Question About NYU/ Tisch: Senior Showcase for SOME Seniors But Not ALL Seniors???

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
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<p>We had a tour of NYU and info session at Tisch today. Loved the info session format----seven people in a conference room with a senior admissions person, very nice lady whose name I cannot remember. (Five schools in four days = Too Many!)</p>

<p>Son asked if they have a senior showcase (assuming they did, just wanted to hear about it) and the admissions officer tells us that the SS does not include ALL the seniors, only SOME of them, and that the students have to audition to even be IN their senior showcase! </p>

<p>Is this their answer to their no-cut policy? She said the reason they don't have all the students participate is that the industry professionals wouldn't sit still for all those people---that they'd just leave. </p>

<p>We were very surprised at the way this was presented---as though the school couldn't possibly have TWO senior showcases, or even three, spaced out several months from each other? Or that the school---after taking $200K from each student over a four-year-period doesn't OWE it to the students to give them a senior showcase?</p>

<p>I don't even know what to think about that. They tell the benefits of going to a bigger program, but this seems to us (and I don't know who it bothered more, me or DS) to be a significant downside to Tisch's large size. And they make it clear there is no cut system, but isn't making kids audition for their own showcase the cruelest cut of all? </p>

<p>Curious to hear what other people think about this. Remember, we'd just come from the Juilliard tour where they only accept 18 students, but where there is NO competition for roles, they are all assigned according to what the faculty thinks the student needs to learn or experience, and where they have a showcase for drama seniors both in New York AND in Los Angeles. After hearing that, Tisch's practice seemed ...well, unenlightened seems the kindest way to describe it.</p>

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<p>So, is my question just incredibly naive???</p>

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<p>skipsmom,
I can't answer your question, but there certainly are others on this board who can. When SoozieVT sees your post, I'm sure she'll respond. She has a child at Tisch and also counsels potential theater majors.</p>

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<p>Thanks, mom. I was beginning to think this was something that everyone already knows and takes for granted.... and of course it still may be, but I was wondering if I'd inadvertently put my foot in it. :)</p>

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<p>My daughter goes to Tisch Drama and her studio has its own Showcase. I am sure the other studios do the same. All students at Tisch can also audition for the Tisch Showcase so they have double the chance to be seen by agents.( I know not all will get in the Tisch showcase but some will)</p>

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<p>Echoing what actressmom just said: my D is a freshman at Tisch/CAP and was well aware when she chose NYU/Tisch that if she wants to be part of the big Tisch Industry showcase event, she will be competing with drama students from all over Tisch. However, she was also well aware that if she remains in CAP21 for her entire stay at NYU, she can be part of the CAP21 showcase without having to audition for it. In fact, unless I am mistaken, kids at Tisch drama have two opportunities to be showcased: in their own studio showcases <em>and</em> - if they are lucky enough to be chosen - in the big Tisch Industry showcase</p>

<p>When my D was making decisions about where to go to school, showcases were a very small consideration in comparison to quality of training, quality of academic classes and exposure to industry professionals.</p>

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<p>How odd that the admissions officer did not mention that; she merely said that "not everyone can be in the showcase" and did not say that each studio has its own. There is no way we missed that bit of information because we were sitting directly across from her at a table.</p>

<p>If the "big Tisch industry showcase" is where students are seen by the greatest possible number of people, though, what a shame for the students who do not make it! Yes, perhaps it mirrors "real life" after school, but isn't the school supposed to prepare and help the students enter the job market? </p>

<p>That will definitely be a question to ask on future visits to other schools, so I'm glad it came up in our round of preliminary visits. I agree that it isn't a huge consideration in and of itself when choosing a program, mamarose, but this issue is a clear line of demarcation between the bigger program vs. the smaller ones and sometimes a preponderance of the "small stuff" helps sway a decision.</p>

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<p>skipsmom, </p>

<p>It's true that there are individual studio showcases in addition to the Tisch showcase. I don't think it's unusual that this wasn't mentioned in the information session. Those sessions are meant, usually, to give an overview of a program. They have not, in the past, detailed what goes on in the individual studios during those sessions, and it appears that that hasn't changed. </p>

<p>The showcase question is one that is given varied levels of importance by individual students. Some schools do not have showcases at all, some have them where everyone participates, and yet others have them by audition only. When we were looking at schools, it was a minor issue on my D's list. There were too many other much more important factors in her consideration of where she was going to apply/audition.</p>

<p>If your son has decided that a showcase is a top priority for him, then I wouldn't let the way that it's handled at Tisch discourage him from applying. The reality is that, most Tisch kids will have been seen by more industry professionals before their senior year than will see them on the night of the showcase. Tisch has over 100 productions, of varied sizes, every year. There are industry professionals present at probably 99% of them. Additionally, it is not unusual to have these same types of individuals present during studio classes, as visitors, as friends of the instructors, as speakers and master class leaders. In my Ds studio, I don't think a week went by that didn't include at least one such visitor.</p>

<p>There may be reasons to choose not to apply/audition for Tisch (it's definitely not the school for everyone), but this issue shouldn't be one of them! :)</p>

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<p>You aleady got some great responses, including from three other Tisch parents. I'll add mine anyway, as I am also a Tisch parent. My daughter is a senior there now. </p>

<p>Like the above posters, my D did not consider a senior showcase as a real important factor in choosing a college theater program. It was minor to her. I do think a showcase is a positive thing to bridge a student from college to the industry. But it is not the end all and be all and the real important thing is the training and experience and how that fits the student. </p>

<p>That said....here is what I know and in relation to my own kid, as well.....</p>

<p>Her original studio was CAP21, the MT studio. She spent five semesters in that studio. My D knew when she chose to attend Tisch that CAP21 has its own showcase (this is about the fourth year that this is in place at that studio) that is NOT by audition and is open to any student who has been in the CAP21 studio for three years prior to the showcase semester. Other studios may have this too (as another parent said her child's studio has this). As well, Tisch itself has TWO Industry Showcases, one for Acting and one for MT which are by audition and so they are selective as a small percentage of Tishies get in. I can see why the information session may not have mentioned the showcases in individual studios because that info session is pretty much focused on Tisch itself and not specific studios (which not only number 8, but are mostly not run by Tisch itself). </p>

<p>As far as my own kid goes, she switched into Experimental Theater Wing studio for her final three semesters, even though she had loved CAP21. I won't give her reasons for wanting to do ETW here as they are not relevant. But she actually had the option of going back to CAP for the showcase semester there (the guaranteed one) and GAVE UP THAT OPPORTUNITY. The showcase was NOT as important to her as the things she wanted to do in ETW...the training and also she has written her own musical she will be staging there this semester. She opted to audition for the Tisch Industry Night for MT, even though there were no guarantees of getting into it. She is fortunate that she was chosen and will be in it next month. So, that all worked out for her. But she could have had the guaranteed showcase at CAP21 (and done both conceivably as a few friends are), but it was less important to her than what she is truly at Tisch to do. </p>

<p>As AlwaysAMom wrote, just being at NYU and in NYC as well, has some advantages that other schools can't replicate as completely. There are industry people who come into studio frequently and attend productions or even teach at Tisch and so there is a lot of networking and opportunities that come from that as well. </p>

<p>Also, I believe that many agents who attend a studio showcase like CAP21, also attend the Tisch showcase and so there is overlap in terms of who sees the showcases and I'm not sure that is the difference as you are assuming. Just for example, tonight my D told me that one of her closest friends who just did the CAP showcase, just signed with a well known agent and she is also doing the Tisch MT showcase with my D next month. My D's boyfriend got an agent at the Tisch showcase last year but she has friends who secured one at the CAP showcase as well. And.....one of her best friends and roomies at college in her program who dates back years with my D in theater here in our rural state, got an agent at CAP21 last semester as the agent came into the class and made her an offer BEFORE the showcase. On the day she graduated Tisch this past December, she was offered a lead in a National Tour and just left to start that job. She didn't even need the showcase but she did it anyway at CAP last month. These stories are not unsual. </p>

<p>In any case, my D's experiences at Tisch have been fantastic and the school has been everything she could have ever wished for and much more. We could not be more pleased with the things she has been able to do there.</p>

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<p>Just to reiterate what AlwaysAMom wrote.....my D has worked with several well known industry professionals while at Tisch. Off the top of my head, two have Tony nominations and one has his show (writer/director) on Broadway right now. She turned down a casting opportunity she was offered at Tisch this semester (too many things on her plate) with a known actress in the industry who came to do a workshop with Tischies. Some of her regular teachers are also well known and well connected in the industry. She has even done professional work for pay that has come out of her work with these industry folk at Tisch. From her time at Tisch, she has quite a few names on her resume that are well known whom she has gotten to work with. </p>

<p>I also would not liken a showcase that is by audition to a cut system. In a cut system, you are denied the education. At Tisch, you receive the education and training. That is what they are there for. No school can guarantee you a job upon graduation. A showcase is presentation to industry professionals. It can help a student be exposed to agents and so it is a positive thing. They have non-audition showcases at the studio level and are seen by agents there. The Tisch Industry showcase is by audition. I don't have a problem with that. Even if EVERY Tischie could be in that particular showcase, it doesn't mean he/she would secure an agent through it. The agents PICK and choose who they see in a showcase to make an offer of representation to.</p>

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<p>By the way, this showcase issue is not so much the difference between big and small programs. For example, Otterbein is a small program and a student must audition to be in their showcase. This is true at OCU as well.</p>

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<p>My D's summer stock job at a small Equity theater after freshman year, came out of the artistic director of that theater observing my D's acting class one day and singling her out and asking her to come to their theater for a final audition.</p>

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<p>Thanks for these additional replies; they are very helpful, and from your descriptions of personal experience I can see that the overall school senior showcase (or lack thereof) has not made a significant impact on the student's job prospects.</p>

<p>The way this was presented to us was not very "user-friendly," and that's the best way I can put it. I guess if I was an admissions officer talking to prospective students and their parents I would have added that each studio has its own showcase, just to prevent her previous statements from sounding just as they did---offhand and dismissive. It's important to give families an accurate representation of what goes on at the school, but it's really NOT necessary to make it sound more negative than it really is.</p>

<p>Having seen so many schools in such a short time (and only several so far) it is both true and unfortunate that one's initial impression makes such an impact and is often focussed on the one person with whom you speak. Even though it would be disruptive and is obviously impossible, I wish that there was some way to visit the classes in session! Our son is already committed for a summer program elsewhere, and the only studio visit (according to the admissions lady) is in April AFTER the students receive their acceptances, when the visit has no bearing on their decision.</p>

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<p>skipsmom,</p>

<p>I agree that it can be off-putting to have a negative experience with a school official during the process. I think it's important to keep it in perspective, though, and not allow it to override what may possibly be a good choice for your student. It's been many years since I went through this process with my D, and several subsequent years that I've participated here on CC. Many students and their families have had very annoying issues in dealing with Carnegie Mellon, there have been reports here on CC probably every admissions season! As I've jokingly said many times, we're still waiting for the promised refund of the audition fee, and my D graduated from Tisch two years ago! :) My point is, that it would be a mistake for students not to apply to CMU because of the many foibles of its staff and system. It's an excellent school which provides excellent training and that's the bottom line.</p>

<p>It's too bad that your son didn't get the opportunity to visit a studio class but if you don't know any current students, it's a difficult thing to arrange. My D was able to get permission many times in her years there to bring a prospective student along to class. This, as far as I know, is how most kids do it, through friends or acquaintances who are already at the school. With the number of students who visit NYU, it truly is impossible to arrange studio class visits for them.</p>

<p>Good luck to your son on this journey.</p>

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<p>Re: negative experiences with CMU! They not only lost my kid's application (complete with recommendations, transcripts, test scores and so forth!) to precollege, but we were never able to successfully plan a visit to the drama department so that my D could observe and sit in on classes there. She and I must each have called and emailed a half dozen times, to no avail. She did attend the precollege program in the summer and loved it, so we put that administrative stuff down to, well, administrative stuff! In other words, even though not being able to arrange a visit made us feel as if the school really didn't care about making a good impression on new/prospective students, we understood that that wasn't a reflection of the quality of the program.</p>

<p>I completely and totally understand prospective students' frustration at not being able to observe classes at Tisch drama and frankly, I don't agree with that policy at all! However, I do have to respect it. My own kid, who is now at Tisch/CAP21, would have loved to be able to sit in on classes at NYU in the same way she did at other schools, but because of that policy, she couldn't and had to rely on talking to many other current and former students in making her assessment of the program. The bottom liine is that she LOVES her program and knows she made the right decision. It's the right place for her. </p>

<p>Best of luck to your son as you go through this college selection process!</p>

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<p>skipsmom, I can't emphasize enough that at ANY college, it is important that the visit to campus include more than an information session and tour with a tour guide. Those are great starting points, but just not enough. It is imperative to talk to current students and not just one, but many, to garner a variety of perspectives and first hand experiences. Talking to faculty is also important. And so on. I know many people who judge a college by their tour guide or an information session. And that would be a shame as those things are not necessarily indicative of what it would be like to attend the school. </p>

<p>Like others mentioned here, I won't take the time to go into details but have posted in the past, of numerous administrative errors at CMU we experienced as well but the program is excellent. I recall one thing I found irritating on the visit to Brown in the admissions office (they would only give their brochure book to the seniors who were attending the information session and not juniors who had traveled there) but my D ended up attending and loved the school immensely. </p>

<p>I'm glad you are even posting here, because as you can see, a lot of information just was posted on the issue you brought up....way more than you could have garnered from talking to one person at the school.</p>

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<p>Just one more thing about a senior showcase (at ANY college)......for one thing, not everyone who is in the showcase will get offers from agents. Agents pick and choose who in the showcase is of interest to them. So, being in showcase doesn't automatically translate to agent representation. Another thing is that the showcase doesn't necessarily lead to a job. One of the prime purposes is to get agent representation which can be very helpful when it comes to auditioning. Auditiions then can lead to jobs. A showcase is just one avenue to hoping to be seen by agents who may offer to respresent the student. </p>

<p>By the way, if you are a student at NYU, you can invite agents and industry professionals to your shows. My D has written her own musical which she will stage and perform in this spring and she mentioned she might invite industry people to it. At NYU, industry people are often in attendence at many of the shows. I recall one time last year, my D got an email from the director of the Mainstage Musical in which she played one of the leads, telling her that a composer in NYC saw the show and asked if he could have her contact information for his files and was it OK to pass it on. That kind of things happens a lot at NYU, given its location.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for these thoughtful, and thought-provoking, replies! </p>

<p>We live in a very small town in a rural area, and all of this is new to us. Our older children's college admissions process was not nearly as daunting ---or perhaps, like childbirth, it's something you forget :) </p>

<p>We know one student in a theater/musical theater program, and he is at CMU. Other than that, we don't have any contacts with students, teachers, anyone, so he can't call and arrange visits or chat about programs. I've told our son he needs to start looking at archived posts here, and he promises to after the current play he's in has run its course. </p>

<p>He had a great vocal session with a teacher in NYC during our stay, which was a great positive of the trip. We really enjoyed seeing the schools, but have found that after the initial visit he's more confused now than he was before! </p>

<p>I strongly believe in the audition/selection process, and feel that he WILL find a place that suits him in terms of location, training and temperament, and that values him as a potential student. It is just a painful process visiting, reading, sifting through all the material, and still not really KNOWING if you'd be happy there. Wouldn't it be nice if each school had a week-long summer program? He could do five or six and make a truly informed decision afterwards! </p>

<p>Question: are these programs like "regular" colleges in that you are informed by April 1 and must reply by the first week of May? IF he were to be accepted by more than one school he could perhaps visit then, before the decision (and $$) was due. </p>

<p>Again, thank you all for your obvious patience and understanding. I realize that I know precious little about this whole process, system, and way of life---and it shows up painfully in my posts. I do appreciate your patience!</p>

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<p>skipsmom, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying here, but yes, many of the college/university/conservatory BFA programs notify kids of their decisions on April 1 and expect a commitment by May 1. However, some do notify earlier (following auditions), which gives kids who are accepted a bit more time to visit and so forth if they haven't already done so. </p>

<p>The truth is that even if a student did participate in a precollege program, the student wouldn't have a 100% accurate idea of what the real college program entails and what it is like. You really can't know until you are there and doing the work in earnest. That's why a small percentage of all college freshmen (not just those in BFA programs in acting and musical theater, by any means!) find that they are at the wrong college/university/program during the first or second semester and leave. It is almost impossible to judge "fit" until you are there, though there are things you can do to screen out places that would be absolutely wrong. </p>

<p>Yes, the BFA admissions process is very, very tough and demanding and very different, I think, from regular college admissions. During my D's process last year, I found myself envying the kids who could just send in some essays, transcripts, recommendations and so on and then just wait. On the other hand, I wouldn't have traded that time with my kid for the world.</p>

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<p>skipsmom, we too live in a rural area and very few people in this region apply to BFA programs. </p>

<p>As far as knowing kids on campus to contact......in my D's case, she knew kids at many schools on her list who she met through her summer theater program (she had many older friends). But even if you did not have that.....you could put feelers out right here on CC's MT or Theater forum and ask if anyone knows current students you can contact. With my advisees, I give them current student contacts (even though they do not know these students) whom I know.....who are either friends of my daughter's or even people I have met online. Thus, on their campus visits or even just via email, I can pass on contacts. So, you could do that as well. Also, you can call a school and ask if they have any current students willing to be contacted or willing to meet with you while on campus. For instance, while my D did have friends at NYU and spent the night in the dorms with them and attended some studio classes they got her into, we also called Tisch and asked if they had a current Tisch/CAP21 student who would meet with us. They provided a current student who met with us for the hour before the Tisch Info. session. He was great and answered many questions. In fact, there were others in this same lounge area who were waiting for the general Tisch info session who apparently had no idea you could meet with a current student and so we invited them to join our discussion which we had arranged in advance. So, look into this sort of thing on your college visits. CC also has a lot of parents and students in all of these programs....a wealth of contacts right here.</p>