@misophoniax, I’ve heard the ACT is more conducive to what you learn in school (vs. the SAT), so people who’ve had trouble with the SAT, do tend to usually have better luck with the ACT. I don’t know any Bachelor/MD program that doesn’t take either one. It’s different companies, so different score reports. Check to see whether any of the programs you’re interested in may require specific SAT subject exams as well.
Thank you guys so much! I feel a little bit better about my situation since I may have better luck with the ACT. Fingers crossed!!
I believe only school that doesn’t take ACT is SUNY @ Stony Brook. My S took ACT only and not planning to take SAT again due to lack of time. Also, new SAT and ACT pretty similar unlike before. My S took PSAT one month after ACT and did reasonably well.
@srk2017 I sent Stony Brook my ACT and they accepted me into their program. So they must take it because I applied this past admission cycle. I can see why most would think that as on their website it doesn’t mention the ACT at all.
@Undecided3494 - Thanks for the info. So you never took or submitted SAT score to Stony Brook?
@srk2017, the website is a little confusing: https://uaa.stonybrook.edu/honors-college/special-programs
“Minimum academic criteria for consideration for the Scholars for Medicine program include a score of 1350 on the critical reading and math components, and a minimum score of 600 on the writing component of the SAT.”
but then it says
“Submit all supporting documentation (including high school/college transcripts, SAT/ACT/AP scores, two teacher evaluations, and counselor evaluation) by February 1st.”
So maybe there is some type of conversion done for ACT scores, like this: https://research.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/publications/2012/7/researchnote-2009-40-act-sat-concordance-tables.pdf
@Roentgen - Please check the following link
http://mobile.cc.stonybrook.edu/sb/undergraduate-admissions/academics/honors/
which says
“Minimum Requirements for Consideration: GPA of 95 (or 3.8), and a combined SAT Math and Critical Reading score of 1350 or higher (the ACT will not be used as a substitute for the SAT).”
Unfortunately some programs/sites are very poor and needs students need to be cautious and take extra attention.
- Stony brook is a classic example. My notes have need to send SAT only because of the above link shared by @srk2017 . But thanks goodness they accepted @Undecided3494.
- TCNJ: They prefer SAT but accept ACT. But if you send both they will use ONLY SAT. So if your score is good in ACT but not in SAT, DON’T send SAT score (we learned in the hard way).
- BU: If you apply to BS/MD and rejected pre-interview, DON’T forget to CALL them and inform you would like to be considered for the regular BS program, if you are particular about BU. Because by default (it is stated in the web site, but we tend to forget during the thick of the moment in Jan/Feb, your app is considered ONLY for the program you apply.
@misophoniax Your SAT score is only a portion of the things BS/MD programs look for! Just make sure you have extracurriculars that show your passion for medicine and you should be fine. Take all the tests and score as high as possible, but don’t be too hung up about it.
@jscoffee Thank you for the advice! I needed to hear this.
Roentgen, Can you please share your knowledge on how many years of total medical school including a residency in an accelerated program? Our family tree is full of engineering nuts? no body related to any medical field.
Rather break your question in to 2 parts.
- How many years to complete the medical education (UG and MD)
- How many years of residency.
First part is easy. Either 2+4, 6 years accelerated programs (which are only 3, UMKC, Howard and possibly NEOMED ) or 3+4, 7 years accelerated programs (from Northwestern to Houston, many programs). Non accelerated program is 4+4.
Second part is different, number of years of residency. That depends on what specialty, sub-specialty, the minimum 3 years for FP/IM to many years. I will leave it to the expert Doc @Roentgen to explain. This has no bearing, whether you do 6 or 7 or 8 years of medical education.
Thanks GoldenRock. I start to understand things now. Starting out with huge college loans( BSMD, acceletared or regular 8 or 7 years )how are these doctors able to manage the debts coming out of college and manage their residency. As a parent I would like to know the average debt range and till what level we would have to support the kids. As far as Engineers after Bachelors they are able to fetch a decent job and start to take care. Doc @ Roentgen can you please share your thoughts. We have absolutely no idea what we are getting into. Our son has so much passion to pursue medicine and not into Engineering field.
Hey @chesscrazy (use the @ next to the username, like Twitter, to tag someone)
So in general, accelerated combined Bachelor/MD programs only “accelerate” the undergraduate portion. The actual “medical school” part always remains four years. So in 6 year programs, the undergraduate portion is usually 2 years in length (because of such a short time span to acquire undergradute course credit hours, you usually do not get your summers off here, although it can depend on how much credit you have). In 7 year programs, the undergraduate portion is 3 years in length. And in 8 year combined programs, the undergraduate portion stays the full 4 years (with no allowance to accelerate and enter the med school earlier, usually), just like if you were a regular undergraduate.
Residency training is actually separate from medical school. It’s not a part of it, although you do need your medical degree in order to enter a residency. It usually officially starts on July 1st, after you’ve graduated at the end of May. You apply for residency during the fall of your 4th year (senior year) of medical school, interview, and go through what is called a “match” process. This residency can be anywhere from 3 to 7 years in length depending on the specialty: https://residency.wustl.edu/Residencies/Pages/LengthofResidencies.aspx. You then take a board exam at the end of it to become board certified.
After residency training, you can then elect to do a fellowship in a subspecialty (your specialty is the one you did residency in). That can vary. Some fellowships are only 1 year, others are 3 years. You can do more than one fellowship, but this varies depending on the field you’re in: http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/Pages/specialties-subspecialties.aspx
@roentgen - there are always exceptions to the rule or OTOH there are some medical schools introducing shorter terms!
Texas Tech has a combined program but has refused to allow any of their students to move on to medical school when they graduate early. I know at least 2 siblings who were forced to get an MBA or something else in their 4th year of undergrad despite finishing early.
On the flipside, they have introduced 3 year family medicine program.
@chesscrazy, the amount of debt you come in from college can vary depending on the undergrad you go to, how much aid you’re given (and whether most of that aid is loans vs. grants/scholarships, etc.). According to current stats on debt, you can see that here: https://www.aamc.org/download/447254/data/debtfactcard.pdf (I believe that debt is total debt, including college)
As a resident, you likely will be living hand-to-mouth so to speak, so any desire to pay off your loans will probably be tempered by more immediate expenses – rent, food, etc. As a resident, you can forbear/defer paying until you are done with residency, after which you do have to start making payments.
Keep in mind, there are also people who do Engineering degrees in undergrad and then go to medical school. It’s not at all uncommon for people to do still marketable degrees in areas like Business, Engineering, Computer IT, etc. as undergrads and still go to med school right after, since med school only requires fulfilling certain prereqs. Premed is not a major.
@texaspg, yeah, I was only referring to combined Bachelor/MD programs and I specifically didn’t want to mention that, as I didn’t want to possibly confuse the issue, since then we’re throwing specialty considerations into the mix. Only some schools have the option of finishing medical school in 3 years before entering some type of primary care residency which is usually linked to the school directly in some way. The one at Texas Tech (which has been in place since 2010), specifically, according to their website, limits you to doing the residency at one of their programs as it’s linked to it. UC-Davis also has something similar linked with Kaiser: http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mdprogram/tailored-clinical-pathways/index.html
Yup, it’s directly stated on Texas Tech’s UMSI website page: http://www.ttuhsc.edu/som/admissions/umsi.aspx, where they say that it’s not meant to be an accelerated program. Although it does say, “Early matriculation may be considered after students have completed at least three years of undergraduate study at Texas Tech University. These candidates must interview with select faculty from the School of Medicine. Applicants must demonstrate accelerated levels of appropriate medical readiness.” I imagine it doesn’t happen very often though. I know at others it’s not negotiable at all – you finish your undergrad early, then you can do study abroad, double major, or take more elective classes, etc. but you can’t enroll earlier into med school.
I don’t think this actually happens. The students who did something else to wait until the med school starts do absolutely nothing related to becoming medical school ready other than age an year.
I wonder if they are losing cross admits to UTSA and UTD which have defined 3 year undergrads for combined programs.
@texaspg, yeah, that disclaimer of possible early matriculation is so vague, I wouldn’t even count on it at all, as they don’t define what “demonstrate accelerated levels of appropriate medical readiness” means, unless they are referring to GPA. It seems like now nearly every Texas allopathic medical school now has some type of combined Bachelor/MD program associated with it: http://www.ivyplanners.com/documents/BS-MD-IvyPlanners.pdf (this list has specifically highlighted the ones in Texas in green)
The limiting factor is probably the size of the Bachelor/MD cohort taken in - both the number they take in initially to enter and the # that actually reaches the MS-1 matriculation stage.
Getting full scholarship for undergrad and going to in-state medical school is the way to minimize the total debit. I believe very few medical schools have merit scholarships.