<p>Does anybody (navy2010;)) know how many plebes have decided to pursue other dreams and not continue at the academy?</p>
<p>The total attrition for the Class of 2012 was something like ...23?</p>
<p>what is attrition usually from the entire plebe year?</p>
<p>I believe the overall attrition (4 yrs) now stands around 10-12%. During plebe summer and most of plebe year, most mids leave voluntarily, typically because they decide/realize USNA is not where they want to be. Starting after first semester -- and especially at the end of plebe year -- I would estimate that most leave "involuntarily" -- usually for academic reasons. There are some who decide not to make the commitment after youngster year, but that number is typically very small. </p>
<p>I'm not sure what the plebe year total is, but I would guess around 5%. This is only an educated guess -- someone may have actual numbers. Also numbers fluctuate year to year and the general trend has been less attrition over the past decade.</p>
<p>'Dant said that this Plebe Summer had the lowest attrition ever.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>Some people interpret that to mean that standards are easier. I prefer to believe that USNA is doing a better job of selecting candidates who are likely to succeed.</p>
<p>It is my understanding that, to date, the class of 2012 has lost 23 members as of PPW. Granted, plebe summer still has 48 hours to go, but looks like that will be the number.
[quote]
'Dant said that this Plebe Summer had the lowest attrition ever.
[/quote]
actually, 23 is tied with the class of 2010, which also lost 23 over the course of plebe summer. Again, still 48 hours to go- but with most plebes now having access to IMs and emails, life is good!!!! :)</p>
<p>(now don't be getting all excited.... they are still plebes afterall, and reform is just 24 hours away for the 1C's, and 48hrs for the rest of the Brigade! ;) )</p>
<p>Congrats to the Class of 2012 as Plebe Summer will soon be history! Now the real challenge starts!</p>
<p>I think the 'Dant was quoting percentages. Perhaps this class had more to start with. I'm just quoting the superintendant.</p>
<p>The number quoted was correct- an actual number, not a percentage. Then again, the number is based on what amounts to a shortened plebe summer- prior to the class of 2012, the training was longer by at least another week-plus. </p>
<p>And yes, the class of 2012 started with more. If you ask some of the firsties that detailed plebe summer, they have dubbed it "Plebe Lite," and along with the shortened training, may have attributed to the low attrition. I will leave it to you fine folks to toss that one around, but it looks like the Class of 2011 will truly be able to lay claim that they had the "last real plebe summer!" ;) </p>
<p>In the end, lets be thankful that the vast majority made their way through plebe summer- short as it was- and fair winds to those that decided this was not for them.
As already mentioned, the real challenge lies before them- in a few short weeks the class of 2012 will come to the realization that plebe summer was the easy part. The numbers I have learned to focus on are the number that graduate and accept that commission- in the end, it's the only number that counts.</p>
<p>Those numbers are very low, indeed. Do they include medical turn backs as well as those who just wanted to leave? From looking at other SA sites, there were many just for medical reasons.</p>
<p>ZANERDUDE09
You had asked about attrition during Plebe Year;
Class of 2011 had 1,202 at I Day, their class size was
1,155 at the end of 1st Semester
1,142 at the end of 2nd Semester.<br>
I do not recall the exact number at the end of Plebe Summer, but I believe that they lost around 28-30.</p>
<p>I have heard the term "medical turnback" used a lot more for the other SAs than for USNA. I saw many Plebes on crutches, or with casts/slings of various types during PPW. Does anyone know if there is a difference in policy between the SAs as to how severe an injury must be to require a medical turnback?</p>
<p>most of the medical turnbacks happen right on I-Day- kids that show up with disqualifiers (ie: color blindness) that were undisclosed, undetected or otherwise missed.</p>
<p>From there, it depends on the extent of the injury. If it is bad enough that it will prevent a kid from participating in plebe summer activites- and occurring early enough in the process, kids can be turned back to the following year. Most summer injuries are sprains and strains- although more significant injuries have happened-honestly, I don't know where the line gets drawn with the latter- the kids I know that had more serious injuries happened at the final week or plebe summer- and after the academic year started- both had surgical repairs, and both were retained- but have also heard of fractures early on in plebe summer where the plebe was put back at NAPS and reported back the following year-</p>
<p>I wonder if the nature of the summer training at the different service academies accounts for the number of medical turn-backs. What comes immediately to mind is the amount of swimming, sailing and YP rotations at USNA that takes kids out of the long marching and runs that occur at USMA- could be totally wrong on this, but would seem logical that there are less injuries associated with water activites than ones that keep the stress on legs, knees and ankles!</p>
<p>as for attrition-
just keep in mind seperation is a 2-way street- meaning you may be asked to leave, or you may choose to leave. This is not for everyone, and some kids only come to realize that after the fact- and even some as late as the start of their 2C year. </p>
<p>In the end, what counts is the attrition over the 4 years. It is my understanding plebe summer and plebe year account for most, with the next bump at the 2 for 7 signing. From there, most attrition comes down to academics, followed by honor offenses or silly mistakes- drinking is a big one- and those can happen as late as hours before you take that walk down the stadium steps at commissioning. The struggle does not end at plebe summer- actually, it is just the start. Academics are a big part of it- but so are the PRTs, the class rankings, the aptitude for commissioning, etc..... all count, all important.</p>
<p>We had a tour last Monday, August 11 and the tour guide said as of then they had only lost 12 plebes. I thought 12 was ridiculously low for plebe summer.</p>
<p>I never thought that 23 was a percentage. It is obvious an actual number..there is no way that 23% would have left already. I'm just saying that 2010 and 2012 both losing 23 plebes is not equal when considering the percentage it represents.
I don't know why you insist that training was a week plus less. They started less than a week later than originally scheduled. I day has been in July before and will be again soon. To call this plebe summer Plebe Lite is insulting. If they got same training done in less days, does that make it easier? There was no field trip day to D.C. Plebe summer training did not end with PPW. My son's company officer described a lot more training that was going to be done after PPW. That would make 6 weeks of training. Maybe leadership has made training more effecient and less wasteful.</p>
<p>Having served in the military and experienced military training, I can see how it is a shock to many people. I bet it is hard for some to make that decision to go home. Each year, the new crop has the benefit of more information from forums such as these. Many plebes went into this summer with a good idea of what happens. Maybe that has something to do with record low attrition.</p>
<p>Plebe Lite or Last Real Plebe Class is all rellative. Everyone thinks that their basic training or summer training was the worst ever. They all did their best and completed the evolutions as presented. Congratulations to all the class of 2012. You have come through the crucible and your journey has just begun. Plebe AC year may be harder for many of you than Plebe Summer. Just remember that everyone in the Brigade has been through the same thing and don't be afraid to ask for help or advice if you need it. Upperclass are not the fire breathing dragons they appear to be.</p>
<p>Bottom line: The numbers do not matter. Those who are still there will not start the academic year on Wednesday and continue their training. Those that left have done so for various reasons. It does not get any easier academic year. The majority of the 4.0 students will find the academic year taxing and their grades will be lower than they have ever seen. Make sure you support them as they move on, offer encouragement and don't question why their grades are not as high as high school. Remember, this is NOT high school. Congrats to all the plebes that are continuing.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>As they say. Great minds think alike.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't know why you insist that training was a week plus less. They started less than a week later than originally scheduled. I day has been in July before and will be again soon. To call this plebe summer Plebe Lite is insulting. If they got same training done in less days, does that make it easier? There was no field trip day to D.C. Plebe summer training did not end with PPW. My son's company officer described a lot more training that was going to be done after PPW. That would make 6 weeks of training. Maybe leadership has made training more effecient and less wasteful.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>With all due respect-</p>
<p>I am not insisting on anything. I-Day is usually the last week of June- for the class of 2012 it was pushed back to July 2. </p>
<p>The "adjustments" made for the "shortened plebe summer" was presented by the admissions board when reporting on the stats of the plebes and the attrition rate over plebe summer at the mid-way point- the admissions board used week 3 for the class of 2012, and week 4 for the classes of 2011 and 2010. Obviously the admissions office is well aware of the "abbreviated schedule" (their words, not mine) when reporting on the stats. Again, the concern is that there would not be enough time to get the plebes where they need to be- by those needing to get them there. I trust they will accomplish the mission- those getting trained by those responsible to get them there.</p>
<p>Concerning "plebe lite," it was not meant to insult. Actually, 'plebe lite' is the term coined by the detailers in referring to this year's plebe summer. It was obvious they, too, were concerned with completing the necessary training in time for reform- not only because of the shortened schedule, but in part with the new regs and constraints placed on them as to how to do the training. What you have to remember is that the firsties will be judged on how well they did when the Brigade reforms- and most will use the performance at the first p'rade on Sunday as the litmus test, and their performance when they fall into their companies. </p>
<p>As far as I am aware, plebe summer has never ended with PPW, at least it has not been so for the last several years. Plebe summer has, and continues to end, with the reform of the Brigade- PPW usually falls on the weekend prior. Thus the training does not stop, the training rotations continue, and life goes on. </p>
<p>Concerning the attrition rate:
It is not a "record low attrition," much as I hate to bust your bubble. It might be a record low for the current administration- but then you are talking about just 2 summers- and if you compare 2011 to 2012, there was a decline- not so much because 2012 was unusually "low", but because 2011 was unusually "high." Truth be told, there was much discussion concerning the "low attrition rate" by a good handful of alumni - specifically, that the "lightened training" would not properly "vet" the incoming class- and better to "lose them now" then suffer it later. </p>
<p>Anyway- I diverge. The lowest attrition rate for plebe summer stands at less than 20- and not to draw additional attention to that class, it was also the class posting the hightest "loss" by Herndon. So in the big scheme of things, the summer attrition rate means nothing- it is one hurdle for sure, but the biggest hurdles- and the ones that cause the plebes the most trouble- have yet to come. So lets stop debating as to how many seperated over the course of the summer in some ill attempt to somehow suggest or imply that one class is superior to another- the ONLY number that counts is the number that toss their hat in the air and earn that commission at the end of their 4 years.</p>
<p>As for being better informed with sites like CC- one would hope that would be the case. However, with 39% of the plebes failing their PRT midway through the summer- which WAS a "new record" and one of concern- it would appear those reporting in were not as informed as they shoulda-woulda-coulda been. It will fall to the detailers to make that correction and get the plebes to meet the standard- just as it has been in years past.</p>
<p>And for the record, since you are comparing plebe summer for 2010 and 2012, from I-Day to reform, plebe summer for the class of 2010 was 53 days, compared to 47 days for the Class of 2012. Not quite a week, but close enough. The class of 2011 had 54 days- a full week by my count- but who's counting! ;)</p>
<p>Again, whatever floats your boat.<br>
As for me, each day that any Mid decides to climb out of that rack to make it through another day is good for me.</p>
<p>Give it a rest.</p>