<p>Yo, I’m a little confused on the essays. I’ve done the commonapp essay (“Discuss an accomplishment or event…”) and the I intend to do Harvard’s optional one of listing my read books in the last 12 months. So what’s this talk about the EC essay…? Sorry, I know this sounds stupid. It’s all real different in other countries</p>
<p>@LucasKoacs, EC essay is a short one, 150 words. You can find it in the application - at least if you do commonapp it’s there. </p>
<p>@PcollegegirlP, OK thanks. That means if I submit it right before the deadline, I’d have no time to check if everything is there. I better hurry. </p>
<p>On that idea about internationals being allowed more leeway with SAT scores:</p>
<p>Really? You guys really think this is true? </p>
<p>It makes sense for some universities, but Harvard (and other similarly selective schools) would be receiving applications from internationals with THE BEST scores-- kids from China or India with 2400s, 800s and 36s. </p>
<p><em>(No Asian stereotypes-- just listing countries with a known culture of prioritizing academic and testing perfection)</em></p>
<p>I used to think that internationals would get more leeway, but now I’m not so sure. Perhaps Harvard sets different expectations for different nations…?</p>
<p>I heard that counselors and teachers have a different deadline than students do to submit their forms. Is this true?</p>
<p>
No, but they do get a few days grace period.</p>
<p>I’m kind of skeptical of the impression that in order to get into Harvard or the other Ivies you need to get perfect or intimidating scores. If you’re academic to the point where the only thing that sets you apart from others is your ability to play the exam and tick boxes, go to Cambridge! I thought Harvard was more wholistic. Having seen the stats of people getting in, now everyone has a 2400 or 36 or straight 800s or whatever. I wouldn’t want to go somewhere where you’d have to pressure yourself into pencilling in the right mark, especially when you’re essentially teaching yourself and it’s not even taught in your country</p>
<p>So a student with 4.0 gpa and a lot of extracurriculars and amazing recommendations, but has a low sat score, around 1800 let’s say, has a possibility of getting in?
@nomatterwhat , I’m not sure about that but yes u should hurry up since the deadline is in less than a month!</p>
<p>I’m not sure where anyone got the idea that you have to have perfect grades and test scores to get into Harvard or the Ivies. Perfect helps, but plenty of students get in with less than perfection in those two areas.</p>
<p>Harvard sets no lower limits on grades and test scores (at least not officially). They say they consider every application.</p>
<p>But don’t kid yourself. Harvard makes no minimum score or GPA line in the sand, but you can look at the averages and roughly figure out the odds for yourself. The typical SAT for Harvard admits is around 2240. The typical high school GPA is something like 3.94. Very, very few folks with SATs of 1800 get into Harvard. Those that do often have extraordinary stories, have overcome great barriers and obstacles. If you’re sitting there with an SAT of 1800, even with a 4.0, you need to ask yourself, am I someone who has overcome extraordinarily difficult life circumstances to achieve what I’ve done? Or have I accomplished something truly astonishing? I know someone who while in high school conducted medical research, as the primary researcher, at one of the top research hospitals/universities in the world that was published in a peer-reviewed journal that was a ground-breaking advance in his field. He’d have a shot even if he had an 1800.</p>
<p>Those sorts of folks are the exceptions. The norm is very high grades, very high test scores, and then, these are just prerequisites for most folks.</p>
<p>That’s definitely true. I find that people often fall into the gap where, if someone got in with an 1800, they think they could too, even without outstanding circumstances. As you said, grades help… but thank god I’m applying somewhere where grades aren’t the only thing that’s considered (unlike Oxbridge)</p>
<p>Actually, one’s high school grades are the single most important item at which Harvard admissions looks when evaluating applicants. A 4.0 with an 1800, as unlikely as admission would be for such a student, is more likely than a 2400 and 2.8.</p>
<p>I believe a combination of everything is kept in mind when Harvard makes decisions!
They don’t look at one thing but everything and they also look at the circumstances the individual lives in, hardships, etc.</p>
<p>@PcollegegirlP,</p>
<p>That’s true. That’s why it’s called holistic admissions.</p>
<p>However, high GPA/mediocre test scores are more likely to win admissions (although not very likely) than mediocre GPA/high test scores (who are even less likely to win admissions). The admissions folks view test scores as single-day events. Grades, on the other hand, come from persistence over time. </p>
<p>The high GPA/low score student is perceived as hardworking, maybe playing a bit above his weight class, so to speak, giving everything he’s got, able to use more modest innate abilities more effectively and more completely than most. He may even evoke a certain amount of admiration. As well, the low test scores can be attributed to: bad hair day; external circumstances impinging on events [e.g., the student’s dog died the day before]. Or maybe the student is bright but has a lot of testing anxiety that interferes with performance.</p>
<p>The low GPA/high score student may be seen as lazy, or otherwise underperforming to his ability. Such a student may be perceived as not taking his schoolwork altogether seriously, of shirking. Some may attribute his performance to bad attitude and disdain of academics. Harvard doesn’t usually want folks who disdain academics.</p>
<p>That’s a great explanation you have given @notjoe !
I agree with you!
Well, what do you think of a high gpa, and a really high TOEFL tests score(although they r not a requirement) , and a not so high SAT score?
Btw I just gave my SAT today… Not sure how I performed! :/</p>
<p>People need to understand that the Harvard REA pool is one of the most skewed collections on the planet. Who is applying? Are you the top 10-15% of this collection? That’s the real issue — I’d guess that practically everyone (except the delusional kids) who are applying are top scholars – but you’re talking about Harvard REA admission – nothing can be seen as typical as this is one of the most atypical groups extant.</p>
<p>@PcollegegirlP,</p>
<p>Assuming this is for Harvard, generally speaking, if your overall SAT is a little on the weak side, that will mean one thing, if it’s your CR or your W score about which you’re concerned, that will mean something else.</p>
<p>Since you’re asking about the TOEFL, too, I’m assuming that perhaps English isn’t your first language.</p>
<p>Is that the case, here? Or is there some other issue about which you’re actually asking?</p>
<p>Yes @notjoe , English is not my first language but I grew up in a English speaking society …nevertheless, English isn’t my first language!
I almost got full marks in TOEFL… I think they will take into account the fact I scored highly in my Toefl…what do u think?</p>
<p>@PcollegegirlP,</p>
<p>Harvard doesn’t require the TOEFL of non-native English speakers, but I’m fairly sure they will take it into account if it’s provided. However, I don’t think that Harvard has much room for slack in English-language skills for non-native speakers. I’m sure they take it into account. But not much.</p>
<p>The problem is that it’s tough to succeed at Harvard if you don’t have a superlative command and mastery of English, especially written English. Harvard is academically demanding, and my sense is that no one’s going to give much leeway in class for non-native speakers.</p>
<p>I’ve met a small number of international students from Harvard, and even had the pleasure of the company of one of my son’s international friends over one of his Thanksgiving breaks. He spoke with a slight accent, but his English was impeccable. Far better than most native English speakers. His range of vocabulary, command of grammar and syntax, ability to express complex and subtle thoughts and concepts in English was impressive. My own limited experience is that he’s not unusual for international students.</p>
<p>I guess the question comes down to, how good is good enough? I suspect that the answer is a little different for every applicant. Remember, even though it may be “good enough” in the abstract, in the end, they’re only going to pick a couple of thousand students to come in August 2015. Even if 5,000 would have qualified. Or 10,000. I wish you the very best in your quest for admission, but I hope that you’re applying to a range of schools, including a few other reaches, as well as some where you should gain entry fairly readily.</p>
<p>Here is a quote from Harvard’s website:</p>
<p>"English language proficiency</p>
<p>“A strong knowledge of English is essential for successful study at Harvard, including the ability to understand and express thoughts quickly and clearly. Although you are not required to take the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) or other proficiency exams, you may submit your scores if you have done so.”</p>
<p><a href=“International Applicants | Harvard”>https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-process/international-applicants</a></p>
<p>@2015gradtexas Can you give me more information about your extracurriculars?</p>