@What???!!, yes, SLU, UT-Southwestern, and VCU immediately come to mind.
Thanks to @Roentgen @texaspg and @dblazer for their informative posts on med schools/ match results/ residency programs etc. Glad to be back in the loop as I had to go through messages worth about 17-18 pages on this thread, after travel put me out of cyber space for a while. As I was trying to catch up, I realized that the thread is exploding with posts about medical schools, residency programs and USMLE score averages and things far and beyond the next 4-8 years.
I think it is great that many students and parents are so far sighted while making the choice of BS/MD programs. But, being too far sighted may not be the best, especially while making a choice for a 17 or 18 year old. Being one, and around more of those precocious students graduating from med school at 20 years (yes, it is possible in many countries) and now raising two students going through the combined med program makes me realize that quicker does NOT always mean better. This may sound ironic because I have one student in the accelerated NU-HPME. To that end, I must say it was the guaranteed safety net in NU-HPME that made the choice so much easier.
Bottom line, if I were you- students and parents, I would make a decision looking at things much more in close proximity than residency options/ match results or USMLE score averages. I have already sent a list (longer than this) to some of you who have PMed me for specific advice. For the rest of you, I would prioritize based on:
- Importance of aid and scholarships (Mr. Money can be a major deciding factor for most)
- Number of years in the program (which will also play a role in the cost)
- Comfort level of taking the MCAT (especially for those stellar students who arenāt the best standardized test takers)
- Maintaining the required GPA (which shouldnāt be an issue for most)
- The school environment and availability of other opportunities like research, music, humanitarian organizations, study abroad etc
- Other things- geographical location, weather, and access to home etc
- Importance of med school rating (although I am NOT a big proponent of this)
Obviously, it is up to your own discretion. But, I thought of adding my few cents here as we head close to the commitment deadline. Good luck to those still in the decision making process!
Students, remember the profession you have chosen as a physician is not just a job, but āa way of lifeā. Make sure you do the best to enjoy the journey. Here is something I always tell my kids āThe end-point may be bad, good, or great. But, if you enjoy the journey getting to the end-point: you will have succeeded, regardlessā.
@narkor DITTO!!!
I agree with the gist of what youāre saying, however, I do think students need to evaluate the med school somewhat before jumping in. Part of that includes looking at match lists and noticing trends. What people donāt realize is that you are effectively committing to the undergraduate institution AND the medical school at a young age, for all intents and purposes, even if you are able to apply out. Now there are some programs in which doing their assured Bachelor/MD program is an absolute no-brainer ā Penn State/Jefferson, Brown, Northwestern, UPitt, Baylor, Miami Miller, etc. in terms of educational quality (although not necessarily finances). The compromise you make in these type of programs is very small. However, at so many other BS/MD programs, a student should think twice about if they truly want to go to that specific undergrad/med school, as they may be compromising way too early in the process, whether in terms of their education, their ability to match into certain specialties, or finances.
This is where I think those going thru the program or have graduated and who come back to CC can be invaluable in terms of their insight and perspective for future students. I say that as someone who, in retrospect, felt that I compromised way too early, as well as many of my classmates because we were way too scared or paranoid about the traditional process. Perfect example of a dubious Bachelor/MD program? California Northstate. Just reading some of the media articles on that school rings huge alarms bells for me. And yet they will get tons of applications from scared kids even though they are a new med school with no residency match track record in anything whatsoever, and is a for-profit med school (SMH).
So many students I see on CC just want to get into a Bachelor/MD program, ANY Bachelor/MD program, no matter how poor the quality. Trust me, I understand the fears, paranoia, etc. that high achieving high school seniors have at this age when it comes to applying for med school, or even some external pressure to enter these type of programs. Theyāre very smart and high achieving kids, but are very risk averse. However, thatās not a good reason to enter these type of programs, as the risks just get greater as you go thru with even more financial investment.
Especially in this current match environment in which we have more U.S. senior medical school graduates than residency positions available (without which an MD is useless in terms of practicing clinically vs. other alternatives that donāt require residency), I think this side of the equation needs to be looked at more and more by students. I think weāre in much different times now than when this specific forum first started back in 2004.
It is appalling that CA North State started BS/MD, within one year of starting med school. I am a northern CA rsident, and I think it is pure greed.
@srk2017, and currently they donāt even have full accreditation: http://lcme.org/directory/accredited-u-s-programs/, just preliminary accreditation, which they just got in 2015. Their GPA and test criteria are ridiculously low: http://healthsciences.cnsu.edu/programs-offered/bs-md-combined-program/admissions ā 3.75+ GPA/1360 SAT/32 ACT for the 6 year program and 3.60+ GPA/1290 SAT/29 ACT for the 7 year program. Iām always wary of educational institutions that are for-profit, in which the primary goal is to maximize revenue for shareholders over student education, like it is for Carribean medical schools.
I thought I had seen it all with BS/MD programs in which an undergraduate institution pairs up with a Caribbean med school: http://www.sgu.edu/future-students/school-of-medicine-academic-partnerships.html#Jersey
Same, I am also from Northern CA. Though I spent good amount of time surfing internet and this forum starting from last July, I came to know about this CA North State college only when some one posted about it in this thread in Oct or so. Spent only 30 minutes looking at their web site and what ever google thrown for this search and decided it is not worth spending even time to know about this college. I don;t believe in buying college degree, students should earn the college degree, especially profession like medicine. Would like to stay far away from for-profit educational institution.
@GoldenRock, their website is here: http://medicine.cnsu.edu/ (so much to shake my head to, itās not even funny, based on their website alone). Not to mention on SDN: http://ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā /threads/california-northstate-gains-accreditation.1142846/page-8, which went on for 24 pages, so by SDN standards thatās quite long, if you look at the average thread - with posts by veteran attendings and Pre-Allo advisors, residents, and medical students.
All the more reason that people REALLY need to do their HW on these programs, esp. one that starts the moment a med school is created.
I went through the SDN thread, and noticed something said about an FAU faculty member. What do you guys think of FAUās med program (I know their med school is relatively new as well)?
My son has officially accepted EMSAP at UAB! It was so exciting to receive acceptance letters from Ivies, but at the end of the day, he loved UAB and felt this program was one he couldnāt pass up! He is so excited! Go, Blazers!
@1Tcollegemom
Congrats!
@allefficace, as you guessed, FAU is a relatively new med school, in Florida, also in Miami just like Miami-Miller. I honestly donāt know which hospitals they rotate at during their 3rd year, certainly not at Jackson-Memorial which is UMiamiās teaching hospital. Iām having some difficulty finding their match lists. This year is the 2nd class to go thru the match.
@1Tcollegemom Congrats to proud parents and your son. Would you please provide your sonās stats and reflections in the 2016 results thread so that it can help future students / parents. Thanks.
@ITcollegemom, wow, congratulations!! Were you in-state or out-of-state (I donāt know if UAB EMSAP takes any out-of-staters in their program)?
Thanks, everyone! Iām so happy for him! @Roentgen we are out-of-state! There were about 7 or 8 of those accepted that were out of state!
How many seats are available?
@Roentgen @allefficace
In terms of FAU I know they rotate at various sites. Some very impressive such as Cleveland Clinic Florida. They have an innovative PBL curriculum. Research opportunities are extraordinary considering they have partnerships with Scripps and Max Planck. They seem to pursuing an aggressive expansion policy in research development within the next few years. From what I have found it also seems they will train around 400 residents within the next 5-8 years. In terms of match here are a few highlights: 4 Anesthesiology (2@ Mass Gen.), 1 Dermatology, 1 Neurosurgery, 3 ENT, 4 Ophthalmology, 1 radiation oncology, 3 diagnostic radiology, 1 vascular surgery, and many othersā¦ I consider their match to be pretty impressive considering it is only their second match and they only had 64 graduates. They also have had a %100 match two years in a row. Also FAU is not in Miami actually.
How is GWās program? I did not apply there but I have a younger sibling who is considering it. Is it ranked among the top for med programs?
Sorry, yes, @1CRYZX, you are correct, itās in Boca Raton, not Miami: http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/news/florida-losing-new-doctors-as-hospital-residency-p/nMDcx/. I meant that FAU used to be a satellite site for Miami Miller at one time, I believe. Obviously theyāve now officially separated from Miami Miller in terms of their med school. It would be nice if they actually listed complete match lists the way UCF has done every year. The Cleveland Clinic-Florida site is quite different than the esteemed Cleveland Clinic site in Cleveland, Ohio, the same way the Mayo-Arizona, Mayo-Jax sites are different than the esteemed Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. And trust me, at the fellowship application level, programs definitely know the difference. I have no doubt they will be able to expand greatly due to the economic power of Florida in general.