<p>That would not work. In college you are paying the tuition. In high school you are completely free of money dues, unless you attend a private high school, although I'm not really sure if the cost is as high as in college.</p>
<p>Thus, the importance of being prepared never really strikes most people. (unless you're a CCer) And indeed, why should it? Preparation is somewhat subjective, inquantifiable.</p>
<p>In fact, even with mandatory homework many people in my classes don't do it. Obviously making people pay for schooling is silly, it's also known as private school.</p>
<p>I think it's really sad that a kid has to take an AP class to get the equivalent of what was honors when I was in hs. (I used to think my hs was terrific, but now I'm starting to realize that the quality was being in the honors track) Anyway, at the school my kids go/went to, I've had children taking all three levels (regular, honors, AP), we don't have remedial, and esplly with writing it seems they really don't do any in regular (they had a coloring assignment for Beowolf! - i didn't know we were the only ones drawing posters in hs!). In honors they do the 5 paragraph essay (which mine did in 8th grade), but no research papers, and in AP they really learn to write. That said my ultimate surprise was that D2 learned to write well in AP History, NOT in AP English! Go figure.</p>
<p>@ mikesown
I don't think AP classes were intended to be exact college courses. They are supposed to teach college-level course material, but it is still for high school credit, so the style of the class should be taught as just a really hard high school class.</p>
<p>But anywho, I am surprised to actually say that my school prepared me for college. This is only because of, however, the fact that I took all honors/AP courses. All my English classes have been pretty thorough. In ninth grade we had an "independent fiction project" that required us to respond to several prompts given to us each week, culminating in us compiling all of our work into one final project. I wrote at least 7 pages a week just on this (this was just one assignment during that timeframe, we were still continuing with in-class readings, vocab, and other related work) and my final project consisted of a 50 page creative project. It was sort of in a scrapbook form with pictures here and there, but that was the most writing I ever did for one project. I also did another independent project, this time only 20 pages, along with several other long essays. My 11th grade year is where I really perfected my writing, as I had to write AP essays nearly every day for Lit. This really helped me hone my reading and writing skills, something that I wouldn't have been able to do in even our honors level classes.</p>
<p>As far as other subjects go, I simply have been lucky in my selection of teachers. Obviously mine have been better because of the level of class I took, and I have noticed that other students at my school simply are not ready for college-level work. None of them, except for those in maybe 9th grade English honors, have had the right level of work to prep them for college. At our school, honors is essentially regular, and regular is remedial. My friends brag about how they BS or sleep their way through a class to receive a high grade, and wonder why I didn't opt to do the same. As I could only take honors in 9th grade, it was simply a review of middle school for me, making for a wasted year. Our school is really catered to the stupid, and you have to be self-motivated to prepare yourself for college.</p>
<p>The study seems flawed to me (what defines prepared?) but I think the result is pretty true.</p>
<p>I think that in most public high schools, regular college prep is and always will be a joke; ever since the "everybody's special" movement where no one's feelings can get hurt there has to be a non-remedial course level that anyone can pass and most with at least a B if they care-no matter how little they actually know.</p>
<p>Homework also seems to be weighted too heavily in all levels of high school; rarely is it over 50% of the grade.</p>
<p>High school grades for most are insignificant in the long run, so grades should be deflated and kids should actually be challenged in every class. I have no data, but I would guess that at least a quarter of AP classes are ridiculously easy or improperly taught or something. For me it was 2 really easy, 1 horrible in every way and 3 good.</p>
<p>But in the long run, most of the responsibility rests with each individual student. The problem is most kids won't go out of their way to get help with high school work.</p>
<p>I also agree with the point that AP classes should be very similar to college</p>
<p>I agree with the news article from the Time it is true that many incoming freshmen to college are not adequately prepared for college. I remember back in 10th grade that i wanted to take "college prepatory math" only because it said that it would help a student to prepare for college math but as i found out from some friends who took it that all they did was add up negative integers, add decimals, add fractions,divide, multiple, and do simple stats like mean, median and mode that was it. I m so glad I never took those courses because they would have been a big waste of time and besides your suppose to know how to do that already by at least the latest 8th grade.</p>
<p>No where near 25% of kids are prepared for real college level work... and they don't have to be. There are several studies (just google it) that show the significant grade inflation at the high school AND college level. Most schools are diploma mills... and have been, and continue to be, dumbed down.</p>
<p>The curriculum and expectation demands are so low and most kids don't even realize it. As an earlier poster said, people tend to naturally adjust to the circumstances. Some kids will naturally rise above this and push themselves or are fortunate enough to go to a demanding high school or university (or an honors program at a regular university)... however, most will not.</p>
<p>Our education system is churning out more high school and college graduates, but they are less prepared when they graduate.</p>
<p>I don't understand...isn't the whole point of high school to prepare kids for college? You shouldn't have to take specific College Prep classes to be prepared...</p>
<p>"besides your suppose to know how to do that already by at least the latest 8th grade."</p>
<p>^^^But the majority in many urban public schools do NOT know that by the 8th grade. I recently visited an 11th grade classroom, near me. They were doing basic operations worksheets for math class. And as for language skills, most of the kids in the school (all classes) are not fluent in English, nor are they being required by the school to become fluent. Translators are brought in to conference with the parents. </p>
<p>A non-fluent student is seriously affected by the time he reaches middle school. If it is not addressed (and it isn't), then the learning, which is presented in English, is stalled. That is across all subjects. Even mathematics learning requires a command of the language, because the text introductions are in English, as is the formal teaching. So the middle school "graduate" does not have mastery over basic english & math skills, & enters high school with that deficit. </p>
<p>The fluent kids who are capable of mastery are being kept behind by an ill-advised approach of accommodating to the majority non-English speakers, rather than providing a model for the student to accommodate to the expected standard. </p>
<p>And if you're wondering where the teachers are who will reverse this, the gifted ones are mostly no longer part of the system, because the system is king, & education the banished stepchild. Teachers do not make decisions, generally, about the expectations or the standards. Those are left to administrators. Enlightened administrators practice collegiality with their teachers, but there aren't many of them. I won't teach in those conditions, so I consult instead, and teach and tutor outside of the traditional classroom.</p>
<p>I agree fully with Anhydrosis. In my view the failure of our schools to prepare kids for college is a symptom of a combination of much deeper problems. Those problems are (in very general terms across the culture): </p>
<p>a. Low expectatinos for our kids. Kids generally respond to what's being demanded of them. I don't think we expect much anymore. Grade inflation is a sympton of this issue.
b. Emphasis on self-esteem as opposed to performance. Lots of rationalizations for poor performance. Failure to criticize poor performance even when warranted.<br>
c. Impact of excessive television and gaming.<br>
d. Unwillingness to make tradeoffs - kids can;t play 4 sports, piano lessons, have play time, AND do well at school.
e. General lack of satisfactory supervision.<br>
f. Our economic system has showered so many benefits on recent generations that, frankly, I think we've become quite soft as a culture. The urgent striving so integral to the Depression generation(s) has given way to sloth (relatively speaking).
g. Lack of consequences for dubious behavior or effort. In my son's grade school they have a class of kids my son callsthe "anger management class". What has occurred in these kid's upbringing that they are incapable of functioning in a school environment without remedial anger management skills? </p>
<p>I am bemused by people who find all the fault with the schools. Discipline, high expectations, and work ethic are learned at home. All the AP instruction in the world won;t overcome poor discipline and intellectual laziness. </p>
<p>My daughter is in 9th grade. On the back-to-school night her science professor said that he treats the kids like college kids - high expectations, no fear in giving poor grades, etc. Well, she has had a very tough time adjusting to his unyielding style, and is struggling grade-wise in the course, but I am very grateful because he is instilling the discipline that will carry her through other tough courses down the road. And, interestingly, she does not gripe about it - just tries to meet those lofty exectations.</p>
<p>I think doing college prep (for college credit) courses are a waste of time. Life is to be enjoyed, not to be lived on a treadmill of stress. HS should be for HS....college should be for college. Too many have lost their priorities in our society. There will always be someone better and smarter than you, so why stress the small stuff.</p>
<p>Our local high school has AP classes. But one of the rewards for A grades is exemption from finals so all the good students graduate HS without ever having had to do a final. Having said that the finals they do have are not really what I would consider a final - in that they do not cover the entire semester of work. Many really bright kids get a shock when they start college. I know of several who were really shocked to be getting Cs their 1st semester and they felt they were not prepared.</p>
<p>My public high school had general classes, honors, and AP. Anyone who wanted to go to college was expected to take honors courses, and anyone who wanted to go to a decent college was expected to take a good deal of AP courses. This makes sense to me.</p>
<p>That said, I took all honors & AP courses in high school, and can think of only three that prepared me for college. (I'm at a flagship state school that I think is giving me an excellent education.)</p>
<p>1) AP English Language -- written essays, and lots of them, though mostly at home. Some literary analysis.</p>
<p>2) AP English Lit -- in-class essays. We'd spend entire class periods writing an essay to be graded. Continued analysis of literature.</p>
<p>3) AP U.S. History -- practice DBQ's in class (for those unfamiliar with the AP test, a DBQ gives you a handful of letters/charts/etc primary source documents and you answer a question citing specific examples from those sources). History has never been a strong subject for me and I had to study and work hard for B's (something pretty much unheard of in many of my other classes). I recieved two C's and two B's over the grading periods, leaving my final grade pretty much up for negotiation. My teacher gave me a B, seeing that I had realized the importance of putting in the extra effort. Probably one of my most memorable lessons in high school.</p>
<p>In college, I passed out of English 101 (a requirement) with my AP scores, but had to complete Professional Writing (an English requirement for all junior/senior students) this past semester. I earned an A, and am quite pleased--my professor was a tough grader and I learned a lot from him. I give a lot of credit to my high school English courses for that.</p>
<p>I think that at any rigorous, top-tier boarding school, you're going to get kids who can go to top 15 colleges and treat it like a breeze, because they've dealt with sometimes harder work in high school. I'm going to Choate Rosemary Hall next year, and I know that kids there work until 1 or 2 in the morning because they get 5 hours of homework a night. It depends completely upon the school system, not on the student.</p>
<p>Expectations for student writing have declined by a staggering amount. For 12th-grade English (non-AP, it wasn't offered), we were expected to write six 20-page papers over the course of the year. I still remember mine on Wordsworth & Coleridge, which to a would-be engineering major was pretty yucky. Other classes, including Social Studies and Languages also had substantial written assignments. </p>
<p>Today, it seems as if the material can't be reduced to a bubble-in test, it isn't taught.</p>
<p>Good response hvccgolfn -- it's not just the schools, it's also family expectations and direction.</p>
<p>My daughter went to an urban public school with demographics and challenges that many CC parents would cringe at, yet she is successful at a private college that mainly attracts students from well funded suburban high schools or private high schools.</p>
<p>Our experience was the high school provided necessary college preparation for students who wanted to learn. Unfortunately, little of the student body took advantage of the oportunities. Many college bound students settled for the teachers with the easy reps or honors classes rather than the more rigorous AP.</p>
<p>My daughter credits her high school AP English Literature teacher for showing her how to write and research papers at a college level. She believes that single class sucessfully prepared her to write the many reports and papers required of liberal arts majors.</p>
<p>I like to think her success in college, though, is also the result of a family who encouraged reading for pleasure over watching TV and spent evening dinners discussing work, school, interesting events in the news.</p>
<p>When people say today's schools don't adequately educate students, my reply is most do a fine job for students who value education.</p>
<p>Marlene, one of the odder things about our family was the (in general) "No TV until the homework is done" rule. As a result, we haven't watched a "regular" show in years and D watched very little after the Nickelodeon phase (Ghostwriter, Sabrina, etc.). Exceptions were made for the "talking heads" shows, which might explain why she was better versed than many adult voters about political issues.</p>