NYT Acceptance Rates Chart - ED vs RD?

Parents Forum
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<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...es.html/?_r=1&%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...es.html/?_r=1&&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So after scanning the numbers in the NYT chart (link above), I wonder about the truth behind these numbers. I am new to this game, so forgive me, but I am struggling to see (and I really want to see it...) the difference in applying ED/EA versus RD.</p>

<p>I've gone through a few CC threads of acceptances at the top schools and noticed that many of those accepted ED/EA are URM's, legacies, athletes or are from a low population state. If you take those kids out of the equation, are the numbers still so much higher than RD. Does anyone know this answer?</p>

<p>I am struggling with advising S1 on whether or not to apply early to his number one choice. Yes, he has the numbers, the EC's etc. He is eligible for the lottery per se. But he is not URM, we are from a state with a tremendous number of applicants, he's not a legacy and goes to a competitive school where many kids will apply EA/ED to the two schools that are at the top of his list. While we are not 0 EFC, he will check off financial aid, so does that further lower the ED chances?</p>

<p>So, if you have no hooks whatsoever, does it make sense to go RD? I know this is probably a tough question, but after looking at the NYT chart and then looking at the threads on CC I need someone with a little more knowledge than I have to help me think through this.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your input.<br>
(I originally posted this on another thread, but don't think it belonged there - sorry for any confusion)</p>

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<p>Depends on the school. The link to the article did not work for me</p>

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<p><a href=“2013 College Acceptance Rates - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com”>2013 College Acceptance Rates - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com;

<p>Maybe this one will work?</p>

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<p>Schools are Ivies if that helps any.</p>

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<p>The statistics are misleading because of differences in the applicant’s pool. Many of the ED applicants have a “hook” that may evaporate in value if they apply RD – such as being a recruited athlete or a legacy applicant. The ED pools are smaller and more heavily populated with high-wealth students or students attending top prep schools. So ED benefits some applicants and not others. </p>

<p>If you are relying on financial aid but are not certain of what you can expect from a school, then ED is generally a poor choice. It deprives you of information and there is an opportunity cost given that to apply ED at one school means that you lose the ability to apply to schools that do not offer early admission decisions. </p>

<p>The primary purpose of ED from the college’s point of view is to lock in full-pay (or nearly full-pay) students. The top colleges are “need blind” in theory, but throughout the admissions process they tend to place high value on a large variety of factors that tend to be indicia of wealth, or at least of a family with discretionary spending money.</p>

<p>You wrote, "we are from a state with a tremendous number of applicants, he’s not a legacy and goes to a competitive school where many kids will apply EA/ED to the two schools that are at the top of his list. " If your son is at a competitive disadvantage with other kids who will be applying ED from his high school, then ED won’t improve things. Those other kids will still apply. Being “unhooked” is not at all advantageous in the ED process — it just is a signal to the school that there is no particular need to lock in that applicant. </p>

<p>Put yourself in the shoes of the admission committee. Which kids are you going to choose from the ED applicant pool? You’ll want to lock in the best prospects – but there’s no advantage to the school to tie up a space with a bright but unremarkable student when they know that there will be many more equally capable students in the RD round. They are going to use ED to fill the slots they want to fill.</p>

<p>The best strategy is to target schools where your son is going to be a very attractive applicant to the admissions committee. If you want to take toss an application toward an ED school and see what happens – go ahead – but keep in mind that there is a tendency for students to then place all their hopes in that one school, and then if they are deferred or rejected, to have to prepare applications to other schools in a rush – which of course diminishes the quality of those other apps. </p>

<p>So either way, your son really needs to PLAN to apply to many schools, and focus a good deal of attention on schools where chances of admission are reasonably high. </p>

<p>So have your son draw up his list, prepare the applications as if he is going to apply RD. Then if you decide to go ahead and submit one application ED, the others are ready to go i December if the ED school doesn’t pan out.</p>

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<p>Great advice Calmom - I greatly appreciate it.</p>

<p>His plan right now is to apply to a good mix of reaches, matches and safeties.</p>

<p>The question that has come up is which one to apply ED/EA.</p>

<p>He, of course, wants to ED his first choice (a top five) which is a reach for everyone, but particularly for someone with no hooks. I think it might be better to go early at one of the lower reaches or a match school. Then later in the RD round, if his first choice school is looking to fill in it’s class and needs someone with his specific talent, then he might get lucky.</p>

<p>Does this make sense?</p>

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<p>No, it does not make sense, because if he gets in somewhere ED, he is required to withdraw his other applications, unless you elect to turn down the ED admission for financial reasons. He can’t wait to see if he gets into his reach RD.</p>

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<p>I apologize mammabear - you are correct. We would not be able to say no due to financial reasons.</p>

<p>I am just learning about all of this and even though I am researching, I sometimes forget the rules!</p>

<p>What about EA? There are several schools on his list that are Early Action or Single Choice Early Action. Can’t he apply to those and still consider the RD decisions?</p>

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<p>Even if your son has the GPA, stats, EC’s to be “competitive” at an Ivy or 2, the reality is your DS’s chances of acceptance at a top Ivy ED are nothing more than a crap shoot or lottery. Why waste the chances of him landing some really big scholarships at other fine universities by allowing him to apply ED?
You AND your son need to spend the time finding some match and financial safeties that he would be happy to go to, instead of even contemplating the low low statistical possibilities of his acceptance at a “dream” college. Having a ED Ivy as his "dream "college these days, is like falling in love with a beautiful, expensive and rare luxury car-- the chances of being given one free are close to nil.
It will not be worth the price he might pay, if he is rejected, which is statistically the most likely outcome, and you and he did not change your focus toward finding schools where he will most likely would accepted AND happy to go to! </p>

<p>If he wants to throw in a “what the Hell” RD Ivy application, fine. Make sure he knows it is like throwing a coin in a wishing well. The best thing to then do is forget he even applied.<br>
Then if he does gets in AND you can afford to send him there- consider it a “gift”- nothing more.</p>

<p>"There are several schools on his list that are Early Action or Single Choice Early Action. "</p>

<p>SCEA means he cannot apply to any other EA colleges. And the SCEA colleges - Stanford and Yale- are just as much of a crap shoot as the ED Ivys for Non legacy, non DA, non recruited, non URL applicants. So once again, he would be severely limiting his chances of acceptance at other non binding EA colleges.
He needs to cast a much wider net in order to have a better chance of acceptance at a college he can get into and you can afford.</p>

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<p>I am not up on what Ivies are SCEA, but I don’t see a downside to applying that way. When S1 applied, one could apply SCEA and also to rolling and state schools.</p>

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<p>Yes you can apply early to PUBLIC colleges and U’s, as well as SCEA schools. But you cant apply early to other PRIVATE colleges, as well as a SCEA school.</p>

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<p>HYPS are SCEA. If one of those is far and away his top choice, I would say go for it. There is a very big advantage at those schools to applying early. If you give the school name he is thinking about, people could give you more specific advice about it. :)</p>

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<p>“I am not up on what Ivies are SCEA”</p>

<p>Pretty easy! All you need is to remember that the very top schools (HYPS) are SCEA, namely that Harvard, Princeton, and Yale have joined Stanford as SCEA schools. </p>

<p>The next level comprising Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Penn is for the ED schools. </p>

<p>Then come MIT and Chicago with non restrictive Early Admission with the likes of Georgetown, Notre Dame, and Caltech. </p>

<p>Most LACs offer ED and several offer ED1 and ED2.</p>

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<p>By the way, to add some perspective to the discussion of ED/SCEA versus RD, guess what the following numbers represent:</p>

<p>490%
344%
341%
336%
268%
256%
254%
230%
219%
138%</p>

<p>The correct answer is about how higher the odds are to be admitted as an ED/SCEA applicant over a RD applicant. The order corresponds to the number
490% Harvard
344% Dartmouth
341% Columbia
336% Princeton
268% Yale
256% Stanford
254% Penn
230% Brown
219% Cornell
138% MIT* is an EA school. </p>

<p>Of course, one has to dig deeper and ascertain how accurate the claims of a more qualified pool (and similar yada-yada) are, or decide to believe the seminal research of Avery and Fairbanks who dispelled those myths years ago.</p>

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<p>DS has a very good list of reach, match and safety schools.</p>

<p>There are three schools that he would absolutely attend if he got in, so these are the ones he is considering early - Harvard, Penn and Yale. Yes, he knows they are all super reaches. That is why we have visited a wide variety of schools and found several matches and safeties that he he really likes.</p>

<p>That said, he still wants to apply to his “dream” schools and I can’t argue with that. You have to be in it to win it - right?</p>

<p>The question is, given the stats, does he have a better chance at those three going early
(SCEA at either Harvard or Yale or ED at Penn) or waiting until the RD round.</p>

<p>It seems to me that many if not most of the Early acceptances go to URM’s, legacies, athletes, those not checking the FA box, etc. So perhaps the percentages might be better if he goes RD?</p>

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<p>Xiggi, you’re miles ahead of everyone else on this thread. I don’t think anyone else knows about Avery and Fairbanks.</p>

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<p>It’s a tough call. No one from our high school has ever been admitted to Yale or Harvard. We have had a couple get into Penn ED. Would he be OK if he got into Penn ED or would he always wonder ‘what if?’. My D could not bring herself to apply ED to any of the selective LAC’s on her list because she was not ready to choose one at that point.</p>

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<p>Dont apply ED to Penn if you have to apply for FA too.
It just restricts your ability to compare FA $ too much.
Take a look at the Common Data Sets for those 3 U’s and compare the statistics for admitted or enrolled freshman. They can be quite revealing!
Penn as I recall, it, accepts a very high % of students ranked in the top 1-5% of their classes. The are also not nearly as generous with FA, because of their far smaller endowment compared to H and Y .</p>

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<p>VERY good point. Forgot she said they were applying for FA.</p>

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<p>Xiggi - can you fill us in on Avery and Fairbanks? Have mercy on the newbies! :0)</p>

<p>Mammabear - the kids at your school that got into Penn ED - were they CAS, Wharton or Huntsman? Do you know if they were legacies, athletes URM’s or had other hooks?</p>

<p>My sons friend applied early to Harvard this year and got deferred. He then applied RD and got into Yale and MIT. He had no hooks (but incredible stats!).</p>

<p>Menloparkmom - Common Data Set is a good idea. I browsed them a while back and totally forgot about this resource. Thank you! Good to know that Penn accepts top 5% of class - that helps. </p>

<p>thanks to everyone - your input and suggestions are greatly appreciated!</p>