I definitely do not want to “out” the school. Though I am very disappointed I do understand not every kid that matriculates there has or will come away with the same experience. He has so many great characteristics so I am hopeful that he will turn things around at some point. I guess besides his estrangement from us he just does not seem happy at all. Which as a parent is really what you hope your kids will gain upon completing a huge milestone like college graduation.
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Our oldest learned in a third grade class about the so called “ovarian lottery” They played a game where kids got paper and threw it into a basket. Close ones were supposedly privileged and had a lifetime advantage. They were going to succeed in life. Others not. Thing was, this public school was in a median home value area of 1MM plus. The two teachers who were most belligerent were both brought up in two very expensive towns. I doubt they observed the hypocrisy.
As parents this raised our awareness level. We ultimately left that school system but have spoken to our kids about our own ethos. Our kids, know in fact they were born under a lucky star. They’ve seen it. But that does not mean that they are going to let someone label them and make them play a part in some group guilt. Sadly, it’s hard for kids to stand up to peer pressure. We hope we’ve given them the mental resources to think for themselves. At some point, they’ll leave the nest and then we’ll see. We worry more about something like this happening with one of our kids than another.
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I think what might be happening — and I could be way off base — is that he feels bad about how he used to be in high school. Even though mom and dad may say he was a great kid and looking out for others, etc, he may feel like he was not aware of his privilege to the degree he is now. And he wants to now distance himself from his former self and that means somewhat distancing himself from his family.
It’s not going to help if mom and dad keep talking about how he used to be so nice when he was in high school (even if that’s how you really see it) because that’s not how he sees it. You would be contradicting his perception of himself. Some people aren’t able to be very objective about themselves (my oldest is like this) and some people tend to ruminate on things they have done in the past which is not good for their mental health. And high school is a cringe-worthy time to look back on for a young adult who has just graduated college. So resist the urge to bring up how he used to be. Doing that would not go over well.
What I try to do with my kids is just meet them where they are at as best I can w/o getting into an argument. I can’t always go all the way to their position if it’s not something that I believe, but I try not to argue about it and try to find a middle ground where I can express my support and unconditional love. It’s hard. We have had a lot of struggles with our oldest but we’re keeping the doors open even if we don’t see eye to eye on everything.
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What the OP says is real, and it’s no joke. Just to clarify, it’s not the ideological politics that really concerned us. It was how extreme they were becoming on social media during the pandemic, and how quickly it was spreading. You have isolated kids developing clinical depression and taking out their frustrations on TikTok and Snapchat. Pretty soon you have “Save the Planet” turning into “Resist and sabotage evil religious parents at all costs.”
And that’s exactly what happened. So, we shut off her phone, and kept the lines open to the good friends she was isolating herself from. We had to block contact with the toxic people in her life. Now that she’s back to a normal teenage life, high school is like group therapy. All her friends went through similar stuff during the pandemic.
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The OP’s son is an adult, though, not a child. Not sure how relevant this anecdote is. Many of us have kids who got into stuff in high school that wasn’t the best, but we are talking about a grown man now.
Yes, the OP’s kid may be grown now, but the problem is still the same. Hopefully knowing this can help prevent a lot of problems as kids get older.
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I really don’t think the problem is the same. BTDT in high school. Have an almost 21 year old now. It’s night and day different. You can’t “shut off her phone” or “block access” to friends you don’t approve of with someone who is an adult.
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Another interesting aspect of my personal life that comes to mind with this thread is my 10th grade year of high school. My dad and I went to FL to live with my grandmother because my grandfather had just passed away and dad wanted to help her adjust to life without him. I grew up in NY with a great public school system. Where we were in FL was not up to my dad’s standards, but luckily for me, I was able to test and get accepted into a nice private school there with a scholarship so we didn’t have to pay anything. I’ve always suspected that scholarship came from one of my grandmother’s wealthy friends, but it could have been the school, I don’t know.
Regardless, I was totally on par educationally with the others at that school - pretty near the top actually, but financially it was a different world. The kids there had money and spent it like kids do, on clothing, cars, whatever. I wore clothes from the church thrift shop where my grandma worked. The first day of class kids were discussing the summer and what they had done. One’s sister had gotten married. The parents had rented a cruise ship (the whole ship) for the wedding, the couple went to a private island for their honeymoon - helicoptered off the ship - and the rest of the guests came back from Europe in chartered planes. To say that I felt like I didn’t belong was an understatement.
But my academics and kids being kids meant I found friends. One time during lunch as we were exchanging stories one lad asked me how much my dad made. Dad had actually told me - he confided in me a bit. He earned 18K working for IBM helping them introduce computers into schools. When I told my lunch group that the kid was stunned. He said, “We have a painting in our living room that cost more than that!”
Afterward, the kids were great TBH. When we went somewhere, they always paid for me. When we ordered out lunch (common on Fridays at this school), they paid. I felt on par with them in everything except the finances. I went to their houses (some oceanfront) for studying and fun, but never once invited them to my grandmother’s. I worked in the riding stable where some kept their horses. Working there allowed me to keep my horse for free, but there wasn’t any money for showing. They had a tailor come to fit them for show clothes and one gal told her mom, “I don’t think Creekland’s been measured yet,” and the mom told her, “I don’t think Creekland shows.” Back home I did (where entry fees were $5/class), but in their world I certainly couldn’t afford it. I merely schooled their expensive ponies for the younger kids.
Through it all I realized most of the kids were awesome (some snubbed me, of course), but what they were raised with was just so different from my everyday life (daughter of a school teacher back in NY). They had no clue. It was like I was an exchange student to them, but nothing I did or experienced changed their lives aside from paying for my expenses so I could do things with them.
And I’m white, plus wasn’t among the poor (free lunch) crowd that’s out there too. There’s certainly a bigger divide in the US.
These classes that are being disdained can be used to teach kids a lot about others. It’s totally wrong to make anyone ashamed of who they are, but without experiencing the lives of others, how is one supposed to relate to something they only know about from afar?
My older two did service projects to graduate from high school. It was required at that time in our school district. They both chose to have a “Charity Dinner” helping Haiti (shortly after Haiti’s bad earthquake). For the dinner, each table had 10 seats. 1 person - at random - got a private waiter with a terrific dinner served in courses. 3 people got rice, beans, veggies, and bread for a full plate and shared a waiter. 6 got some rice and beans put in front of them with no waiter interaction other than putting the food there. My kids explained that this is similar to what happens in places like Haiti (vs the US).
There was no cost to the dinner and it came with a slideshow complete with statistics and such that the boys put together. They made a lot of money that night - all donated. Quite a few of the attendees told the kids they stopped for dinner on the way home, but were incredibly glad for the “lesson” as “they had no idea.” More than one has been donating to the organization since.
One only knows what they grow up with. It’s not wrong trying to truly teach the experiences others have.
'Tis wrong to just disdain the other side though, whether that’s the top or bottom. Kids have no choice which situation they’re born into and the starting point to adulthood is nowhere near the same pending what one draws in the lottery. There’s nothing wrong with trying to level it out a little.
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I understand his writing and agree with him especially within the context in which he was writing it the 1960s south. Since he has passed I cannot presume to know what his feelings would be concerning the class at this school and how it would be reconciled with his beliefs and goals at the time. The quote I referenced had an impact on a lot of people black and white. To me the class work seems to be in violation of the goals of Dr. King. If you perceive me wrong then that’s ok. However, the class did seem to have a negative impact on the OPs son and I believe did nothing to solve the problem of inequality in our country and made race, gender etc. the qualifying consideration in determining ones character.
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I didn’t sense any anger in @MWolf 's post–rather, a well argued and well informed position.
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@Creekland, there is a lot of wisdom in what you wrote.
Without being present for any of the parent-son conversations, it is difficult to tell if this son truly feels shame and guilt and is projecting it onto his family of origin or was unsuccessfully trying to articulate a newfound understanding of what “privilege” means to him and grew frustrated.
Along the lines of your experience, I invite those interested to look at a Twitter thread posted by a Wharton graduate who describes the lack of awareness of many of her classmates at Penn — she goes by @jasminericegirl
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Time to review this thread. Lots of flagged posts. I’m closing temporarily.
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The OP is right to be concerned about her son, but given the circumstances and the inability for anyone here to provide real solutions, the issue is beyond the scope of our abilities. Therefore, I am not reopening the thread.
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