Oddball International Student Needs Advice

Applying to College
1

All right, I’m a 15-year old student from Malaysia; I found CC through a friend of mine who goes by the alias Simfish (although I’m also one of Eric_Sia’s brother’s best friends). I’m determined to study overseas (because a Malaysian degree is worth practically nothing; should the country collapse, it’s worthless. On the other hand, an Ivy League degree is worth something even if the US collapses into anarchy.)

Now, my problem is, I do not fit in at school. Socially I stand out because of my willingness to try anything strange, but academically and in extra-curricular terms, I do not fit in at all. This is because, although I attend school, all my studying involves subjects not taught in the syllabus, and about half of my extra-curriculars do not involve the school at all.

Now, this would look good on paper because of the initiative, but I’m in hot soup over actually proving I’m not some nitwit who can’t even score an A in a backwater country’s examinations. My main problems are:

  • I’m not too proficient in Malay, so my head hurts when I try to study;
  • The Malaysian syllabus requires you to memorise practically everything, and I’m not about to waste valuable time that could be spent on my extra-curriculars or my own studies;
  • I intend to apply before I complete my secondary education.

My circumstances are so unique, I fear this post will take a while to go through.

I’ll start with my self-study. Since I was about five or six and learned to read an adult level, I’ve had a great love for learning. I read my father’s secondary school history and geography books cover to cover. When I entered primary school, at first I focused on my “real” studies, but I soon realised they bored me. Not just because they were in Malay, but because although theoretically social studies was supposed to cover history and geography, it covered all the parts I had no desire to learn about.

My real forte is in world history and politics (I intend to major in either economics or political science), but none of this subjects are tested in Malaysian schools except for economics (which I can only take next year). The Malaysian syllabus focuses far too much on local history and geography and the natural sciences, which I simply do not care for. The fact that we are given thousands of incoherent facts to memorise just for the exams is just salt rubbed into my wound. Due to this, I rarely, if ever, score As for anything other than Mathematics and English.

Therefore, I’ve given up on school. The problem is, this may look bad on a college app, because although I’ve heard of homeschoolers getting into HYP and of course ordinary highschoolers getting into HYP, I’ve never heard of anybody in a unique situation like mine where the student attends an ordinary school but studies by himself a whole different set of subjects.

Secondary school in Malaysia is very inflexible in terms of courses; the only time you can actually decide what courses you take is in your last year. My school offers a very limited range of courses and extra-curriculars, which is why I generally avoid more than token participation in most of them.

I believe the best academic subjects and extra-curriculars are those the student has a passion for, but my chosen ones are unavailable at my secondary school; indeed, some like world history are practically unavailable in the whole of Malaysia (I’m in our equivalent of sophomore year, and our history textbooks have never touched on events outside of Malaysia, let alone Asia, unless directly related to Malaysian history).

Thus, I will have a lot of explaining to do when I apply for college. Added to this is the fact that I intend to apply next year (early decision to my first choice, and regular decision to all my other choices), which would be one year before I finish my secondary education. If accepted, I will drop out of secondary school in June '07 (the remaining four months or so of studies would simply be cram classes for examinations). I just can’t stand school any more; the syllabus here is far too rigid and memorisation-focused for my liking.

Anyway, here are my stats:
SAT I - Sitting for it this June; am regularly scoring 700+ for all subjects on practice tests.
SAT II - Probably sitting for this early or middle next year. Likely subjects of choice are Literature, World History and one of the Math tests.
GPA - Usually 3.3 or thereabouts, but this is because I don’t bother with school.
Courseload - Malaysian schools are extremely inflexible when it comes to courses, as I’ve said above.
Extra-curriculars -

  • Active Boy Scout (was assistant troop leader last year; forced to step down this year because of traditional term limits) and current Patrol Leader
  • Administrator at Wikipedia.org; have been a major contributor to more than a dozen featured articles (recognised as among the best Wikipedia has to offer)
  • Deputy President of the School Website Committee; I wrote practically all the site’s content
  • Have represented my school to a district-level math quiz
  • Webmaster of my own website/blog, focusing largely on Malaysian political issues in addition to some traditional blogging on the side
  • I like public speaking, but you can’t participate in competitions in Malaysia without school backing, and my school isn’t too supportive of public speaking
  • I love to write, but again, have little outlet beyond my website
  • I love board games, but the school’s board games club is a mess, and the supervising teacher plays favourites when it comes to dealing with the students who run the club
  • Would love to found a public speaking club in school, but again, doubtful of the reception. Finding an open-minded supervising teacher would be hard as well.

I’m pretty sure I’ve missed out a lot of stuff in this post, but that can be dealt with later. Right now my questions are:

  • What colleges would suit me best?
  • Do I have any chance at all to get into an Ivy League college?
  • Would the colleges I apply to mind if they get a lot of essays? (Because I need to explain my unique circumstances, and another way to stand out from the crowd is to showcase my writing skills)
  • I’m pretty sure I have more questions, but this will do for now.
2

<p>If you have not done well in the context of your school and the teachers can't write strong recs saying you are a top student, it would be unlikely that an ivy will accept you. There is a tremendous amount of competition for the few international slots, especially from other Asian Countries. Many of these kids have straight A's and 800s.</p>

<p>There are however, many other great schools. Take a look at the archieves to find schools that are known to be international friendly, especially if you'll need any financial aid. I know Grinnell is one.</p>

3

<p>I am in the top 10% of my year consistently. My teachers should have no problem with recs indicating I am a strong student, especially when it comes to English and Math (the only subjects which overlap between my self-study and the school syllabus).</p>

4

<p>Four things that international students have to do in their applications that US students don't are:
1) Explain how the curriculum and grading system in their home country corresponds to the way they are done in the US.
2) Explain why they want to study in the US and that they want to follow the US model of liberal arts educationl where you study a number of general requirements before specializing in your desired field of study.
3) Take the TOEFL (test of English as a foreign language)
4) All application material such as official transcripts and recommendations must be in English.</p>

<p>Also foreign students can not get financial aid from the college or US government.</p>

<p>US colleges seek foreign students in order to add diversity to their freshman classes.</p>

<p>You should understand that acceptance to the Ivy League colleges is extremely selective. For every applicant accepted, there are four or five applicants who are denied simply because there is not enough room. Also, the best students are not necessarily the ones who get in. The colleges all want to have a diverse freshman class that represents society as a whole. They don't just take the best students. They take the best students from different categories such as minority students, geographic area within the US, foreign students, and so on.</p>

<p>You should also understand there are thousands of excellent colleges in the US, and that if you plan to go to graduate school, then the prestige of your undergraduate school doesn't really matter. If you graduate from perhaps the University of Washington, then you may be able go to an Ivy League school for graduate school.</p>

5

<p>1) Explain how the curriculum and grading system in their home country corresponds to the way they are done in the US.</p>

<p>As far as I know, there's little in common between Malaysia's and the US education system. I've anticipated this issue, and indeed, I need to get around it if I'm to have any hope of getting into an above average college.</p>

<p>2) Explain why they want to study in the US and that they want to follow the US model of liberal arts educationl where you study a number of general requirements before specializing in your desired field of study.</p>

<p>That should be easy; because I'm seeking diversity and already have diverse interests which I wish to narrow down. In addition, I desire a more flexible education compared to rigid style of education in Malaysia. (This, of course, is very brief.)</p>

<p>3) Take the TOEFL (test of English as a foreign language)</p>

<p>Yup, know about that.</p>

<p>4) All application material such as official transcripts and recommendations must be in English.</p>

<p>Isn't that, um, kind of obvious?</p>

<p>About financial aid, if I can't get any from a college, that effectively rules out all my chances of ever attending college in the US. I'm not surprised I can't get financial aid from the government, but are you sure about the colleges as well?</p>

<p>I know quite well about the Ivy League's selectivity; that's why I want to go there, because I want to mingle with the best. Of course, then there's the diversity issue, which I'm counting on a bit to help me get into the Ivy League; I'm half Chinese and half Filipino.</p>

<p>Of course I know there are many other good colleges in the US; I just want to try my luck with the Ivy League because, well, the best is the best, isn't it? Even if I don't get in or only get waitlisted, it's still better than having to second guess myself for the rest of my life.</p>

<p>Based on my grades, SATs and extra-curriculars, I think have a remote chance of getting into an Ivy League college, but one of the main reasons I posted here was because I want to find out about other colleges with similar levels of education but not a similar level of selectivity/prestige, as schools to fall back on if I can't get into the Ivy League.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice. :D</p>

6

<p>Since you are going to need a lot of financial help, I would not concentrate on getting into the most prestigious US college, but rather getting into any US college that you can get money from. Speaking as someone in the US who is watching all of the top students from every high school in the country try to get into the top ten colleges, I can guarantee to you that where you actually go to college in the US is more a matter of prestige than actual quality of education.</p>

<p>I am typing the following from “The Unofficial Guide to College Admissions”. This is one of the dozens of college guides that are sold in the US. The material is from the chapter on Application Tips for International Students. My copy was published in 2000. It is rather long, so appreciate me doing this for you. You may be discouraged immediately after reading it, but I would contact the colleges that have a lot of students from Malaysia already enrolled and get help from the colleges.</p>

<hr>

<p>PAYING YOUR WAY</p>

<p>Attending college in the US can be very expensive. The costs of education here tend to be greater than in other countries. The cost of living can also be higher than what you’re used to. You must give a lot of thought to how you will pay for your education long before you apply. Many colleges and American Consulates require proof that you can pay for the entire period of study before you will be granted admission or a student visa. This helps prevent the all-too-common problem of international students completing on year of studies, running out of money, and having to return home.</p>

<p>If you need financial aid to study in the US, try first to obtain it in your own country. Your government, your parent’s employers, your employer, or a religious organization may agree to sponsor you. Another source of funding is a direct exchange program between a university in your country and an American school; these programs may provide a full or partial waiver of tuition and fees. Ask your local university if such programs are available.</p>

<p>Private foundations and international agencies may also offer scholarships, grants, and financial aid to international students. These include the United Nations, the Organization of American States (OAS), AMIDEAST, the International Maritime Organization, the International Telecommunications Union, the League of Red Cross Societies, the Soros Foundation, the World Health Organization, and the World Council of Churches. Competition for these awards is very competitive, and many awards are limited to graduate students. Often, these scholarships require that you apply from your home country, so if you wait until after you arrive in the US to apply; you’ll no longer be eligible.</p>

<p>If you want to seek financial assistance or scholarships from the school, you must submit the financial aid applications supplied by the school and documentation of your family’s financial resources, such as a bank statement, to help the school determine your financial need. The deadline for submitting these forms may be as early as eight to nine months before classes begin, so it’s important to start the process early.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, financial aid is usually very limited for international students, especially undergraduates, and it almost never covers all of your educational and living expenses. Schools are under a lot of pressure to allocate their limited financial aid funds to American students first. So, you must be prepared to pay part or all of the costs of attending college in the US.</p>

<p>If financial aid is important to you, make sure that the schools where you apply offer aid to international students. Each college has a financial aid office, which can give you this information and tell you exactly how to apply for aid (your admissions officer will tell you how to get in touch with the financial aid office).</p>

<p>The following colleges and universities give financial aid to the most international students:</p>

<p>Florida International University
Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College
California State University at Stanislaus
University of Nebraska at Lincoln
West Virginia University
University of Bridgeport
Drexel University
Arizona State University
University of Texas at Dallas
University of Southern Colorado
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Illinois Institute of Technology
Ohio Wesleyan University
D’Youville College
Clark University
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Barry University
Iowa State University
Suffolk University
University of South Florida
Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania
University of Pennsylvania
Michigan State University
University of Miami
Eckerd College
Luther College
Georgia Southern University
Florida Institute of Technology
Pace University
College of Wooster
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Mercer University
American University
Smith College
Texas Christian University
Lawrence University</p>

<p>Student grants and loans from the US government are not available to foreign students. Some US government agencies provide funding in the form of assistantships, fellowships, and award programs to students from specific countries. These funds are very limited, though; only two percent of all foreign students receive any funding from the US government. For more information, contact the American Consulate or US Information Agency in your country.</p>

<p>International students with an F-1 Student Visa are permitted to work part-time on campus to help pay for tuition, but the money earned most likely won’t completely cover your educational expenses, and you will still have to pay for living expenses. After you complete one year of study, you can apply for permission to work off campus. Off-campus employment requires approval by the US Immigration and Naturalization Service and by the university’s international student office, which isn’t easy to get unless you can demonstrate special circumstances. Even if you do get permission to work off campus, the pay of a part-time job won’t cover all of your expenses. And your spouse won’t be allowed to work at all. So, don’t expect to support yourself with a job while you study.</p>

<h2>Finally, some commercial banks provide private loans to international students. Getting a private load requires approval from your school’s financial aid office and proof of your creditworthiness. You also must have a co-borrower, who must be a citizen or permanent resident of the US. These private student loans are very expensive. Obtain one only as a last resort.</h2>

<p>In a table entitled “US Colleges and Universities With Large Numbers of International Students”, the following colleges are listed as having a lot of students from Malaysia. Some of these schools are very prestigious/selective.</p>

<p>Andrews University , Berrien Springs, Michigan
Beloit College, Bennington, Vermont
College of Wooster, Wooster, Ohio
Drexel University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
George Washington University, Washington D.C.
Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan
Mount Holyoke College, South Hadley, Massachusetts
Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale, Carbondale, Illinois
Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey
University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan
University of Oregon, Eugene, Oregon
University of Tulsa, Tulsa, Oklahoma
University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin</p>

<p>Look at the following websites:
<a href="http://www.aaiep.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.aaiep.org&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.edupass.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.edupass.org&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.eslcafe.com/help/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.eslcafe.com/help/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.iefa.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.iefa.org&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.intstudy.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.intstudy.com&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.studyusa.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.studyusa.com&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/admin/acskills/intl.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.dartmouth.edu/admin/acskills/intl.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.petersons.com/ac/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.petersons.com/ac/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.usjournal.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.usjournal.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

7

<p>Some of the ivies are need blind for foreigh students, meaning if accepted they will give you the money you need. Harvard is one and I'm sure you can find threads that list the others.</p>

<p>Note that foreign students who need aid generally have to apply to schools where their stats put the at the very top.</p>

<p>Also, at most US colleges, especially the ivy league and other top schools, Asians are over represented minorities. Many will tell you it's harder for Asian then whites at top schools as there are so many highly qualifies Asian candidates in this country and internationally. For money look at schools with few Asians that do seek them for diversity. Schools under 10% Asian.</p>

8

<p>My thanks to zagat for bringing this to my attention. Apparently there was a move to go need-blind for international students for some schools as of 2001-2002. This was after my reference was published. From what I briefly saw... Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT now have need-blind financial aid for international students. In my opinion, UPenn and Stanford have made statements indicating that they think it is a bad idea. I think you need to check each school individually. Try doing a google with </p>

<p>+"need-blind" +"international students"</p>

<p>I suspect that some of the top schools with big endowments are moving in this direction, but other second-tier schools are not. This is only my own opinion.</p>

9

<p>Thanks, zagat, and especially dufus. Those posts were really helpful in giving a general idea of what colleges I should look into. Putting aside the question of safeties for now, would I have a chance at getting into Dartmouth? Princeton is my first choice, but seeing how competitive things are, it seems Dartmouth or Cornell would be better intermediate choices.</p>

<p>I've been really focused on Princeton and Dartmouth in most of my research into college admissions; as far as I know, both provide financial aid to international students, although Princeton's seems to better as they have phased out loans from their financial aid program.</p>

<p>That said, thanks again for the great advice.</p>