranking out there thinks Dartmouth has a SLIGHTLY better reputation at the undergraduate level than Northwestern.</p>

<p>I must emphasize the slightly when I bring up reputation, truthfully both are excellent schools and we're spliiting hairs.</p>

<p>slipper,</p>

<p>Let me point this out one more time--the list does not show #applicants vs #admits vs GPA. The list DOES NOT say an applicant with 3.8 GPA and 170 LSAT from Dartmouth is looked more favorably than one with the same stats from Northwestern! I am surprised it is that difficult for you to understand. </p>

<p>I never said people would choose Northwestern over Harvard when admitted to both. I said the location influences people's list of schools to apply. For example, my friends who are interested in MBA and living in LA are all applying to UCLA and USC. They have other more prestigious schools on their list-- some may have Wharton, some may have Stanford, and some may have MIT (likely more having Stanford because of location). But not all of them will have the same reach school(s)! In case they don't get into those, they will be happy to stay local. But suppose all the top-5 schools were in California, I can imagine their list would look more similar. I can imagine many Northwestern grads applying to law schools would have UChicago/Northwestern/and possibly Michigan on their list. With three already on their list, less are gonna put Yale AND Harvard AND Stanford on their list at the same time. Dartmouth grads, all the other hand, are in more natural position to put Harvard AND Yale on their list. </p>

<p>Please provide link or source of that 6/7 and 4/7. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=2805026#post2805026%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=2805026#post2805026&lt;/a>
Someone was just told by his friend working at UBS that Northwestern econ grads are hired in big numbers. I mentioned NU won <em>College</em> Fed Challenge twice in row, not just grad econ program; you can deny the connection between grad and undergrad programs all you want.</p>

<p>
[quote]
more top firms and grad schools as well as every ranking out there thinks Dartmouth has a SLIGHTLY better reputation at the undergraduate level than Northwestern.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Have you ever read Gourman?<br>
1997 ranking:
Northwestern: 16th
Dartmouth: 22nd</p>

<p>What about THES world university ranking (2005)?
<a href="http://www.alnaja7.org/success/Education/times_world_ranking_2005.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.alnaja7.org/success/Education/times_world_ranking_2005.pdf&lt;/a>
Northwestern: 23th (US), 46th (World)
Dartmouth: 38th (US), 117th (World)</p>

<p>You can discredit both of them all you want. ;) </p>

<p>US News assigns the SAME peer assessment score for both. The other rankings you put measure selectivity, NOT reputation.</p>

<p>First, I'm not a fan of Dartmouth or Northwestern nor do I dislike either school.</p>

<p>THES makes no sense from any perspective and Gourman's is biased towards research universities and nine years old (which is a nice counterbalance, actually, as Princeton Review and USNews favor small, rich schools like Dartmouth.) The Chinese ranking also puts Northwestern over Dartmouth. USNews </p>

<p>If the OP is considering grad school in econ (I assume he isn't):
Recs are very important in econ grad admissions. It is a huge advantage to go to a school with a great grad program so you can get these recs (if you aren't good enough to attract their attention in undergrad, econ grad school is pretty unrealistic. It is VERY difficult to get into). You'd be in a great position to get admitted to NU's grad school. The UChicago profs would also almost certainly take more seriously recs from NU's department than Dartmouth's.</p>

<p>If the OP is not considering grad school in econ:
All other things being equal, would you rather live in Chicagoland or on the East Coast? An econ degree from either school will, if you're a top student, get you a fantastic job. Each probably carries more weight in its own region, especially with regional good-ol'-boy networks. </p>

<p>Prestige:
Dartmouth has a bit more prestige as the term is usually meant on these boards due to its greater selectivity. Almost no one has ever heard of it. Far more people will be impressed if you go to NU.</p>

<p>The two schools are extremely different. You'd have to pay me to go to Dartmouth (not financial aid, substantial cash payments beyond the cost of the school). A great many people are the other way around. I find it hard to believe that this is actually a difficult choice. Could you provide a bit more info about what factors you're concerned with?</p>

<p>slipper, </p>

<p>As I said earlier, you have to have #applicants vs #admits vs GPA for at least multiple years to do comparison. You have none of those. If you say the list shows Dartmouth has better placement, you pretty much assume that the number of applicants from both schools to HY are the same and that their GPA/LSAT profiles are similar for both schools. Therefore, it's the name that makes the difference. LOL!</p>

<p>Berkeley's prelaw placement stats:
<a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/lawStats.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/lawStats.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Tuft's prelaw placement stats:
<a href="http://studentservices.tufts.edu/sspdf/PreLegalHandbook.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://studentservices.tufts.edu/sspdf/PreLegalHandbook.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cornell's prelaw placement stats:
<a href="http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/Law/PrelawGuide0506.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/Law/PrelawGuide0506.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<ol>
<li><p>Even Berkeley is 4x bigger, the number of prelaws are roughly the same for both schools (246 for Tufts vs 259 for Berkeley for 2005)!!! Assume anything about the number of applicants is baseless.</p></li>
<li><p>While the number of prelaws are roughly the same, Berkeley has significantly more prelaws applying to UCLA, Berkeley, and Stanford than Tufts. A lot more Cornellians apply to NYU, Columbia, Cornell (feeding itself), Georgetown, and even Boston University and Boston College than schools eslewhere. Northwestern and Chicago, more prestigious than the Boston ones, aren't even on their "school with over 120 applicants" list. Don't tell me people wouldn't choose Chicago over Boston! Out of the 250 Berkeley pre-laws, around 60 or so applied to Stanford; however, out of the 700+ Cornellian applicants, less than 120 applied. If geographical location doesn't matter like you suggested, Cornell should have something like 160 or 170 applying to Stanford. Yield has nothing to do with #applicants. I was talking about the latter and said nothing about the former. Yet, you put words into my mouth. The stats suggest geographical location plays a bigger role than you think (you actually implied earlier it played no role, LOL!). Looks like my intuition is on target while yours isn't.</p></li>
<li><p>2/3 of the applicants are actually Cornell alums. This further complicates any comparison. The alums are probably the ones more affected by locations and proximity--circle of friends, family, connections...etc. can be huge factors. </p></li>
<li><p>Berkeley stats fluctuated greatly from one year to the next for HLS admission. In 2004, 12 were accepted to HLS and 9 matriculated but the year before, only 3 were accepted and 2 matriculated! The yield also had wide range--between 40%+ (yes, people do turn down Harvard) to 90%. If people want to judge Berkeley based on HLS enrollment, I guess they can get pretty different ideas about it, depending on what year they look at. But it's still the same Berkeley!</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I can probably find a lot more but I think that's enough to make my point. :)</p>

<p>I was actually considering Dartmouth (you may, in fact, stumble upon some of my panicked questions in the Dartmouth forum), but I realized that I wanted to be in a suburban environment. Northwestern is really the best of both worlds, in that sense, because it has a nice, grassy, tree-lined campus, but you also have the advantages of Chicago close by if you so choose.</p>

<p>I'm applying to both Dartmouth and Northwestern. Dartmouth was my first pick for a LONG time... but alas, I live on Chicago's north shore, and took classes at Northwestern this summer, and liked it. It made me realize what options living in the city gives a student... and how amazing Chicago is.</p>

<p>The feeder rankings (WSJ) are actually more valid than you think, as it uses 15 schools and proportions, you'll see to professional schools Dartmouth fairs much better than NU</p>

<p>However, this can be because more Dmouth kids aim for professional school right of the bat, but I mean Dartmouth does very stronlgy in it regardless.</p>

<p>Dartmouth's student body is also stronger based on SAT scores and class rank. On the US News ranking its above, and on a number of rankings (Carnegie, WSJ rankings, Laissez Faire) it does better. However, I think the best rankings are the US News, THES, Carnegie (for prestige) and WSJ Rankings. NU wins in THES and I think Carnegie, whereas Dartmouth wins in US News and WSJ. </p>

<p>If you are going into undergrad already aiming for grad school in Econ, I'd look closely at the specific departments and for courses, as well as requirements for a degree and professors in your areas of interests. Because NU is much bigger and has a great grad program that would make NU the better choice solely for trying to get good grad school preparation.</p>

<p>If you are looking for just the best overall school academically, and would be happy doing Econ at either Dmouth or NU and just want the strongest student body surrounding you, I'd go Dartmouth. Same with going to professional school (suppose you want biz school instead of grad school). </p>

<p>If you need a specific type of social life, Dartmouth has more drinking and is less intertwined in the city. NU is more quirky and doesn't seem to booze as hard. Also, its not as isolated. So I can't say which one of these would be better for that, as every school is unique.</p>

<p>Have you noticed that THES doesn't make any sense from any perspective?</p>

<p>The WSJ ranking is flawed and biased... :rolleyes:</p>

<p>THES is a ranking of Universities, not undergrad. UCSF is ranked in the top 10 and doesn't even have an undergrad school. I would surely choose Northwestern Law over Dartmouth Law since Dartmouth doesn't have these schools!</p>

<p>Dartmouth wins at the undergrad level, Northwestern is a great undergrad school and a university with great programs but its not as strong as Dartmouth for undergrads.</p>

<p>Once again, if THES and graduate programs matter then Michigan is better than Northwestern, and I would argue strongly that that isn't the case.</p>

<p>Just b/c you're transferring, I'd take Dartmouth. Northwestern doesn't guarantee housing and I believe that's a pretty huge deal if you don't know anyone at the school. Like others have mentioned, Dartmouth is known for being very good to its transfer students. Overall, if you tell someone you went to Dartmouth or Northwestern the average person will probably be more impressed by NU b/c of sports :rolleyes:</p>

<p>You can't go wrong either way, but just b/c you're considering TRANSFERRING I'd say Dartmouth.</p>

<p>I agree with Brand, forget the prestige issues: Dartmouth is a better place to transfer.</p>

<p>I just want to say that I'm transferring into NU this year and it's really been an easy process. They told me everyone that wanted housing got it, they had a large amount of singles and doubles available this year too. I got my first choice, which was in a hall that is just for transfer students too, which is great since everyone will be looking to meet people in there. Also, the new student week is seperated between frosh and transfers, which was not the case in the school I was transferring from. I don't know much about Dartmouth so I'm not going to say NU was better or anything silly like that. I just wanted to say that the transfer process with NU was very easy and from what I can figure out, they are very receptive to transfer students. The mood of this thread seemed to be that NU was a bad place to transfer to and I just wanted to say what I've experience so far, which is the opposite.</p>

<p>THES is a nonsensical ranking of universities too. Duke > Chicago at the graduate level? That's completely insane.</p>

<p>Also, the British universities have a suspiciously strong showing in the THES. LSE is NOT the second best university for social sciences in the world, period.</p>