NYC day schools rank higher than bding schools

<p>Sorry prepparent, I get it now. And, I fully see your point.</p>

<p>Shannyc, I was speaking in terms of what's available for my children. It's moot for me to research NYC schools when my children live in Texas and not NYC/area.
From what I have read, the NYC day school's are very very good but, that does nothing for us who live around the rest of the world.
As for comparing NYC day school's and BS's, I can only say that there is a whole lot of education to be had in the boarding environment that day school students cannot acquire.</p>

<p>OK. I wrote "Why add your thoughts to this thread" I meant to write "Why not add your thoughts to this thread."
In Post #33. So it sounded like I was asking Shannyc why he/she was posting on this thread, when I was trying to suggest that it would be good to put those ideas on the "Best Prep School" thread.</p>

<p>WoW, what happened?</p>

<p>prepparent, I agree with you on that. But, boarding situations have pros and cons. I think it depends on the student and the student's family. Impulsive children who don't have strong sense of themselves, may not do very well living on their own at this stage in their lives.</p>

<p>Right Burb Parent. That's why I was confused at first, but I figured it out.</p>

<p>I feel that we're losing the true meaning of attending a secondary school, which is generally to have fun and offere better college options. If this is the case, both NYC day schools, boarding schools, and other schools offer the same. Sometimes entering a school below "top-ranked" could give you advantages.
Anyway, the reason there are so many celebrities in NYC day schools is probably because NYC is a bustling city that attracts the rich. And when these rich family look for educational options for their children, they look at private day schools. However, these schools may or may not be better than other schools.</p>

<p>Well, I think my disconnect with this thread -- and perhaps why we're all talking past each other -- is that I can't fathom the motivation behind anyone who asks the core question: which prep schools are the most prestigious?</p>

<p>I immediately suspect the priorities of anyone who asks that question, let alone someone who seeks that advice on an anonymous message board.</p>

<p>I've run in some pretty stellar circles as a "yute." From children of top Wall Street execs, to heirs of some of America's greatest fortunes (a couple names listed here), to children of star athletes and Hollywood icons -- both on-screen and off-screen. But hanging out with these kids just doesn't get you into those circles. It doesn't open doors. I've had to wear hip-waders I've been so deep in the prestige...but it doesn't "elevate" you (or your child) by being around prestige.</p>

<p>I wasn't just a spectator either. I wasn't the dorky kid who picked his nose in the back of the class who happened to be near these kids who never bothered to talk with me. These were my best buds. We went on insane road trips together, shoplifted girly magazines in 6th grade and then tossed them into a dumpster before we got to look, hitchhiked together to a nearby all girl's school, shared vacations with each other, and even saved (and then bankrupted) a lost-cause restaurant with one.</p>

<p>We were sincerely "friends for life." But while that was neat and those experiences are obviously treasured, there's just no way that even a likeable, popular buddy who doesn't hail from those circles can keep up with those circles. Going to school with them -- as I did with many -- did not open doors. It didn't give me any friendship that was "better" (in any meaningful way) than the friendships anyone could form with the most destitute kid who had no privileges or emoluments. Indeed, one of the most popular kids in our school was a kid who was blind, black and from a part of the nearby city that had some awful nicknames. The value of friendships is not measured by prestige, celebrity or daddy's bank account.</p>

<p>If someone asks where to find "prestige" because they think that's where they ought to go to school to find the most opportunities, they're already off to a bad start. The friends I have to this day who would make those lists of children of captains of industry and celebrities and old money are not people who open doors for me or created any opportunities. They're people I count on as friends in the exact same way I look to any other friend I've had the great privilege to acquire over the years. They've never gotten me a job or admission to grad school...and I wouldn't dream of asking that of anyone whose friendship I valued.</p>

<p>If you (in the generic sense) can't find prestige among the people you're with now...people with integrity who'd hang with you through thick and thin, you're less likely to find it by seeking out people you hope to suck it off of like a parasite.</p>

<p>When someone asks for the lowdown on where to find prestige I roll my eyes and grit my teeth. So maybe that's why I don't get the arguing and insistence on handing out props for schools that deserve to be recognized for having prestige.</p>

<p>The school that has the best prestige is the one that takes my child and, through individualized attention, helps mold him into a beautiful human being. Beyond that small circle of one school (per child), I don't give a crap about how much more prestige any school has with other people -- especially according to a message board of total strangers.</p>

<p>This might be the one topic where I have no problem with people giving out totally off-the-wall information and answers. Because if the "prestige" question is being asked by someone, there's really no way you can steer that person any further off the path of enlightenment than where they already are.</p>

<p>Once again, thanks for the eloquence.</p>

<p>I feel like these discussions go round and round and go nowhere.</p>

<p>Wow! D'yer Maker, you never cease to astound with your incredible insight. I agree with you believe it or not. However, I do find top 10 list fun, and since this is an anoymous board I feel free to admit that. In addition I like to see accuracy, and if someone wants to know the best prep schools in the nation, I would like to see an accurate list.</p>

<p>Well...I can't help but to ask -- best according to what? Accurate based on what? There's too much that can't be measured. I know I'm a broken record but ...</p>

<p>Since what's considered best is truly subjective, if we're going to have a universal list it has to be based on hard core stats. The only way we can compare all of these great High Schools, in my opinion, is by SAT scores and exmissions to the most elite univesities and liberal arts colleges.</p>

<p>Since student's SAT scores correlate best with a student's SSAT/ISEE scores, this really is simply a measure of the incoming students' test taking abilities. Matriculation data to particular schools tends to be skewed by the high schools location, with many rankings (ie. prepreview) biased towards Ivies. While colleges have gotten caught up in playing the Newsweek rankings game, private high school educators have wisely disavowed any attempts to rank secondary schools. Thus we are left with our own rather limited and biased viewpoints.</p>

<p>I think this is getting a little silly. I don't care what numbers say. Best is never truly attainable. It is too subjective. Research. Look at many schools, visit as many as you can and make the best decision you can based on what you've learned. Pick the best of what's best for you. Ok, I'll stop.</p>

<p>Sierradoc, this may apply to boarding schools. But, most of the students in the NYC day schools have been their since K and don't take the SSAT/ISEE. Furthermore, even if this were the case, it would still show that the top students are in these schools. I don't get the theory that matriculation to certain schools is based on the high schools location. Most of the boarding schools are based in the NE as are the NYC day schools. Chapin sends a lot of graduates to Stanford which is clear across the country. liv&learn, this may be your true feelings. However, the facts remain that this question is asked on this board.</p>

<p>Shannyc - You failed to list your source. I doubt there is one, because Petersons, as a I noted, is against ranking.. so, please show us where they rank your school as #1.</p>

<p>Here are some stats for Exeter, which is the BS I know most about (along w/ Andover).</p>

<p>How many courses are offered? 350
Languages? 10 (including Arabic and Italian)
Sports teams? 62 interscholastic + 27 intramural = 89 (+ a host of Olympian coaches and alumni)
Acres? 619.. of smog-free waterfront wilderness.
Buildings? 127 (lots of awards for architecture excellence, largest secondary school library in world, 200,000 sq ft gym, boathouse on property)
How many volumes in library? 160,000 (+ a host of special collections from American Revolution, etc.)
Extracurricular clubs? 100+++ (E and A have the world's oldest secondary school newspapers)
Departments? 19
Endowment? $800 million+
States represented? 50
Countries? ~30
Average SAT score? 2073
Faculty? 203
Student:Teacher ratio? 5:1
Students of color? 38%
International students? 12%
Students on FA? 33%, full-ride students? 10%
Actual cost to attend? ~$60,000, actual tuition: $37,000 boarding, $27,000 day students.. the difference is covered by the generous alumni, which finance 10% of the operating budget (~$230 million)
Is need-blind.</p>

<p>10% at HYP
25% 87/350 at Ivy</p>

<ul>
<li>lots of famous novels based on Exeter</li>
<li>tri-weekly assembly of world leaders in politics, art, science, business..</li>
</ul>

<p>as for name recognition, googling "phillips exeter academy" and you will get 209,000 results, and if you google "the chapin school" you get 17,000, many of which are about schools of the same name in NJ and elsewhere. if you include manhattan in the search, there are 600 results. same goes for the other ny schools.</p>

<p>matriculation.. the only info i could find was about Spence..
in the past 5 years, 12 students have attended Harvard (school of 660)
and 11 have attended Princeton....so 4.6 students at harvard and princeton per year.</p>

<p>and the most notable alums from the spence schol (again, the only one w/ hard stats on the internet) were:</p>

<pre><code>* Ethel McCullough Scott
* Rita White Matthews
* Francine du Plessix Gray
* Ellen Sparry Brush
* Dr. Nancy Hopkins
* Bonnie Jenkins
* Elizabeth Montgomery
* Nimet Habachy
* Serena Altschul
* Gwyneth Paltrow
* Melanie Rehak
* Marjorie Lake Post
* Helen Clay Frick, daughter of Henry Clay Frick
</code></pre>

<p>Of which, I only think one could really be considered famous (Paltrow).</p>

<p>off the top of my head, from your list alone, the alumni you bragged about (from every school in NYC) actually chose to leave NYC and attend BS..
JFK Jr. - andover
JFK - choate
(the rest of the kennedys attended a host of other BS's as well.. milton, sps, concord..)
Jackie O - miss porters
Ivanka Trump - choate
hearst - sps</p>

<p>Could you please show us your sources? And could you show us all of the stats which you claim trump Andover's, Exeter's, and Choate's stats listed about?</p>

<p>EDIT:
I found Chapin's matriculation...</p>

<p>"Chapin sends a lot of graduates to Stanford which is clear across the country."-Shannyc</p>

<p>"College Entrance Record 2002-2006" (5 years)
"College /Number Entering"
"Stanford University /7"</p>

<p>= 1.4 students per year.</p>

<p>How is that a lot? Do you seriously think 1-2 kids a year is "a lot" and "clear across the country"?</p>

<p>Ahhhh...what is it that they say about youth?</p>

<p>Only Paltrow could be considered famous?</p>

<p>Not Elizabeth Montgomery...Bewitched? And Helen Clay Frick...not famous? Was it the museum that bears her name that fooled you? Or her daddy's partnership with Andrew Carnegie (a company that was later called US Steel)?</p>

<p>Francine du Plessix Gray was more of an icon than Paltrow.</p>

<p>The thing is, with girls' schools, their mission was so much different from boys' schools until the Pill so it's hard to compare...with so many of the brightest minds in the nation going on to Barnard and Smith and Bryn Mawr and then, from there, graduating to their MRS degrees. The ones the world did hear of were either artists or became powerful in the field of philanthropy.</p>

<p>Finally, I know Bonnie Jenkins (not well enough to know where she attended high school) and though I don't expect anyone else does, I will say that I'm pretty sure everyone else will inside of 20 years, perhaps as Secretary of State or, maybe a little later, Vice President or President of the United States. She's Condi Rice...with better timing as Rice's prospects for President are diminished by America's continuing dysfunction over how to handle race and we might come along far enough in Jenkins' lifetime.</p>

<p>Blairt, I did list my source, which is Peterson's Prep review. Pay the $50 and you can see the list. Chapin is tied with Spence for #6 in the nation. The graduating classes for most of the NYC day schools are less than 50 most years, so when you say only 7 went to Stanford between 2002-2006 you're not telling the entire picture. Btw, during that period 18 were accepted. </p>

<p>Also, I don't think googling and using Wikipedia are reliable sources. For instance this wouldn't tell you that Bloomberg's daughters attended Spence, Tish daughters, etc. Furthermore, if you read my post, I stated that some students transfer from NYC day schools to boarding schools. I even used Ivanka Trump as an example. After attending these schools since Kindergarten, some are ready for a change of scenery, especially at the single-sex schools, some get counseled out because they couldn't keep up with the rest of the class, as is the case with JFK Jr, and others graduate from k-8 schools.</p>

<p>Since you're into stats, I thought you might get a kick out of this one. 97% of Chapin graduates attend the most selective and highly selective colleges. 67% attend the top 35 universities and 5 liberal arts colleges.</p>

<p>As far as name recognition, in the "Devil wears Prada" the main characters children attended Dalton, in the movie "Searching for Bobby Fisher" the main character attends Dalton, Catherina Zeta Jones is making "The Nanny Diaries", which is mostly about the difficulty in getting admitted into tt NYC private schools, into a movie. In the books "Kindergarten Wars" and "The Price of Admissions" you will see several NYC schools mentioned. There was a special on the E channel today about Rich Heiresses and most of the girls mentioned attended NYC day schools, Chapin being highly represented. I can go on, but do I have to?</p>

<p>Finally, D'yer Maker, I think you need to start your own board. You're in a league of your own.</p>

<p>Blairt this is where the NYC privates rank according to Peterson's. #1 Collegiate, #2 Trinity, #4 Brearley, #5 St.Ann's, #6 Chapin/Spence, #9 Dalton</p>

<p>FYI, these are the books that refer to Exeter:</p>

<pre><code>* A Separate Peace - This novel by John Knowles is set at "Devon," a thinly veiled fictionalization of Exeter, in the summer of 1942.
* A Prayer for Owen Meany - In this novel by John Irving, the protagonist/narrator, John Wheelwright, and his best friend, Owen Meany, are both day students at Gravesend Academy, modeled after Exeter. Owen writes a popular column in The Grave (modeled after The Exonian) called "The Voice," which is critical of the school administration and the Vietnam war, among other topics. Part of this book was later adapted for the movie Simon Birch, though none of the Exeter parts made it into the film.
* The World According to Garp - In this novel by John Irving, the protagonist/narrator, T.S. Garp, is the illegitimate, only child of Jenny Fields, the school nurse at "Steering School," Irving's fictionalized name for Exeter. Young Garp grows up in Steering's infirmary, eventually attending the school and joining its wrestling team. The book was adapted into a screenplay for the film of the same name, starring Robin Williams, Glenn Close, and featuring a cameo by the author as a wrestling referee.
* A Widow for One Year - In this novel by John Irving, Eddie O'Hare, one of the main characters of the story, is a student at Exeter. Also, Eddie's father, "Minty" O'Hare, is a teacher there, and Eddie is raised on the campus.
* Tea and Sympathy - This play by Robert Anderson (later a movie as well) treats the inner struggles of an Exeter student.
</code></pre>

<p>I think there are more, but I found this on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_Exeter_Academy%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_Exeter_Academy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>