O, English and Rhetoric, What is the difference?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>Hello, guys, I am happy I finally choose Berkeley for the place I will spend 4 years(hopefully not longer like 5 or 6 years to graduate). Again thanks a lot for your advice you have given me.</p>

<p>I am now choosing courses I wanna take for the first sememster. I am choosing between English R1A and Rhetoric R1A. Will you tell me what is the difference? Do they have different emphasis on developing student's different skills? I want to take a class which helps me to write better thesis to reflect my analysis( I hope to become a good analyst who writes clearly in argumentive essays. Which class I should take?</p>

<p>Oh, sorry, one thing to mention. I come from China and that is my first semester in American education system.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for your suggestions!</p>

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<p>Mainly different types of things to read and write about (although they are all humanities-based). A larger list of Reading and Composition courses can be found here:</p>

<p>[Office</a> of Undergraduate Advising: Reading and Composition Courses at Berkeley](<a href=“http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/requirement/rccourses.html]Office”>http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/requirement/rccourses.html)</p>

<p>Rhetoric, as the name implies, is supposed to emphasize more argumentative writing and reading of others’ argumentative writing.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your link, ucbalumnus. But I still get lost after comparing what two departments say on their websites… Urrr, little bit vague.</p>

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<p>I’m biased, obviously, because I’m a Rhetoric major, but you MUST take a rhetoric course at Berkeley. And I’m not talking about the R&C ones, although I guess if you want a very slow introductory course to the Rhetoric field, then go for it.</p>

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<p>@suigen, forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does a Rhetoric major do? I’m an English major, and Berkeley’s website advises to take some rhetoric courses, but they’re pretty vague on what you actually do in class. Is it just writing argumentative essays and learning logic and jargon? What do you have as reading material? Thanks!</p>

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<p>Yes, suigenL. What KeelyMK asked is also what I want to ask! Would you like to explain in details what rhetoric courses do (Maybe you can give me a sample lecture and discuss section you attend). Thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>Hello KeelyMK. Would you also like to talk about the Intro English Course yfrom your perspective? Thanks!</p>

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<p>Wanyifu, unfortunately I really don’t know how Berkeley does things yet. I am transfering there from a community college in San Diego as a junior, so all of my lower division English courses will (hopefully) been done already. But good luck, you seem very smart and I hope you have a great experience at Berkeley :)</p>

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<p>I’m a Rhetoric major, but I took Comparative Lit R1B. I suspect that all the four-unit R&C classes are basically the same format and have the same basic requirements (eg. both halves of R&C teach research skills and the writing process, require a certain number of pages for papers), but are taught by people in different departments and in different class sizes. For example, some departments have professors teaching sections, some have graduate students, and some have two graduate students for larger sections. And the material they go over vary according to the instructors’ interest; my section was taught a comparative lit grad student with an interest in slackerism in literature in film, so that was the topic of the section. But basically I believe R&C classes aren’t hardcore intros to their department offerings.</p>

<p>I recommend you look at the course listings for the English and Rhetoric departments and pick a section whose topic you find interesting. It helped me a lot my first semester that I had read/watched half of the material for my R1B class before the class started, out of interest and from other classes. :)</p>

<p>Also consider class sizes. I prefer smaller classes and it seems most of the Rhetoric R&C classes this semester are 34, which is bigger than the average 17 of English ones. Might not matter to you, some people like larger classes.</p>

<p>(The Rhetoric course descriptions aren’t all up yet, but I see Julie Napolin’s teaching two sections. I highly recommend her!)</p>

<p>As for what Rhetoric majors do/read, check out the course descriptions page’s book lists. Basically, a lot of philosophy, political theory, and often in comparison with literature. Some classes have an emphasis on film. It’s really interdisciplinary, more so than the English department, I think (…though I always meant to take an English class to check out a major…I still haven’t taken any English classes). Anyway, I just recently declared and have so far taken three classes, all of which have been pretty different from one another. In one we read mostly novels and linked them to philosophical texts about society and political identity; in another, we learned rhetoric terms and applied them to novels; in the one I’m taking now, we’re reading short stories and philosophy about how humans reason. I think.</p>

<p>I chose Rhetoric in part because I hadn’t taken any English classes – after so many lower-divison classes, I didn’t want to do the 45 series. Plus upper-division Rhetoric classes average 20-30, whereas many English upper-div classes are still big lectures. I also enjoy how Rhetoric instructors make an effort to link the ideas we’re discussing in class to real life, and absorbing how these great speakers/writers word things.</p>

<p>This got kind of ranty, but hopefully it’ll be helpful to someone scouring for info on the Rhetoric major. But again, I just recently declared, these are my impressions of Rhetoric vs. English.</p>

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<p>birdhouse is right in that Rhetoric will be a lot more interdisciplinary compared to English. And it’s true, if you like smaller, more intimate, heavily discussion-based classes, you’ll enjoy the experience of being in a Rhetoric class.</p>

<p>To elaborate on this topic of Rhetoric, I guess I’ll just start with its formal definition. Rhetoric is (and you can easily look this up) the art of persuasion. It’s everywhere. It’s politics. It’s writing. It’s in your everyday speech. It’s philosophy, English, linguistics, you name it. Why? Because Rhetoric is fundamentally utilized in any form of communication, analyzing its effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) in persuading any audience in any circumstance. </p>

<p>KeelyMK, you mentioned that for the most part, you understand Rhetoric to be about writing argumentative essays and working through logic/reasoning. It’s true. But the very focus of learning to write argumentatively and logically is, I believe and from my experience in taking the courses at Berkeley, more on the lines of the early Rhetoric courses you will presumably be taking if you decide to try the major out. Like birdhouse has experienced, though, as you move up and take some of the more rigorous and more specific courses, most of your classes will deal with analyzing communication in many different forms (e.g. film, written narratives, music, speech), because Rhetoric encompasses a lot more than the writing itself or about written material (even though, most likely you will be utilizing tools in its written form). </p>

<p>Compared to English, Rhetoric will be a lot more focused on understanding the intent of the author and the context of the “audience.” You’ll be analyzing the ambiguity of codes and messages fundamentally inherent in the mechanics (structure) and context of language. So, as you can probably guess, there won’t be a lot of room for creative writing, because it is meant to be a focus on a learning that is largely persuasive and logical.</p>

<p>Of course, you’re not going to be in classes where the lectures/discussions are structured on “how” to write argumentative essays (but this may be the case in the R/C, Rhetoric 10, and 20). They will more often than not be entirely discussion-based and will seek to engage and emphasize your ability to think logically and argue effectively on matters of effective communication. As you move up from lower divs to upper divs, the courses do tend to be more interdisciplinary because the direction of the course is fluid and easily motivated by the discussions dealt with by the dynamics of the students in the classroom.</p>

<p>I hope this helps! Also, if you’re thinking of trying out some courses, I would seriously recommend trying to take an upper div one, or at the very least, Rhetoric 10 or 20! :)</p>

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<p>Thanks for your replies guys. Rhetoric sounds fun and challenging; I’ll definitely check it out.</p>