<p>Which is a better school in all areas? Academically? Socially? Geographically? Everything.</p>
<p>MICHIGAN. Next question? ;-)</p>
<p>ND>umichigan.</p>
<p>are you Catholic?</p>
<p>Indeed, but I’m not applying to Michigan, just have a history teacher who attended Michigan and I’m a Notre Dame fan/applicant and we constantly bash the others’ school and say ours is better.</p>
<p>“Better” is in the eye of the beholder! In this case, to you, Notre Dame is better than Michigan while to your history teacher, Michigan is better. There is much to be said for both. But there is one way in which Michigan is clearly better than Notre Dame: 23-15-1! ;)</p>
<p>What is 23-15-1?</p>
<p>^^^^Football record between the two schools.</p>
<p>Everything, ND is better.</p>
<p>Michigan and Ann Arbor >>>> Notre Dame and South Bend</p>
<p>Right. Football.</p>
<p>Notre Dame has a gorgeous campus, small classes taught by professors rather than T.A.s, and very good advising.</p>
<p>chocoholic, the same can be said of Michigan. Only 3% of classes at Michigan are taught by TAs, virtually all of them 100-level classes. At Notre Dame, 55% of classes have fewer than 20 students compared to 48% at Michigan while 10% of classes have over 50 students, compared to 16% at Michigan. I do not think one needs to look at those criteria while choosing between those two schools. I think campus culture and environment should be the determining factor. And if advising were better at Notre Dame, you would expect a higher percentage of Notre Dame students to enroll into top graduate programs, and yet that is not the case.</p>
<p>Notre Dame admits a stronger and more geographically diverse undergraduate student body than Michigan. It also has more financial resources per capita, smaller class sizes, a better student to faculty ratio, superior advising and a better reputation among graduate schools.</p>
<p>Here are the common data sets between the two schools:
<a href=“U-M Office of the VPIT-CIO | Office of the VPIT-CIO | University of Michigan”>Office of Budget and Planning;
<a href=“https://www3.nd.edu/~instres/CDS/CDS_2010-2011.pdf[/url]”>https://www3.nd.edu/~instres/CDS/CDS_2010-2011.pdf</a></p>
<p>
I think that’s a pretty noticeable difference in class sizes, wouldn’t you say? A higher pecentage of Notre Dame grads are enrolling into top graduate programs.</p>
<p>My father’s friend graduated from Vandy Med and they publish their “Undergraduate Institutions Represented” online on their admissions site.</p>
<p><a href=“https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/admissions/undergraduate-schools-represented[/url]”>https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/admissions/undergraduate-schools-represented</a></p>
<p>There are 21 Notre Dame alums, more than any other school besides Vandy itself, at the medical school as supposed to 2 Michigan grads. Vanderbilt is a top 20 medical school to boot.</p>
<p>
Michigan has a top 10 medical school. Guess how many Michigan grads are admitted compared to Notre Dame’s?</p>
<p>
If “graduate=PhD” programs, you are obviously wrong. Michigan has the inherent advantage of having many top 10 graduate programs across the board. If “graduate=MD/Law/MBA”, you will have to prove it.</p>
<p>GoBlue,</p>
<p>That’s an unfair comparison since Michigan Med is obviously going to favor its own undergrads. I provided a third-party top medical school as a basis of comparison because of my disposition to fairness.</p>
<p>If you consider that Notre Dame has a significantly smaller undergraduate population, the success of its graduates is even more impressive.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf[/url]”>http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf</a>
Michigan barely edges out Notre Dame here and that’s with the help of Michigan Law to boost its graduates’ placement.</p>
<p>According to WSJ,</p>
<p>But what about state schools? Parents have always fretted over whether sending kids to less-expensive schools would hurt their postgraduate chances. According to our survey, only Michigan made the top 30, and that’s with the help of Michigan Law, one of our 15 elites, taking more than five dozen Wolverines in this fall’s class. Among the other well-known names, Virginia was 33, Berkeley came in at 41 and UCLA was 61. “They seem a little reluctant to visit,” says advisor Glenn Cummings at the University of Virginia, who says three top law schools he invited to come meet students this year never got back to him.</p>
<p>It’s pretty arbitrary that they chose Michigan Law to be honest instead of Stanford or NYU which are clearly better. According to this quote, over 60 Michigan students went to Michigan Law that year and if you subtract those, UM would not make the top 50 even.</p>
<p>Public schools in the country are overrated with regards to quality of undergraduate education and graduate school admissions officers know this.</p>
<p>“Public schools in the country are overrated with regards to quality of undergraduate education and graduate school admissions officers know this.”</p>
<p>Is that why they give Cal a rating of 4.7/5.0, Michigan a rating of 4.5/5.0 and UVa a rating of 4.3/5.0? I would say that public universities are very highly regarded in academic circles.</p>
<p>Goldenboy, it is not unfair to include Michigan Law and Michigan Medical schools. Both are ranked very high (definitely top 10) and should be included. Until 1990, Michigan Law was ranked anywhere between #1 and #3 in the nation. Even today, Michigan Law’s academic reputation is among the highest. According to the latest USNWR, Michigan Law was ranked #7 in the nation, with the fifth highest reputational score, a tiny notch below Columbia, tied with Chicago and a tiny notch above NYU and UVa. Michigan Medical was ranked #10 with the 8th highest reputational score. Why should Michigan apologize for having excellent academic programs?</p>
<p>Michigan Law School (currently enrolled):
158 Michigan alums
19 Notre Dame alums</p>
<p>Michigan Medical School (currently enrolled):
182 Michigan alums
15 Notre Dame alums</p>
<p>And when you investigate other top Medical and Law schools (certainly ones that are considered superior to Vanderbilt), you will typically see Michigan hold an advantage over Notre Dame. For example:</p>
<p>Yale Law School (currently enrolled)
8 Michigan alums
1 Notre Dame alum</p>
<p>Chicago Law School (currently enrolled)
17 Notre Dame alums
15 Michigan alums</p>
<p>Virginia Law school (class of 2014)
5 Michigan alums
1 Notre Dame alum</p>
<p>Johns Hopkins Medical school (currently enrolled)
13 Michigan alums
7 Notre Dame alums</p>
<p>WUSTL Medical school (since 1995)
48 Michigan alums
26 Notre Dame alums</p>
<p>When looking at the numbers above, one must take into account that ND has about 8,400 undergraduates while MI has over 26,200 undergraduates.
And I’d vote for ND hands down in terms of education. Atmosphere is an individual choice.</p>
<p>“And I’d vote for ND hands down in terms of education.”</p>
<p>Because…</p>
<p>happy1, I don’t see how Michigan being three times larger than Notre Dame justifies the 8:1 placement advantage that it enjoys over Notre Dame at Michigan Law, Yale Law and Michigan medical or the 5:1 advantage at UVa Law. Even the 2:1 advantage Michigan enjoys over Notre Dame at JHU and WUSTL Medical schools does not point to Notre Dame being much better than Michigan, which is what pro-Notre Dame posters (such as yourself) on this thread are trying to say.</p>
<p>
ND is recognized by USNWR for its commitment to undergraduate teaching this year while Michigan is not.</p>
<p>[Best</a> Undergraduate Teaching | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching/spp+50/page+2]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching/spp+50/page+2)</p>
<p>High school counselors from America’s best high schools also rate Notre Dame much higher for the quality of undergraduate education offered than Michigan.</p>
<p>[High</a> School Counselor Rankings | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor]High”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor)</p>
<p>Notre Dame: 4.6
Michigan: 4.3</p>
<p>These are experts in the field of education we are talking about and they all agree that ND>Michigan at the undergraduate level.</p>