<p>I think showmom gives an accurate example. Your graduate would like need to earn a minimum of about $20,000/year to live in the city (not sharing a bedroom), and not paying any college loans or their own health insurance. For many this is doable with survival jobs. </p>
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<p>You make a very valid point. However, I said what I said because (at least in my own personal experience), history majors, music majors, and English majors are more “open” to a wide variety of jobs. There is no one career known as “the music career” or “the English career”. These students seem to be driven by a general interest in a certain area, and therefore towards any job that allows them to use such interests. I can think of more jobs that would accept an English or History major than a major as specific as film production or creative writing. </p>
<p>Unlike a wider area of study such as English or History, with film there really are only a handful of those prized jobs. I don’t think anyone majoring in filmmaking or screenwriting tells themselves “I’ll be happy with anything” or “let’s just see where this takes me”. A large majority of them would either like to write scripts, direct features, or aid with cinematography. These skills aren’t necessarily practical in a wide variety of fields. Maybe digital filmmaking is, if a student would be happy taking on a job as a videographer for, say, advertising companies rather than being a creative storyteller. But I can’t think of how the skillset gained from a creative writing major would necessarily transfer into many jobs (that isn’t to say it can’t, though, when you have a more open minded employer). </p>
<p>Your statement “if nobody majored in these areas, who would then become tomorrow’s artists, writers, etc.” also implies that a college education is a basic necessity for these careers. Last I checked, many of the greatest artists today never attended college for either of these fields, or didn’t attend college at all. Quentin Tarantino even dropped out of high school. While Steven Spielberg is technically a USC graduate, he only enrolled and got in after he was very successful. So I suppose the answer to your question is… anyone who wants to pursue these areas, whether or not they decide to acquire expensive, formal training or not. The education is certainly a factor, but it isn’t the deciding one. </p>
<p>You do make a strong point, however, by saying these selective programs already cut off the less talented kids. Though there is one flaw I still see here. These programs don’t simply accept students on artistic merit alone. A student with outstanding grades in a variety of AP classes, participation in a sport and clubs, a great SAT score, community service hours AND a ‘decent’ portfolio of work is surely more likely to be accepted into these programs than a student with an outstanding portfolio of work, but lacking high school marks. While it’s true that many of these elements - grades, sports, clubs, SAT - say a lot about the kind of person someone is, at the end of the day they’re truly irrelevant factors when it comes to how talented a writer or filmmaker someone is. This also has to be taken into account. </p>
<p>I think an NYU or USC education is wonderful. The education itself can only help, not hurt. However, if significant debt is picked up along the way, I can’t help but wonder if it’s worth it. I’m all for being educated and expanding your mind. But should “expanding the mind” really come with a 40k price tag? Or at the very least, can the mind be expanded in an area that can be used to grab a wide selection of jobs, as opposed to a smaller number of specific ones?</p>
<p>and @evilqueen - I never said a college degree in general is worthless. I’m only suggesting there are certain factors that need to be taken into account (not only blind desire). If your child wants to be a surgeon, they must go to college. There’s absolutely no way to learn surgery at home, unless you have a set of expensive medical tools and a couple of cadavers on hand of course. On top of that, no one in their right mind wants an unlicensed doctor operating on them. For the arts though? I know that when I read a book, or watch a film, or buy a piece of artwork, I care about one thing and one thing only - quality. I could care less if someone went to college. I’m going to buy the better book or watch the better film and better actor, no matter what educational background the author, filmmaker, or actor has. </p>
<p>In my own personal opinion, there are other ways to learn these crafts that do not require a college degree. As I said before, I don’t know too much about theater, but for writing and filmmaking, my feelings remain unchanged. </p>
<p>I did not discover the MT part of CC until my son went through the process, and a painful process it was for me, him and anyone else associated with it. His highschool was a detriment in the process. We made every mistake we could have made, and when all was done, I was done with the process. Son went to a MT program which I believe was the only reason he graduated with a college degree as he was truly done with school. I was happy he had 4 more years to perform and enjoy himself, and hopefully get a college degree out of the deal, but was hoping he’d want to get into some other areas as well. So though over time I did read most of the MT threads, even the archives, it was all after the fact. They really would have helped me. I was not so gung ho MT and with other kids and other issues, once my MT kid was in college, it was really up to him. </p>
<p>The problem with art, theatre, creative writing, any writing, music, and any number of other professions that do not have enough paying jobs for those who want them, is that there a very, very , very few slots for so many who want one. My son who is in STEM, had his choice of jobs. There were simply more jobs than those who were seeking them in that field and who met the requirements for them. When you are talking about a part in a play, a paying part, a part paying a living wage, a part with some prestige to it, a Broadway show type part, the cattle call is just that and it’s frightening how many of those auditioning could do very well in that part. The odds are way, way against getting such parts. In jobs where that is the situaion, things can be dire in terms of getting anything for a very long time. </p>
<p>An old friend’s DD graduated from Columbia Journalism school after getting a BA from a very good LAC. She has been published in a number of things. Huffington Post, some other recognizable names. She’s an excellent writer, but getting published for pay these days is very, very difficult. Always has been but now with electronic media, finding any kind of job that guarantees regular pay has become just about impossible. I live right near a community of well known writers,and it’s been tough going for them, and many had already carved out quite a career with their writing. Getting any kind of predictable pay has become more difficult. For acting, I think it’s always been difficult, and has gotten more so, as more people are on the scene and there are more people with contacts. What performers tend to do is to stick with a group and go for opportunities where they are known rather than auditioning blindly, though my son’s room mate just got a great part on the road, a real paying plum on a cattle call. And my son did once too. More valuable than the parts, they extended their circles a bit more. Many of the opportunities do not come from open auditions so much as those by invitation so networking is important. </p>
<p>It’s the odds, which one cannot control, when there are only so many decent positions out there, and so many more going for them that make certain professions very difficult to net out a living wage. It’s not like theatre group or college or high school or summer stock where there is a closed group from which the roles are chosen. It’s wide open, baby, and some of those going for the parts have contacts that make them likelies and when you have none, the chances become astronomical.</p>
<p>Because they are adults when they embark on this journey, ultimately they are the ones who have to call a close to it. Many shift over slowly into other fields. They realize they don’t have the physical looks, the voice range, the dance skills, willingness to party to get roles too many time. Or they find they simply cannot find the time to audition and make ends meet even as they become more selective about their auditions. My son’s SO landed a job that pays too much, that she enjoys too much and is too much of a prize for to want to give up at this time in her life for a pursuit of a role in something that could close in a week or so, and then she’d lose this job. Ironically, a lot of theater positions are unsympathetic to actor or others who want time off to join a show. Would have thought they’d be the most understanding.</p>
<p>@cptofthehouse - it’s a rough, rough industry. I can only imagine how much harder it must be for actors (they certainly have the steepest hill to climb). Although it’s easy to rationalize the situation as one of supply and demand, input and output, profit and price, that’s not what art is all about. Art is about hopes and dreams. For all of time, art has been an industry that lifts some people up above the masses into those dreams, and crushes others, dragging them behind in the dust. Like I said. It’s rough. You’re very right that there will never be enough parts to satisfy every willing actor. That’s the way a market works. But I can’t think of another industry as competitive as theater or film. As unfair as it is, I suppose things will never change, so you just gotta do what you have to do and make the most of it. </p>
<p>The one thing I’ve grown to conclude is that there are things you can control, and things you can’t control. You can’t control how attractive you are. You can’t control race (which can get in the way of acting) or gender (which certainly serves as an obstacle in the “boys club” of filmmaking). You can’t control how much money your parents have, and most of all, you can’t control your level of innate talent (that “spark” or special something you’re born with - you know, when you’re a natural at something). Some aspiring singers are awful singers. Some aspiring writers can’t write to save their life. It’s a sad reality, but it’s true. </p>
<p>All one can hope for is an easy let down, and a transition into a more realistic yet equally satisfying and fulfilling career. Does failure in the arts really have to mean failure in life? Of course not! I have a family friend whose son went to acting school, and things didn’t work out for him while he was there. Over the years, his dream of being “the big star” slowly morphed into something more subdued, and now he owns his own private theater company and makes a great, fun living off of teaching students how to act. </p>
<p>But there are things you can control, and one of those is debt. You can control where you live (to some extent) and you can control how outgoing you are or how hard you work. I think what the game is all about is taking the things you can control and bending them to your will. Don’t shackle yourself with debt. Take what you can change and change it for the better. That’s really the best you can do for yourself. </p>
<p>" I have a family friend whose son went to acting school, and things didn’t work out for him while he was there. Over the years, his dream of being “the big star” slowly morphed into something more subdued, and now he owns his own private theater company and makes a great, fun living off of teaching students how to act."</p>
<p>I think this is one of the biggest mistakes young people can make going into this business. "Wanting to be the “big star”. My daughter has always said whenever anyone asks her if she want to be on Broadway, she always responds, “That would be wonderful but I am just hoping to be a working actor in whatever capacity that is”. She is realistic in her goals, yet is pursuing her love of the arts. If fame is what you are looking for you will give up very quickly….</p>
<p>bisouu…that is so true. In my working with many applicants to college theater programs, I can’t tell you how many state that their goal is to be on Broadway. So so so few will be on Broadway! It is hard enough to be a working actor, and that goal alone is more realistic. Sure, who wouldn’t want a chance to be on Broadway but if that is all one cares about, this is going to be a journey that may not end as hoped. </p>
<p>By the way, the example of that person is a good one because the theater degree still paid off because he is running his own theater company and teaching acting which he may not have been able to pursue without the college theater degree background. </p>
<p>My roommate from college pretty much runs a theater company, a well known, well regarded one with no theater or related degree. She started later in life. And oh, does she bring down the house when she gets a role. She didn’t quit her day job yet.</p>
<p>I figured that with my son, we bought him 4 more years of fun in what he wanted to do and the training to do more at that time while getting a degree. I am hoping he finds some way to parlay this into a making a living for himself that’s a bit more certain that what he has now. </p>
<p>“I can only imagine how much harder it must be for actors (they certainly have the steepest hill to climb)” IMHO, Opera Singers and Ballet Dancers probably have an even more limited skill set (professionally speaking- there are so few companies left these days)</p>
<p>Related yet unrelated, sort of, LOL. Encourage you all to get your hands on John Lithgow’s book “Drama: An Actor’s Education” – certainly a tale of education in a different time, and yet it is an interesting story of “making it” in the business despite setbacks. His father ran the McCarter Theatre in NJ for many years and could have been a stepping stone, and yet John chose to go it on his own, for a variety of reasons. So with a Harvard / LAMBDA education and tons of regional credits, he still “couldn’t get arrested” in NY theatre for years, but when he finally got his break, it all started happening. His is a tale of “survival jobs” and all the missteps along the way. Fascinating. Must-read for theatre parents, if only for “ammo” to encourage our kids to keep working and auditioning.</p>
<p>@MTTwinsinCA is it a good read for our kids too?</p>
<p>absolutely! </p>