<p>Hello - My daughter is interested in a BSN program. I am wondering which is the better type of program - direct entry or screened/gated? We live in Maryland and the only direct entry program is at Stevenson, a small, private school. </p>
<p>This is my first post - I hope it is in the right area of CC! </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Most people would probably recommend direct entry nursing programs. In these programs you are accepted into the nursing program at the college as a freshman and as long as you do OK in your courses you stay in the nursing program. In non-direct entry programs you enter as a “nursing interest” major and have to reapply after your freshman year or in your sophomore year (it varies by college) for entrance into the nursing program at the college (which usually starts in the junior year). Most non-direct entry programs accept more students as freshman than they have spaces for in the junior year. You literally have to compete with your classmates academically for entrance into the nursing program. So there is an element of risk in entering a non-direct admission Nursing Program. On the other hand the competition for admission to direct entry programs is generally more intense. Some applicants apply to both types of programs to at least maximize their chances of being accepted somewhere.</p>
<p>Just FYI there is an excellent direct entry Nursing Program at the Univ. of Delaware if you are interested in direct entry Nursing Programs close to Maryland. There are a number of Maryland students in the Nursing Program there. Hope this info is helpful. Good luck to your D.</p>
<p>Mwallendmd - thank you - that is really helpful. It sounds like a lot of stress on a sophomore - what do they do if they aren’t accepted? My daughter has toured Salisbury, Towson, Hood, and Stevenson in Maryland. The first 2 are definitely screened/gated (not sure of the right terminology). Hood is very small. We toured Univ. of Del last weekend - she really liked it. The nursing advisors and recruiters were very interested in answering a lot of questions. Do you happen to know if Univ of Del. gives merit aid for OOS students? She won’t get need-based aid, but we certainly can’t pony up what a preliminary FAFSA EFC says we can. I am assuming you have a student at Univ. of Del.?</p>
<p>The Univ. of Delaware is unique among all Flagship State Universities in that the majority of students there (2/3rds) are from OOS. As a result they do provide a reasonable amount of financial aid to OOS students (obviously it varies by a students stats-especially SAT/ACT scores). OOS admission to Nursing at UD is extremely competitive (Nursing and Chemical Engineering are the two most competitive majors for admission there). UD gets about 1500 applications for Nursing, accepts around 300 students, and usually ends up with a freshman nursing class of around 135 (around 80-85 are OOS students). While I hesitate to give specific numbers I would estimate that most OOS students would need a minimum GPA of 3.7-3.8 with a minimum SAT score of 1900 just to be marginally competitive for nursing admission (obviously no guarantees). Our D is a UD Nursing Graduate. Hope this info is helpful as well. Good luck to your D.</p>
<p>My daughter was accepted into every nursing program she applied - except U. Del. (she was accepted there as a bio major). Yes, they do offer merit and need based aid for out of state students but they don’t promise to meet 100% of need. My son had high scores and received a merit aid offer a couple years ago that made UDel cheaper than Penn State in-state. </p>
<p>There are a ton of direct entry BSN programs in PA. My daughter is starting at York College of PA, which is close to the Md. border, They have some really nice facilities for the nursing program, plus they are right across the street from a huge hospital complex. They do offer merit aid - as of last year, the scores that were needed were listed on their website. The sticker price for tuition is only 17K a year, which is very reasonable for a private college. It goes up a couple thousand a year for the last 2 years of nursing.</p>
<p>If you’re sure nursing is what she wants, I would certainly look at direct entry programs. Then there is no stress of filling out admission forms, interviews, etc and having to come up with another plan or transferring if she doesn’t get in. And if 1500 apply for 300 admissions, it’s obviously very competitive. Some private schools give very good merit aid so don’t be too quick to write them off if the cost is the drawback of looking at them. My 3 daughters are all in fairly competitive majors, and all 3 went direct entry after we looked into the admission rates and talked to admission counselors.</p>
<p>Another plus for direct entry programs according to D (who will be a Senior this year in Western PA) is that nursing classes can be spread out over 4 years. While the first two years at her 0-4 program were not intense, she said that they still covered a surprising amount of material. Her class bonded, got to know the professors, and also had some nursing experiences in the first two years. As a result, she believes that her class moved quickly into the higher level nursing classes and has been able to focus on clinicals in the last two years. She can’t imagine how other BSN programs cover everything in only two years. </p>
<p>On the other hand, pre-nursing classes could do the same thing at some schools. And if a student is unsure about nursing, a 2+2 program gives the student a longer opportunity to consider other possibilities, and general ed requirements that could point an undecided student in another direction. If a student isn’t admitted into a 0-4 nursing program, a 2+2 program also can give them another chance to apply.</p>
<p>D loved some of the universities that offered 2+2 programs, but ultimately selected a 0-4 program. The 2+2 programs were extremely competitive at the schools she looked at. Not all schools gave preferences to their own students when considering applicants for the upper level program. She didn’t want to risk having to apply to multiple programs, having to qualify for multiple prereqs to increase her chance of admission somewhere, or that she might have to transfer. She was 100% sure about wanting to be a nurse, and also didn’t want any risk about not getting into a nursing program (not to mention the stress from going through another round of applications so soon after college applications). She had heard horror stories about students screwing up in a single freshman prereq that damaged a GPA, the quantity of premed students who realize they can’t get into med school who suddenly compete for spots in nursing, etc. </p>
<p>Ultimately, D gave up the idea of attending a 2+2 university that she loved in favor of certainty about being in a 0-4 nursing program. She did like the nursing program that she selected, so it has worked out ok. She still mentions one school that she had loved with a 2+2 program, but as a possible school for grad school someday instead of undergrad.</p>
<p>Based on my experience with D’s applications, I recommend visiting nursing programs not just taking the basic university tours. There were big differences between the nursing programs, from academic requirements, facilities, the hospitals that they used, levels of competitiveness and friendliness, etc. It was a big surprise to me that D found her perfect “fit” for nursing at a school that was definitely not on the top of her original list.</p>
<p>Wow - thank you all so much for the information! I really appreciate the time you each have taken. What a great community. </p>
<p>My daughter has talked about York. It sounds like the focus should now be on Direct Entry programs. We have toured some OOS schools, but they aren’t Direct Entry, so perhaps those schools should really be lower on her list. Even our state u is a 2+2 - U. of Maryland.</p>
<p>D’s numbers are: GPA - UW 3.77, W 4.39, class ranking 47/390, SAT scores - CR-740, M-620, Writing-650, combined M/CR 2010 (re-taking in Oct). </p>
<p>D needs updated GPA and ranking because, unfortunately she earned a C in an Student Service Learning class (which she took to stay fluent in Spanish, until she takes Post A/P Spanish in her senior year). She didn’t transmit her last 2 assignments correctly over Moodle. She showed me the assignment when she was finished with it and the date stamp on our computer shows it was done in time. All of that to say, the teacher says the assignments weren’t turned in. I don’t yet know if this is going to have a big impact. Her other classes were A/P or Honors.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if your daughter was offered 50% off of tuition merit scholarships at many PA private colleges with direct entry nursing programs. </p>
<p>A nursing program is demanding at every college. Sometimes it is better to not to go a highly competitive college for nursing, because you will be competing with hard core premeds in many classes. At a less competitive college, you have an easier time concentrating on your nursing program, and can spend less time on non-nursing classes.</p>
<p>Generally, the Mason-Dixon line is a dividing line between 2-2 programs and direct entry programs. There are some exceptions, such as UVa is direct entry, but it is the most competitive public university in the US for admission.</p>
<p>Also, some of the larger universities tend to have more of a party atmosphere, particularly for freshmen. That can derail academics for some students.</p>
<p>For nursing, apply early - Sept or early Oct - to maximize your changes for admission and for financial aid. Some nursing programs fill up by December. Some make you put in a deposit by Dec. to hold your nursing spot, or else you only get admitted as a general studies student.</p>
<p>WindowMomto2:</p>
<p>As it does appear that your D might have at least some interest in attending UD, and now that you have provided some information on your D’s scholastic achievements, I now can provide you with some comments (from my perspective) about your D’s possible chances of getting into UD for Nursing. UD primarily looks at M/CR scores in evaluating students for admission. Your D’s combined score here of 1360 is therefore excellent. Your D’s GPA is very good as well. UD actually recalculates applicant GPAs looking only at Major Academic Courses (Math, Sciences, Social Studies, History, English, and Foreign Languages). So the course she got a C in would probably have no bearing in the admission decision. Taking large numbers of AP and honor classes are also in her favor. In fact IMHO she might even have a shot at being accepted to the Honors Program at UD. If this did occur (in general) students accepted to the Honors Program get higher merit financial aid awards. So it might be something she might want to give some consideration to. But you should be aware that UD does not have rolling admissions. All applicants receive admission decisions in early to mid March. If you have any specific questions about UD Nursing please feel free to PM me. Good luck to your D in her college quest.</p>
<p>Thank you again, charlieschm and Mwallenmd - CC is a crash course in finding a nursing program! All of you have helped me so much - a “cut to the chase” approach. And thank you, Mwallenmd, for correcting me on D’s combined score!! I am embarrassed, and clearly a bit frazzled, because she has it written right here for me. I apologize.</p>
<p>D really liked UD. She talked with the nursing advisor and recruiter many times last weekend. Also, very good know that UD recalculates and looks at Major Academic Courses. I didn’t realize that it would be handled in any other way. That C is upsetting to her. The class could have been a silly, easy one but for her SSL project, she created and taught a ‘getting-to-know-you’ Spanish session for a group of 5th graders, tutored 1st and 2nd year students, corrected their papers, and just stayed stayed fluent. I will let her know how UD handles GPAs. That information has made me feel better and it will certainly relieve her of a bit of stress - thank you. </p>
<p>I also appreciate the information on timelines for applications - a little earlier than either of us were thinking. August is going to be an app-happy month!</p>
<p>We will be touring York College tomorrow.</p>
<p>The nursing facilities may not be on the tour. If you contact the admissions office, they may be able to schedule some time there.</p>
<p>Thank you for the tip - we will call on the way there tomorrow. I appreciate that. We also have to try to speak with someone in dining/food services, because my daughter has Celiac disease and has to follow a gluten-free diet. </p>
<p>Any other tips you might have about the York tour? I appreciate your help!</p>
<p>The nursing building is right next to the huge gym. The inside of the nursing bdg. is worth seeing if possible on this trip or a follow-up trip, particularly to see how they use the technology.</p>
<p>There is a great deal of almost new upper class housing. Another big wing is supposed to be built soon. The main freshman dorms are nothing special, but they are supposed to be rehabbed soon (I think next summer). </p>
<p>The student union (where the tour starts) also is supposed to be the next renovation project. </p>
<p>There also is a recreation/bicycle trail right next to campus that continues for another 30 miles.</p>
<p>Window, I attended York so feel free to pm me with questions.</p>
<p>Thank you all again! I have re-read all the responses, especially all the very good reasons for direct entry. Thank you, Illinois Mom, Neonzeus, charlieschm and mwallenmd. I have also learned to navigate CC a little more, and have found a lot of your past posts - very informative.</p>
<p>We had a good tour today of York College. D walked around the nursing school, prior to the tour, and got some information. Nursing staff isn’t available during the summer, but they will reply to e-mails so that is good. We had an average tour guide, who was pretty quiet and it was a very quiet group, but D asked a lot of questions. Dorm room looked older but certainly in good condition and also a decent size. That is great news about the updating of these dorms, charlieschm. Didn’t see a bathroom, but I’ll assume they are fine :). Talked with kitchen managers about Celiac/gluten-free diet needs. We will have to go back for a nursing tour, but D definitely wants to apply. So, at this point, it looks like she will be applying to UDel, York, and probably Stevenson. We are touring University of Maryland tomorrow (just to keep it in our pocket - it’s still a 2+2) and West Virginia University on Wed. Not sure after that, but I know charlieschm had talked about some other PA direct entry programs in his past posts, so we’ll be looking into those as possibilities, too. Thank you all so much for your help!</p>
<p>Fendergirl, I will pm you as soon as I have enough posts - I am still a rookie here on CC! Would love to ask some questions.</p>
<p>If your daughter attends, she might be able to request a certain dorm… Not sure. Codorus is a very small dorm with only about eight rooms per floor, which makes for some very clean bathrooms :)</p>
<p>The original intent was that York College was going to build another wing onto the recently built Northside Commons to house students while they rehabbed the main first year dorms. You can ask about their schedule.</p>
<p>WidowMomto2, your daughter has great stats. Have you considered Penn? I know cost is an issue for you and sticker price at Penn is ridiculous. But I understand the Ivy’s can be very generous. If I were you I would look into the possibility of getting some aid there to see if your daughter should apply. It is direct admit. Also, with those stats she should get into Pitt which you probably know has one of the best nursing programs in the country and is also direct admit. Pitt nursing is very expensive for OOS but Pitt also gives many full tuition scholarships. Don’t know if your daughter’s stats would qualify but you may want to check it out. Finally, one that flies under the radar is Saint John Fisher College in Rochester, NY. They have a relatively new nursing school that was established by $$ donated by Wegman’s and the facilities are soooo nice. They are already building an addition to the nursing school building because the program is growing. It is 2+2 but I imagine your daughter would have zero chance of not getting into the program based on her academic success so far. Fisher is very generous with merit aid. Your daughter would get their top academic scholarship plus an extra scholarship they automatically give to OOS kids. In my personal opinion, Fisher would trump York. Good luck.</p>