<p>For MT programs, it can be hard to estimate actual yield because so many programs use wait lists and quoted numbers of “offers” sometimes don’t tell the whole story because they only count the initial offers, not the total offers made including subsequent offers from the wait list. Wait list offers sometimes continue through June.</p>
<p>Also, given the very small numbers involved, yield can vary substantially year-to-year for almost any given program. This is documented in posts through the years noting unusually small or large classes at various schools as a result of variances in yield year-to-year. Variances in yield can also result in variances in admits year-to-year, as programs try to keep the total number of students in their programs fairly constant.</p>
<p>Another complication in trying to assess yield: some schools vary year-to-year in their approach. Some years they increase their initial admit pool size and try to avoid using a wait list, some years they choose to limit their initial admits and then work down their wait list. </p>
<p>Finally, new faculty members, particularly new, well-known department heads who are very strong at marketing their programs, can cause interest and yields to increase considerably vs. prior years.</p>
<p>Some schools use various forms of a “Priority List” designation, which may be done only informally (verbally) prior to formal offers being extended, in an attempt to maximize their yield.</p>
<p>The yield can and does vary year to year.
Normally Ithaca has a class of 16-18. They typically offer 30-32 spots to yield this number.
This year very few people turned them down.
The class for 2013-14 will be 27. A substantial increase in yield which most likely will result in fewer offers next year.
They are also considering a prescreen this cycle which was previously mentioned in another post.</p>
<p>Alwaysamom, you asked how they can run their program with such small numbers. First, the numbers are multiplied by four, because the numbers we are talking about are for incoming freshman. Also, at most schools the same faculty would be teaching the Acting, Musical Theatre, and other types of theatre majors such as technical theatre and Theatre Arts. MT majors split their time with music teachers and dance teachers, who are also teaching the music majors and dance majors, and teaching electives for students who aren’t majoring in performance.</p>
<p>prodesse, I understand that the number is for incoming freshman. The issue I wonder about is how they can afford the same opportunities to five students in a class that a school with a larger number can. Having only five students in a class, given what the experience of many students I know, including my D, would have limited options in many ways. Even if you approach it from the 20 in the schools position, it is still very limiting, for in class experience, variety of class offerings, scene studies, the number and type of shows you can do in the course of a year, etc. I suppose if all of those students you mentioned are combined in classes, it may be workable but it doesn’t seem that it would be ideal, in my opinion. Five is a very small number, even for the small programs.</p>
<p>Emsdad, your post #21 is a very good analysis/summary of that issue. </p>
<p>AlwaysAMom, I also would think that the array of opportunities in such a small program (five students per year) would not match with a program that is still small but quite a bit larger than that.</p>
<p>In a small program, there’s a lot of individual attention, and most kids are cast in shows regularly. On the other hand, some people respond better to lots of competition and are assertive (or aggressive) enough to get the attention that they need in a bigger school. Some want lots of curricular options, others prefer a more limited, focused program of study. It’s really a matter of what kind of setting you thrive in as a student. Hopefully your son or daughter will end up in a place that feels perfect to them, which is all that matters.</p>
<p>I realize that was a kind of Captain Obvious statement, but I think it’s important not to dismiss smaller programs, as for some people they are the holy grail, and for valid reasons.</p>
<p>Times3, my intention was not to dismiss smaller programs. There are many smaller programs that provide excellent training and opportunities. My surprise is with a program of only 5 entering students per year. As I said, five is a very small program, even in the context of smaller programs. I haven’t heard of any other school that has such a small entering class. </p>
<p>As an aside, but since you raised the issue, my D never felt that she lacked for individual attention or performance opportunities in her large program. She was never in a class of more than 15 or 16, and I don’t think she ever felt the need to be aggressive.</p>
<p>A program with a class size of 5 would actually not be the smallest program out there. The University of Florida has steadfastly held to an MT class size averaging 4 for many years. UF doesn’t get talked about much here on CC, but they have an MT BFA program, and they keep the total number in the program to 16 (4-5 admits per year).</p>
<p>Five or fifteen, it doesn’t matter - small programs like that are not a money-maker for colleges, they are more of a prestige and “maybe in the future someone will hit it big and donate to us” kind of program. If you speak to the Dean of any small program (doesn’t matter if it’s science, language, or theatre) he/she will tell you that they are often fighting to keep the program alive and viable.</p>
<p>As many have said it’s all about fit. During the audition process my D decided she liked the idea of a smaller program, mainly because of the opportunity to perform in main stage shows on a consistent basis. While most MT programs are small in nature, when you’re in a school that admits fewer students, you are getting the opportunity to perform a lot. You still perform in the larger programs in class and student directed shows, so it comes down to what you want out of the program. Many programs account for this by not allowing you to audition your freshman year and some even your sophmore year. After researching and comparing she knew she did not want a school that didn’t let you perform for two years…even one year seemed too long to her.</p>
<p>That is another reason to cast a wide net when auditioning. When they go through this process they often learn alot about themselves and what they thought the wanted in the summer is not what they want in March.</p>
<p>Flossy, I think it is very different for an MFA program than for an undergraduate program. My guess is that the MFA in MT students at SDSU mix in some coursework with acting students too. While not this same field, I have a daughter who just graduated an MS program, and she was the ONLY student in her exact major/degree, but there were several interrelated degree programs and she mixed with these in her department. Her program was highly selective and only accepted two MS students in her year and one declined and so there was just her, but there were also doctoral students and other masters students in related degrees taking the same classes. Her “specialty” differed, but overlapped with the other ones in her department.</p>
<p>broadway95, I don’t agree that in a smaller BFA program that you might get to perform in shows more. Maybe that could be true of mainstage productions. However, typically as a program varies in size, a medium or larger program has many different production and performance opportunities, and thus, not the same number of shows as a tiny program. </p>
<p>Yes, fit is very important when it comes to program size. </p>
<p>I also agree with a point AlwaysAMom made which I think gets confused a lot on this forum and that is that people assume that there is less individual attention in a larger program, but that is not necessarily the case at all. You have to look at classroom size. My kid was in a large program but class size didn’t go over about 15, which would be similar to a program that had just 15 kids per year in the program.</p>
<p>Further, she got to mix with a wider array of students and faculty rather than having approximately one singing, one dancing and one acting teacher for four years too.</p>
<p>Soozievt…I did put mainstage shows in my post along with stating the other programs have opportunities in other areas it depends on what you looking for</p>
<p>I’m not sure what program offers “One singing, one acting, and one dancing teacher for four years.” D is in a very small program (12 actors per year, 24 MT) and they have a wide variety of teachers in all disciplines.</p>
<p>Sorry but the grand sweeping generalizations don’t help people. There is no way anyone can know what every “small” programs has for teachers, so please don’t scare folks off.</p>
<p>If you are interested in a smaller program (and, again, I don’t even know how we are quantifying THAT term), check on their website for the list of faculty, and also call them to find out about any visiting faculty.</p>
<p>I think SoozieVT did not intend to cast any dispersions on small programs. It was likely a poor choice of words and I think she was also referencing something that was posted earlier by somebody else.</p>
<p>I do not know anything about any of the small MT programs but I do have some friends that I made here that I now know outside of CC with crazy-talented kids that are in small programs. I’ve had the pleasure of seeing many of their Facebook posts about the various musicals (and I think they were mainstage) at their respective schools that they have already been in as freshman. In contrast a freshman MT at Tisch is restricted from auditioning for anything and due to the size of the program (which is similar in size to BoCo’s and probably a few others so it isn’t the only big one out there) the competition for any role in a mainstage production is tougher – and in the case of Tisch can include competing against the singing actors that are not directly in the MT track but have the vocal chops to be contenders. So yes… I’d venture that a smaller program probably ups your odds a lot for a mainstage role. If that really matters to you - note to self.</p>
<p>Now personally, I don’t care and nor does my daughter because in the greater scheme of things she would not trade off the additional benefits she feels she is getting from her program or its hot theatre city location just to have a better shot at a mainstage college musical. There are as soozievt suggested, plenty of other opportunities that I suspect are more or less in proportion to the size of the program including many non-musicals. I think what SoozieVT was trying to imply is that the basic math of the number of opportunities can look the same whether X = number of students and Y = number of shows. A small program might be X = 3Y and a large one could be 3X = 9Y. Did I really just that geeky?</p>
<p>If you are really focused on being in a mainstage show starting freshman year (or ever), understand the math and the restrictions of the school you choose. But you might be surprised how fast your priorities change since it awfully hard to know what they really are when you are a senior in HS trying to pick your next move. And from that standpoint, there could be some benefit to a larger program with more options to shift directions but still stay within the field. I tried to suggest something similar in a thread over in the theatre/drama forum where someone was wrestling with the choice of acting or MT and I think really wanting it all. You can’t have it all – at least not in 4 years. So you sort of have to pick a strategy. My theory is that picking the wrong strategy at a small program might be more likely to require a transfer to a new school than it would at a large program. But that fear in itself is NOT a reason to pick a big program if you’d prefer a small one especially if you think you have a clear picture of what you want. </p>
<p>Gosh I am so glad my rising senior son will likely go off to college undeclared. It’s so much easier just to pick a school and let the rest sort itself out. I thought I’d be spending time I CC looking up things for him and never wander over here again but nope… we’re good.</p>
<p>Sorry, I’m just seeing this. I’m not on CC very often. For this fall we (FSU) accepted 15 (BFA and BM combined) and our incoming freshmen class has 7 students. Our goal is a class of 8 each year and we accept about 14-16. This year is a smaller class, but the upper classes all have 9-10 so it does vary a bit. If you have questions, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with me; I’m very happy to help.</p>