NYU/Tisch Drama: a few questions pertaining to size

<p>As my D goes through the process of deciding on which MT program to attend (and believe me when I say she realizes she is super fortunate to have a choice!), she is finding she has some questions about the program at NYU/Tisch in particular. Most of the questions are related to the program’s size, which is very large in comparison to the other two she is seriously considering. I am hoping people here can help address these, as I am sure we are not the only ones wondering. I apologize in advance if these questions seem negative. Believe me when I say she has been in love with the idea of attending this school since she was about 12, so these are just issues we need answer to: :)</p>

<ul>
<li><p>with such a large number of students (both straight acting and musical theater students) auditioning for both mainstage musicals and plays (as well as other productions), I have heard it said that it is sometimes challenging to even get an audition for one of these productions. I remember reading posts in the past from parents of NYU kids who were upset because they did not even have the chance to sign up for an audition. Can someone comment on this?</p></li>
<li><p>does this larger size mean, in reality, that a large percentage of the drama students at Tisch are never cast in a mainstage production? </p></li>
<li><p>how does the senior year showcase work? I remember reading on this board or elsewhere that 12-15 students are chosen to showcase. Is this out of CAP21 only, or out of ALL Tisch drama students?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Thanks in advance, everyone! We are going to the accepted students’ event tomorrow and hope to get some answers there, but appreciate whatever anyone here chooses to share.</p>

<p>I'm not an expert here...but I believe that is accurate that the majority of students are never cast in a mainstage production. That being said, there are a bazillion of productions that happen every year. Some are studio productions, others are directing projects, others are GAP (student) plays.
Re: size... an advantage is the diversity of faculty and peers with whom a student can interact. The feeling within studios remains one of "family." And interactions/friendships/collaborations across studios are common. The network these students create is very broad.</p>

<p>NMR - I hope Soozie chimes in, but when considering & comparing (we did :)), remember that Tisch puts on something like +200 productions each year, so there are a ton of performance opportunities.</p>

<p>CAP has separate productions aside from the Tisch ones, some are open to other studios, some are "exclusive" to CAP kids, and some are "by year" (sophs, juniors & seniors). As in most colleges, freshman year performance opportunities are a but more "limited", but still available. Of course there are the extra-curricular actitivities kids are involved with (acapella groups, jazz, choirs etc.)</p>

<p>Senior year at Tisch is regarded by some as "one big showcase year" with industry experts attending tons of productions (and not just the mainstage ones), and so there is ample opportunity "to be seen".</p>

<p>NMR, My D is currently comparing schools and NYU is one of them. With regard to mainstage musicals, I think there are a lot of opportunities to perform at NYU in one capacity or another.
During my D's freshman year of high school she attended a conservatory and only did 2 small reviews. At first we were disappointed. But I realized that all the energy that could have been spent practicing was actually spent in intense training. The next year we had to move so, she attended a school that was more performance based. Needless to say her training has not been nearly what it was her first year.
With all that said, her focus is on where the best training is. I'm sure you're D is also looking at that. We both love NYU but are just a little worried about class size and individual attention.</p>

<p>betty, I would say that the idea environment would have a fair balance between process (actor/performer training and when I say "actor," I mean MT, of course) and performance, by which I mean onstage time putting that training into practice. My D has attended a conservatory-style actor training program (almost four hours a day of actor training with classes in acting, voice -- Lessac and Laban -- movement, etc.) that is focused mostly on process, though the kids do perform several times a year from sophomore year on, though not in gigantic plays and musicals with elaborate costumes and scenery, etc. As a result, my D loves the whole process as much, if not more, than the performance part, but I would also make the case that performing is an important part of the education process, which is why we are asking the question in the first place ..</p>

<p>One other thing to consider is the size of the faculty. When researching schools, we were impressed with the fact that while NYU/CAP21 admits a class size that is realitively larger than say CMU, its faculty size is in sync to keep class sizes small. This was reflected in the summer program that our S attended as well.</p>

<p>arrgh!
I hate typos....that would be "relatively"</p>

<p>bettyboop - there is lots of personal attention at Tisch. We know that some mistakenly think that Tisch's classes are so large that there will be no room for individual attention. However, the program is larger, the faculty is larger, and there simply are more classes than at other schools. All in all, CAP classes consist of 12-15 people max. There are VP classes that are geared to work on an individual student's personal voice type, strengths and weaknesses. Dance classes are leveled, and so you are pushed at every stage you are in, from beginner to advanced. </p>

<p>Some will think that the number of kids in the program is still too high, but my D feels that this simply allows you to collaborate, learn & work from and with more people. She actually likes this much better than the idea of hanging out with the same 10 people for the next 4 years. At the end of the day, it is again a matter of personal preference :D.</p>

<p>NMR, I agree that performance is an important part of the education process. Your D sounds well rounded. I guess I'm a little paranoid because her school ovvveeerrrr emphasized performance as opposed to proper training.</p>

<p>Gem, thanks for the faculty input. I've just seen so many ratio numbers.</p>

<p>Ooohh so Ms. Gorgeous informed me she was accepted to CAP 21 yay! There's still the decision to be made, though...the suspense is killing me. You must be so proud of all her college acceptances though. Is there anything else you're dying to know about NYU? I can probs answer.</p>

<p>P.S. Isn't CC resourceful?</p>

<p>NJ, this site is GREAT!</p>

<p>I am very proud of Asaka! To get into her two top choices is amazing...The only problem is which one???? </p>

<p>How do you feel about class size? Is it true there is no belting freshman year? (not a bad idea!) I guess the biggest question is how heavy are the academics? It's something we've heard over and over.</p>

<p>Class sizes at CAP 21 freshman year range from 12-15 students (about...they could also be around 10 or 11 depending on the class, but def no more than 15). Asaka might be a little troubled because they will try to tone down that powerful voice of hers freshman year. CAP students first year work on classical musical theatre and focus on vocal technique...students aren't even allowed to perform the songs (meaning act them). But it's good...I guess the point is providing technique to have a solid basis for future belting, pop/contemp MT, etc.</p>

<p>Even though it is a BFA program, she'll have to take quite a few General Education/Theatre Studies courses (at least 7 Theatre Studies courses including the two freshman year and 6 liberal arts courses). Freshman year also contains (at least for me) the dreaded Writing the Essay...defs a class I'm not particularly fond of, and Tisch students have to take it for TWO semesters. That said, it's easy to minor in Tisch, and a little harder to double major (she'd probably have to give up a semester of studio, unless she took a summer course or two...I'm trying to plan my double major right now without having to give up any studio). So she'd be able to explore a wide variety of interests in lieu of her professional training at CAP. The academics at NYU are not impossible...just don't take calculus or organic chemistry and she should be fine.</p>

<p>P.S. For a small clarification of the liberal arts thing, it would average one Theatre Studies course and one liberal arts course per semester in addition to studio after freshman year. Freshmen have to take a Writing the Essay and an introductory theatre studies course (Introduction to Theatre Studies and Intro to Theatre Production) each semester, in addition to 8 points of studio, for a total of 16 points a semester (each theatre studies and Writing the Essay or liberal arts course is 4 points). In addition, CAP students also have to enroll in a mandatory 2 point private voice elective each semester after the first one.</p>

<p>NJ,
O.K. now were overwhelmed! So, Cap21 is like a double major when coupled with NYU's academic schedule? I know most MT BFA programs are pretty intense but I don't think you're as saddled with academic courses.</p>

<p>Nooooo it's not an automatic double major. It's a BFA in Drama (including for CAP 21 students...it's not called a BFA Musical Theatre), but it is possible to double major, but probs she'd have to take a semester off from studio. If she wanted to put all of her liberal arts courses in a concentration they're enough for a minor (or double major, depending on whether or not she took a semester off studio/did summer courses). The amount of courses for each BFA really depends on each individual school...U Mich is a terrific school for MT and they still have quite heavy (for a BFA, anyway) academic requirements of its students. But of course, Asaka probably hasn't even thought of double majoring or minoring or maybe she doesn't want to, but either way she has to take at least 6 liberal arts courses (in humanities and science in the College of Arts and Science) to complete a BFA in Drama.</p>

<p>Would it be easier for Asaka to get another degree later with so much academic weight in this program? I know there are the Tisch scholarships but are there any specific to Cap21? Are those awarded in the initial FA letter sent out? I'm asking because Webster sent two diff FA award letters. The second one offered additional scholarship money after the MT offer.</p>

<p>As a parent of a current junior, I will make an attempt to address several of the varied questions raised on this thread so far. </p>

<p>A general comment about the size of CAP21.....I often read on CC on other threads about how CAP21 is a bigger program and people thus assume more kids in a class and less individualized attention. But that is not the case. Everyone in your year in CAP21 is broken into sections of approx. 15 students and you take the core studio classes with those 15 students for the full year, except the students are mixed among groups for the three dance classes per year because those are by level (four levels of each exist per year/grade). These classes are still about 15 students but just not the same core 15 as your voice/speech, acting, voice/singing classes are with. Then, the next year, the kids are mixed up and you are in a new core grouping of 15ish. This class size is in the same ballpark as many of the BFA programs discussed on CC. The amount of attention is similar. If in a voice class, you work on your individual material in class. In acting classes, you work on your scenes with partners in class. The classes are a good size and the faculty come to know you very well. </p>

<p>Size is a personal preference and one to be weighed. I can tell you one advantage that some, including my child, see in a bigger program and that is that you have a larger social circle in your program (maybe 60 kids in your year as opposed to just 10-15 in your year) and get to mix with more types of people. As well, in a small program, there are just a few faculty members whom you work with all four years. In a Tisch studio, you will be exposed to working with a variety of faculty over the course of the four years. That has some benefits and I am just pointing it out. While NYU itself is a very large university, Tisch is a smaller college within it (you mix with other Tischies from other studios in the Theater Studies classes or in productions) and then your studio (ie., CAP21) is a small family within that and you spend at least three full days with that small family (not counting rehearsals). Some may like the idea of a family of ten for four years and some may feel stifled by that. It is a matter of preference. </p>

<p>I'm going to hit some questions raised here out of order....</p>

<p>The question about belting.....In CAP21, yes, it is true that during freshman year, they focus on the legit voice and on technique mostly (I'm just talking of the singing curriculum). Just as a point of reference, my own D's strengths entering college were that she has a very strong belt voice and that kinda is her forte. I often read on CC of people wanting programs that align with their strengths, such as if they are not really a dancer, they don't want a program with challenging dance. I know my D feels differently. She isn't at college to show off her strengths and keep doing those things but to learn in her areas of weakness and to be challenged. She did not mind not belting freshman year as she had to focus on her soprano sound and she learned by leaps and bounds to improve her legit soprano voice. In the next two years, those with the forte of soprano are challenged by belting and the pop/rock terms, etc. You get it all at CAP21 and you are forced to not keep doing what you are good at but to learn new things and be stretched. After the first year, they do work on all the genres in the MT repertoire which certainly includes belting (the various contemporary eras and pop and so forth). They work a lot on acting/performing songs. The curriculum includes it all. It is important that you can do it all, given the various types of musicals today. </p>

<p>About the academics....you go to studio for training three full days per week. On the other two days, you have a theater studies course (there are required ones for all freshmen but then you choose them the remaining semesters) and a liberal arts course (the freshmen ones are required ones in writing related to the arts but after that you choose from very very broad areas...liberal choices). Unlike Nocca above, my D loved the writing courses in freshmen year and she is an avid writer. She has also enjoyed all the other theater studies and liberal arts classes to date. One reason that Tisch was attractive to her (among many reasons) was that there was SOME (not a lot though) liberal arts because she values being a knowledgeable person and likes learning. These are NOT a necessary evil to her whatsoever. She enjoys them. If you only want to train and have hardly any other courses or hardly any theater studies classes, NYU may not be for you. She also values challenge and likes that NYU is a selective university and thus the classes tend to be more challenging than at some colleges that happen to house a BFA program but are not selective colleges overall. The choice of classes is not restrictive....it is not like you have to take math or science or stuff like that if you don't want. It is pretty wide open within some broad parameters. Also, all CAP21 students take private voice which they must fit in during the two days they are not at the studio. </p>

<p>
[quote]
with such a large number of students (both straight acting and musical theater students) auditioning for both mainstage musicals and plays (as well as other productions), I have heard it said that it is sometimes challenging to even get an audition for one of these productions. I remember reading posts in the past from parents of NYU kids who were upset because they did not even have the chance to sign up for an audition. Can someone comment on this?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is not challenging at all to get an audition for a show. I know you may have read someone comment that their child did not know about an audition and didn't sign up but most kids stay abreast of this and this becomes a nonissue. In fact, I just asked my D about this a few days ago since I knew you wanted to know about it. She has always been able to audition for anything she has wanted to while at NYU so far, btw. She said that the fall Mainstage musical auditions started sign ups this past Monday and she just didn't realize it and maybe she wasn't paying attention to which day the sign ups went up but she also is not in CAP21 this semester where this would be a buzz among her CAP friends much more than her current studio pals. She said she went immediately to the head of who handles the sign ups that same day since she saw the sign up sheets were full and they said that anyone who wants to audition WILL be seen and she is to come and while she doesn't have an appointment time, she will be seen. All the other auditions she has attended, she has signed up. I have not heard this to be an issue with any of her friends and all have tried out for many shows without a problem. A student must keep on top of things as they don't hold your hand with this stuff and there are MANY productions all over Tisch and it is not like everyone is talking about just one at any given time. I think this is one question to check off the list as it just isn't an issue there based on what my D has said. </p>

<p>
[quote]
* does this larger size mean, in reality, that a large percentage of the drama students at Tisch are never cast in a mainstage production?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The short answer is that not every Tisch student will appear in a "mainstage Tisch production" during their time at Tisch. BUT (there is always a but, eh?).....a couple things to help you understand this......For one thing, this is apples to oranges when comparing BFA programs because at some small BFA programs the main shows available to the students are the mainstage shows...that is the core of production opportunties at many schools. But that is NOT the case whatsoever at Tisch. There are four or five mainstage shows per year that students from ANY studio can audition for and only one of these is a musical. We were not sure if our child would ever appear in the mainstage musical, though we were not worried if she'd ever appear in a show while at Tisch. This year, she was a lead in the mainstage musical and last year she was not cast in it. </p>

<p>Let me explain some of the MANY production opportunities at Tisch. For one thing....in CAP21 alone......there is always a fall musical (this year was Urinetown) only open to CAP21 students (much smaller group vying for casting than the mainstage musical) AND there is always a musical for JUST second year Cappies and another musical for JUST third year Cappies. So for the sophomore year musical, you may have 60 students eligible who could audition if they wanted and for the junior year musical, maybe 40 are in the class (the class gets smaller as some do a different studio their last two years which is common at Tisch). I remember asking your question of my D when she was choosing Tisch and I remember her answer...she said that the number of students vying for the soph or jr. CAP shows was similar to the number vying in another BFA program among four years/grades and she had a good point. The funny thing is, after all of that, my D has never auditioned for a CAP21 show because for each one that has been put on while she was there (not counting freshman year when you are not allowed to be in shows), she could not try out as she was already in ANOTHER show outside of CAP21 that would conflict! </p>

<p>That leads me to the many other production opportunities at Tisch. One kind of production are the GAP shows which are the student run productions for all of Tisch. They put on musicals and plays that are very high quality but on a smaller budget. My D has musically directed one of these (Into the Woods). Then each studio puts on many productions just for their own studio students. Some studios open their productions to other studios and for instance, my D was in a faculty directed musical at Strasberg. Then, in Playwrights Horizons, there are students studying directing and in their final year, they direct their own shows and my D has been in their musicals. There are student created original pieces such as at ETW and many of her friends have been in those casts (including musicals) and she musically directed one of those and hopes to write/produce/perform in her own musical next year at ETW. CAP21 also has readings of musicals that you can audition to be in. There are at least 100 productions per year at Tisch, and so the mainstage is NOT the only production arena. </p>

<p>As well, I can't begin to tell you of the performance opportunities that come some students' way by the nature of who you get to work with and come in contact with by being at NYU and so many faculty, alum, and current students are involved in projects in the city. My D has musically directed a professional premier in NYC which came about through a faculty member who is a Tony nominated composer/playwright. This same person has hired her now to be the musical director (as well as perform in) the original musical completely written by the cast each year for what is called The Reality Show (it is not a reality show though!). She is being paid a lot to musically direct, as well as help write the show with the rest of the cast and perform it at Madison Square Garden for all of NYU's incoming freshmen in August. I just thought of another opportunity that had crossed her path in freshman year. A Tony winning director came to direct a new musical at CAP21 that was not for CAP students (CAP produces new works and is not just for NYU) and the cast was made up of Equity Actors. This director had seen my child and a boy in her class perform before they had gotten to CAP21 and wanted to cast both of them in this production. They went to the head of CAP about it but understandably they could not be cast because the rule is that freshmen can't be in shows. Had they not been freshmen, she could have been and I mention this as another opportunity that happened at CAP21 (the male friend/classmate is in the original cast of Spring Awakening, btw, and left CAP21). </p>

<p>Also, if you love to sing, you can try out for NYU's award winning coed rock/pop a cappella group, The N'Harmonics. My D has been in this group since the start of her freshman year and it has been a significant part of her experience there. She is the musical director now of the group, as well as a performer in it. She writes many of their arrangements. They perform a lot both at NYU and at venues in the city and at other venues and colleges outside of NY. They compete in the ICCA collegiate a cappella competitions. In her first two years, they won the Northeast Quaterfinals and went to the Northeast Semi-Finals. This year, they just won the Northeast Championship and will compete in a couple of weeks at the International Finals at Lincoln Center! They also perform at Joe's Pub. </p>

<p>My D is also in a theater group that she and some of her fellow Tisch Scholars started and she put on a show with various types of artists last spring and her part was her own original short musical. She is putting on a street performance this month that is original with this group. She has turned down some opportunities in the city that have come up through networking with her fellow students and faculty as she can't take more on but I mention this to say that there are a plethora of performance opportunities. Some of the students are in summer shows that came about through various graduates who are now directing shows in the city....my D has done one in the city as have her friends. Then, on top of formal performance opportunities, the students perform IN class a lot.....they perform songs that are critiqued. They have demos. They perform choreographed dances. They put up scenes, both acting and also musical theater scenes. My D says she is very happy that they were not allowed to do shows during freshmen year as it allowed the entire focus to be on training and she feels she learned so much that she was more able to take on the challenges of the productions such as the mainstage one she just finished which was very challenging and was actually a premier and they were changing it all along the way. Another performance opportunity (and this is just my own kid and not all the other opportunities I know her friends have had) is tonight....she is performing in Boston. The writers/composers of the Tisch Mainstage Musical have taken three of the leads of the production up to Boston to be in a cast with professional actors where they are putting on a concert/excerpt version of the musical tonight and they only had yesterday and today to rehearse with the professionals. While being in the mainstage show was great, the number of performance opportunities she has had while at Tisch are numerous and she has constantly been in one show of some type at any given time (if not more) except the limitations of freshmen year performance (but she played piano in Full Monty that year). So, if you ONLY examine the Mainstage production opportunity chances, it is a very limited view at Tisch whereas that may be the main avenue for performing at another BFA program. Again, CAP21 alone puts on a few musicals per year. Mainstage is for ALL of Tisch. </p>

<p>
[quote]
* how does the senior year showcase work? I remember reading on this board or elsewhere that 12-15 students are chosen to showcase. Is this out of CAP21 only, or out of ALL Tisch drama students?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There are several different showcases.....I will explain. First, in CAP21, for JUST their own CAP students, for anyone who has stayed in that studio for 3 years, they can take the showcase semester their fourth year in CAP. During that semester, they bring in various casting directors and agents to work with the students in workshops on auditioning, etc. This culminates in a senior showcase for just those CAP students. There is one in fall and one in spring of senior year, depending which semester you do that program in CAP21. Any CAP senior can be in it (not by audition) as long as they have studied in that studio for three years. The OTHER showcases are for ALL of Tisch and are called Industry Nights. There are two industry nights.....one is for MT and one is for straight acting. These two showcases are by audition only. Conceivably, if you are a CAP student, you could be in the CAP showcase and an Industry Night showcase for Tisch. Again, not all get into the Tisch Industry Nights. I believe they just had the MT Industry Night as my D commented that her close male friend who is in N'Harmonics with her, got a lot of responses from agents from it. She will try out for that next year. On top of these showcases, agents can and are invited to any productions at Tisch because well, Tisch is right in NYC and so industry people can be and are invited to shows and you can do that yourself if you want. I even know of three of my D's pals who recently graduated (two have major credits) who put on their own showcase in NYC and asked my D to arrange one of their songs for it. There are just a lot of opportunities for exposure when you are right in the middle of the action as well as many industry folk get involved with NYU and many faculty at NYU are professionals in the industry in NYC as well. When my D musically directed a professional piece in the city this past fall, it was NOT affiliated with NYU at all but the composer/writer is on the faculty. </p>

<p>I hope that hits some of the questions raised here. I am just a Tisch parent, however. Do ask current students and if you go to Saturday in the Square, there are current Tisch reps for all studios whom you can meet and fire away questions. Enjoy!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Would it be easier for Asaka to get another degree later with so much academic weight in this program?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This doesn't make sense to me. For one thing, my own kid is not double majoring (that is possible in the BFA program but uncommon) and also has no minor. Simply......over four years, she must take 8 liberal arts classes (approx. one/semester) and 7 Theater Studies classes on top of all the BFA training classes. This may be more than some other BFA schools but there are definitely others that have some liberal arts as part of the BFA degree requirements. Many BFA programs have about 65% BFA training and 35% liberal arts, for example. You must examine the curriculum requirements for all the programs you are considering. In simple terms, my D was taking six training classes, private voice and two academic style classes (one in theater studies, one in liberal arts) each semester. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I know there are the Tisch scholarships but are there any specific to Cap21? Are those awarded in the initial FA letter sent out?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, there are no scholarships specific to CAP21. Your scholarship offer should have come either with or at the same time approximately as your acceptance. I know that my D's scholarship was listed in her financial aid award letter....one letter for everything....scholarships and need based aid. </p>

<p>Her scholarship is a Tisch one but there are no CAP ones..... CAP21 is a private studio in NYC and is not run by Tisch. Tisch contracts with CAP21 to train their Tisch students in MT. CAP21 could not award you a scholarship to NYU because CAP21 is NOT NYU.</p>

<p>Thank you so much! You're insight and hands on knowledge is very helpful; That's what we need. I think you and NOCCA Junior have helped my D make a decision.</p>

<p>So, what's the decision....inquiring minds wanna know ! :confused:<br>
:D</p>