Dear @roentgen, @GoldenRock, @texaspg ,
Thanks for your inputs. These days no advantage for saving a year, most program do require MCATs, minimum GPA requirement to be in the program. Are they really kicked out if they slightly deviate from the min GPA? Then what is the real advantage in these combined programs?
Is the traditional route through some decent research universities like Johns Hopkins or Upenn might be a better choice, if he gets in?
Sorry for asking multiple questions the same day. We are in the process of cutting down the list of colleges based on all of your inputs. With the additional essays to write for each of them for the kids ,absolutely it will reduce our stress levels as parents after finding out we wonât be qualified for any need based assistance FAFSA and how much each of them is going to cost. We will be OOS for both NY and NJ state colleges.
@chesscrazy - I donât t count Johns Hopkins or Upenn as decent research schools 
As a parent I feel these combined programs will mainly reduce stress (may be more for parents) about medical school application process. Even with with 3.75 GPA and 90 percentile MCA some kids are not getting medical school admissions and forcing them to spend one or two year improving their research and/or volunteering experiences and this may discourage some.
I understand a lot of weight is put into experience or exposure in the medical field, e.g. shadowing, volunteering, and research. If one aspect is missing, do you think that will greatly affect my chances?
I have volunteered at a local hospital for three years, accumulating about 150 hours.
Iâve also been shadowing my dad throughout this summerâfor about 100 hours. I do wonder if it looks like I was handed the opportunity to shadow someone though, as he is my dad. I do hope to ask my family physician next time I see him.
I lack research or any major awards/publications. I had the opportunity to work with someone in another city about an hour away this summer, but I was not able to go. I canât drive and my parents could not find time to drive me with everyoneâs hectic schedule. I also have dance team practice three times a week and that also made scheduling difficult.
@chesscrazy - The advantages are in the eye of the beholder! If you are a California resident, most likely your kid will end up OOS for medical school but if you are a Texas resident, it is the opposite. This is simply based on supply and demand and based on your residency, the answer might vary.
I usually advise parents needing financial aid to consider cost of the whole program as opposed to making the decision based solely on what is given during undergrad.
Is it necessary to be published for research? Obviously being published will help you but on average do applicants who do research get published?
Hey, upcoming senior here! I was wondering if my stats could be considered competitive enough for a BS/MD program. Also, what would be target schools my stats would be acceptable for? I really love Brownâs PLME, but gauging from past threads, Iâm not sure how competitive I would be.
Total GPA: 4.3571 (W) 3.9762 (UW)
Class Rank: 2/618
SAT: 2380 (took only one time)
SAT Subject Tests:
Math II: 800
Biology M: 800
planning to take Chem (required by NW and BU) but school does not offer AP Chem so not sure about my proficiency
APs:
World History: 4
Statistics: 5
Computer Science: 5
Calc AB-5
United States History: 5
Biology: 4 (I was so disappointed haha)
Language & Composition: 5
Psychology: 5
Senior Year: AP Literature, AP Microeconomics, AP Calc BC, AP Gov, AP Computer Science Principles, AP Physics C (school is only offering AP Physics 1 class but supposedly the teacher will teach it as a joint class)
LORs: AP Biology (I founded the Biology Olympiad club with her so I spend more time with her), AP Lang (we had to write a personal essay in the beginning of the year so I think he has a good understanding of my core values; he also called me a âtreasureâ in my yearbookâthatâs good right? :â) ), and counselor
State: CA
Gender: Female
Ethnicity: Asian
High School Activities and Leadership
Biology Olympiad (11, 12): Founder & President
Varsity Dance Team (9, 10, 11, 12): Historian, #2 and #3 at USA Nationals in different divisions
National Honor Society (11, 12): Vice President & President
Hands4Hope, community service: (9, 10, 11, 12): Treasurer, was in the club for 2 years, but remained in organization
Asian Culture Club (9, 10, 11, 12): Class Officers, Public Relations, Vice President
Chemistry Olympiad (11, 12): Vice President
Academic Decathlon (9, 10, 11, 12): Co-Captain, #3 and #2 team in regional competition
Math Steeplechase Team, selected by AMC performance (9, 10, 11, 12): #3 sophomore team, #2 junior team and #2 overall
Math Club (9, 10, 11, 12)
Experience:
Volunteering at local hospital: about 146 hours
Shadowing: cardiology (my dad actually), clinic for those without sufficient healthcare: about 100 hours
No research: I was offered an opportunity, but due to distance and no mode of transportation, as well as dance team practice over the whole summer, I was not able to take the opportunity.
Awards:
National Merit Semifinalist (PSAT was 1510/1520)
Educational Excellence Award (9, 10, 11)
Top AMC 10 Score at School (10)
AP Scholar (10)
Honorary Mention in Scholastic Art and Writing Awards for digital art piece (10)
Piano: Trophy in Music Teachersâ Association of California Fall Festival (10), Honors (highest 5+) in CM Music Theory (9, 10)
I think my main weaknesses are lack of experience in the medical field and lack of any major awards/publications/honors.
@ccuser00 You have great leadership and academics from what I can tell. As for experience in medical field, the only component I really think you are lacking is research like you mentioned. Besides that, I donât think itâs reasonable for these programs to expect much more exposure to the medical field at our age. I for example have not gone beyond those three categories. Not really sure how one could to be honest. Brownâs PLME is obviously competitive but definitely do not count yourself out. There definitely are more experienced and knowledgeable people on this thread who could give you better feedback. Iâm just giving you my take on it
@chesscrazy, I think most Bachelor/MD schools do require some level of undergraduate performance, which is usually contained within some type of cumulative GPA or science (BCPM) GPA. Itâs very rarely a free for all in terms of not caring at all. I canât remember, but there arenât too many that have changed from no MCAT to MCAT. The only one that comes to mind that changed is Rice-Baylor (which is unfortunate). The required score can range from achieving a very low score (like a 24 on the scale when it was 45), to meeting the average matriculant score for that school. There are some schools like Wash Uâs Bachelor/MD program that require a 36 on the old 45 scale, but those who make it into that program are so very high achieving on the spectrum in terms of matriculant test scores that achieving a 36 isnât an issue and theyâre probably easily able to apply out as well.
A lot of making the comparison is having the acceptances and THEN making the comparison as thatâs when you get the finances in hand as well, in terms of how much aid youâll get. Iâm assuming youâve investigated the Bachelor/MD programs available in your home state.
Yes, @chesscrazy, to add to what @texaspg is saying, the state you live in can determine a lot whether you will likely get into your own state school(s) or most likely will have to attend an out-of-state school. Not at all uncommon, especially for residents of California to seek out combined programs like these, as CA does tend to recruit quite a bit from out-of-staters who want to live and go to school in CA in the traditional application process, and they bring in more tuition dollars since they would pay out-of-state tuition, so getting a shot as an in-state student is not as guaranteed.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstablea1.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/factstablea4.pdf
There were 1125-1150 students admitted to MD program throughout CA who are in state based on the first chart (take the number of matriculants in each school, multiply them with the instate percentage and add them all up).
The second chart says 2438 students got into MD program for the current year from California. So what that tells you is that California medical schools have very few seats to support the residents (even if you add all of them up it is still 1500 or 1600 including privates) and a large number of residents have to vie for OOS medical school admissions.
By the same token, Texas has close to 1600+ seats but residents have only gotten 1611 admissions across the country (last year). There were some new schools added last year and those schools are not reflected yet. Essentially Texas OOS admissions equal their own residents OOS admissions.
I believe these two are the extreme examples of instate vs out of state and how residency works out. Pay close attention to in vs out percentages for different schools and you can see how hard it gets for many public schools in many states for someone OOS to get in and why there are different perceptions based where one lives about how hard it might be to get into a medical school.
Hey guys. Can you chance me for all BS/MD programs in NJ and PA and NY? Iâm from NJ
GPA: 92 UW, 98 W
Class rank: 28/515
SAT: 2340(740 CR)
SAT Subject Tests:
790 Math 2
780 Bio M
780 Literature
APs:
Biology(4)
Calc AB(5)
Microeconomics(4)
Calc BC(5,5)
Language and composition(5)
US History(4)
Senior Year: AP Physics 2, AP Human Geography, Honors LAL, AP Statistics, Honors Computer Science, AP Macroeconomics, AP Psycology
LORs: Spanish teacher, history teacher, chemistry teacher, math teacher, reasearch professor, and hospital I worked at
State: NJ
Gender: Male
Ethinicity: Indian
Highschool Leadership and sports:
DECA: 9,10,11,12: Committee head of Fundrasing
Science National Honors Society: 9,10,11,12: Committee Head of Recruting and Founding Member
JV Soccer: 9,10: starting member of JV team both years but couldnât play the latter half of high school because of injuries during tryouts.
Medical Experiences:
Hosptial Volunteer: started summer after 9th grade and still continue. 4 hours per week in many different departments including ER
Internal Medicine Shadowing: shadowed a doctor for about 100 hours
1 week internship at pharemucetuical company
Shadowed cardiologist in other country and saw open heart surgery directly(1 week)
Research at local university: Shadowed post-doc, and helped with many different research techniques, no publication(2 months)
American Cancer Society: Committee Member for Relay for Life(2 years)
Outside of High school:
Violin for 9 years: performed in many public recitals, etc
Karate for 8 years
Volunteer at local STEM museum (1.5 years)
I am not looking for the really hard ones but rather those on drexel, NJMS affiliates level.
Does anyone know if we will need to verify volunteering hours for these programs? Iâm not trying to make up hours but I just want to know if I should request my supervisors for a record of my volunteering hours at the place.
@chocolatina1001 From what Iâve seen, there is no place to put any verification on the app. Iâm not entirely sure though.
Nobody asked to submit volunteer hours letter. In some places (for example where my D volunteered) there is a requirement of minimum 75 hours before they can provide the letter. Just to be on the same side she got the letter but no one asked. When she wrapped up her volunteering, she got one more final letter. It is good to get it and keep safely. Agree with you, honesty and integrity are THE foundations and we should not break the trust. GL.
@ccuser00 You have a very good chance. On the contrary to your statement, you indeed have relevant medical field expose (since you did volunteering and 100 hours of shadowing). It is not mandatory that every one must have a research and/or publication. May be if at all one or few programs care about it (like NW or Wash, RPI). Quality of what you have done and how you express is critical at this stage than check-listing every items every one has indicated in this forum.
@pokemon1 You also have a good chance. You have medical volunteer and shadow experience. It is no harm to try few top programs also if it is within your financial situation. Agree, you should apply to various feeders of NJMS and Robert Wood Johnson since you have the advantage of in state being in NJ. You can consider Albany feeders also.
@GoldenRock thanks a lot
I have a question that someone here might be able to answer. One of my friends told me that most low to mid tier donât like to take super top students because their is a higher chance of them saying no. Since most bs md programs only have a few slots they want there matriculation rate to be as close to 100% as possible so they can have the desired class size. Iâm not sure if this is true but does anyone know if it is?
@pokemon1 First, are you referring to the UG admission or the BS/MD program admission? Because answer may differ depending on which admission. Honestly, in either case, it is not going to be a straight answer or any one will have a crystal ball to predict the outcome.
Here is my assessment based on my D results (obviously with 1 sample, you can not conclude any thing).
Some programs (especially top tier) they appear to be little better managed and communicate tightly among the UG admission and BS/MD program office (note, invariably both are independent committed and decisions). But still when BS/MD program made a decision that she is not a candidate worthy to call for interview, but still because of her strong academics, their UG concluded she may get some low tier college BS/MD and since she has applied for BS/MD program, the chances are low for her to join their UG program and hence to maintain the magic yield, they rejected. Example, Northwester and Washington are 2 good examples. That is the only 2 colleges she got rejected for her UG. At least based on her friends circle who got in to those 2 colleges just for UG.
Where as schools (especially middle to low tiers), they donât have a tight communication and/or they are not that concerned about the yield. For example, 189 ranked U of Houston or 149 ranked Alabama, they give UG admission way ahead of the BD/MD program decision. Obviously they know, if a strong academic student, why would they join if given admission only to UG. But still they give and like to have a better chance of attracting some good students. But at the same time, for the BS/MD program, even for low or middle tiers, it is not that easy just because you have a good academic and test scores unless you have a good all round match for BS/MD program. Not sure, if any stats exists but chances are very high, the yield on BS/MD program is very high unlike UG yield %.
I donât know whether I answered your question, probably confused you more!
Itâs a good idea to keep a spreadsheet of all the ECs including volunteer hours and check a quick average per week number. There are few videos from Stanford admission committee mentioned that they look at average hrs per week to kind of do a quick verification. I recalled that number to be around 20-25 hrs per week total.
Overall, you are well qualified student for high tier programs like Northwestern HMPE. Apply widely covering high, medium, low tiers and some back up. Process is so random and competition varies from local school, state and region. Un-spoken rules suggest knowing where your own school students are applying to help you refine where to apply, unless you are top of your class. You may already know from counselor that historically, HPME may call few kids from IMSA for interview and one or two get in, GPPA has higher numbers.
The BS admissions at public schools are mostly independent of MD part of it. They are required to admit the student based on their credentials and not necessarily consider whether they will show up. The privates OTOH start playing yield protection as they move up being in top 40 or so (I am not sure if RPI rejects people if they donât get called for an interview). NW and WashU definitely fall under the yield protection category.