<p>“am only left wondering why so many students sign up for college (with loans!) they have such a low chance of completing.”</p>
<p>The income differential between “some college” and “no college” is greater than the differential between “some college” and “graduated”. Retention and completion are good things, but they aren’t the only possible metrics.</p>
<p>Nationally, retention and completion are closely tied to income. (And likely to having enough food.)</p>
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<p>If you mean “graduated with a bachelor’s degree” when you write “graduated”, not according to this: [Education</a> pays](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm]Education”>http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm)</p>
<p>Educational attainment / median weekly pay / unemployment rate
Bachelor’s degree / $1066 / 4.5%
Associates degree / $785 / 6.2%
Some college, no degree / $727 / 7.7%
High school diploma / $652 / 8.3%</p>
<p>When I first saw this, I thought that it was a bit too alarmist.</p>
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<p>A student can transfer to a 4 year school, once they obtain 24 credit (much easier if they have obtained a B average within those 24 credits. This can be done with in a year, but depending on the student’s background (AP credits, college now courses starting in 10th grade, they can make the transfer in less than a year.</p>
<p>Some students also become remedial free by retaking a regents exam in June/August or by passing the exam over the summer.</p>
<p>Some people go to community college as a way to getting from point a to point b. Just like the SUNY schools, CUNY schools also have articulation agreements and joint programs (Justice academy with John Jay, Engineering with City college, Nursing Joint AAS/BS with Hunter); </p>
<p>[CUNY</a> Justice Academy - Notable Programs - CUNY](<a href=“http://www.cuny.edu/academics/programs/notable/justice-academy.html]CUNY”>http://www.cuny.edu/academics/programs/notable/justice-academy.html)</p>
<p>[Dual</a> Degree Program - Office of Academic Affairs](<a href=“http://www.hostos.cuny.edu/oaa/ddp/fsPD.htm]Dual”>http://www.hostos.cuny.edu/oaa/ddp/fsPD.htm)<br>
[Faculty</a> Handbook - Programs of Study](<a href=“http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/governance/faculty/handbook/programs-of-study.html]Faculty”>Faculty Handbook - Programs of Study)</p>
<p>For example, if a student wanted to attend NYU and did not get in through HEOP, the student could start CC as a college discovery student or SEEK a 4 year CUNY student, improve their grades by putting some distance between them and high school, then transfer to a HEOP/EOP program at a 4 year school. </p>
<p>In the case of NYU, a student with a B average who completes CC will have a shot at the NYU CC transfer program (with $$) at Steinhardt, Wagner School of Social Work and the Paul McGhee school.</p>
<p>[Community</a> College Transfer Opportunity Program - NYU Steinhardt](<a href=“NYU CCTOP”>NYU CCTOP)</p>
<p>By saying 80% of recent high school graduates cannot read is like saying 80% of them didn’t pass the NYS regents for English. This is misleading.</p>
<p>[Financial</a> Benefits of a College Education Are Smaller Than You’d Think - DailyFinance](<a href=“http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/05/24/financial-benefits-of-a-college-education-are-smaller-than-youd/]Financial”>Stock Portfolio & Tracker - Yahoo Finance)</p>
<p>“Accounting and finance staff - education requirements vary, ranging from junior accounting clerks, who don’t need a college degree, to chief financial officers, who do.”</p>
<p>“Secretaries and personal assistants - post-secondary degree not required”</p>
<p>In an era when it’s easy to find these folks with a college degree that are looking hard for work, why would you hire the person without the college degree?</p>
<p>Yes, the degree may not be required but it gives you a leg up on those without one.</p>
<p>BTW, you do need a 4-year degree where I work to get a secretarial or administrative assistant position.</p>
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<p>Cooper Union is actually part of CUNY. My friend’s daughter attends. The tuition used to be gratis but there is now a charge. It’s a small amount - I’m not sure how much.</p>
<p>Someone on this thread talked about an NYC hs with a low graduation rate of 34%. Think that’s low? My son, who has an IEP, was told by the Committee on Special Education to attend Murry Bergtraum HS, where the graduation rate, as of 2011, was 13%. </p>
<p>I discovered this in the process of refusing the placement. I called the school’s administrative office and asked for the grad rate. When the secretary said 13%, I thought I must have heard wrong - did she say 30? No, she didn’t. It was 13.</p>
<p>There was so much else wrong with the school (a recent riot in the cafeteria because of a change in bathroom policy comes to mind) that we had no intention of sending our son there, but I don’t understand how a school with that kind of graduation rate can be kept open. Neither my son nor anyone else’s child should be made to go there.</p>
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<p>Cooper Union is not part of CUNY. It is a private institution which funds the full-tuition scholarships through an earmarked fund for that purpose. </p>
<p>As far as I know, they haven’t officially started charging tuition yet. However, students are charged certain non-tuition fees which are nominal compared to what they’d pay to attend other institutions.</p>
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<p>Yeah, that rate was the last recorded graduation rate of my old NYC neighborhood’s zoned NYC HS before the Department of Education closed it down a year or few ago due not only to academic underperformance/graduation rates, but other serious issues.</p>
<p>cobrat, my bad about Cooper and CUNY. It’s late and I’m punchy!</p>
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<p>No problem. Been there myself. :)</p>
<p>@smythic: wow that’s horrible. 13%? I bet Bergtraum is the next school on Bloomberg’s list to get shut down. I mean, this school isn’t even in a horrible neighborhood, its like 2-3 blocks from City Hall and it was a historically reputable school. I think part of this school’s downfall lies in the fact that trade schools are becoming increasingly unpopular and the lack of effort the city puts into improving the conditions there.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the brother of a friend of my daughter’s is a junior at Harvard, having graduated from Murray Bergtram.</p>
<p>Donald, I was surprised the woman I spoke with was so forthcoming with the grad rate. In this article, which has info about the riot, the school is described as “struggling” – an understatement. The article goes on to say there are no plans to close it.</p>
<p>[Murry</a> Bergtraum students riot after bathroom access denied | GothamSchools](<a href=“http://gothamschools.org/2010/12/09/murry-bergtraum-students-riot-after-bathroom-access-denied/]Murry”>http://gothamschools.org/2010/12/09/murry-bergtraum-students-riot-after-bathroom-access-denied/)</p>
<p>oldmom, amazing that a Bergtraum graduate could get into Harvard. Kudos to him!</p>
<p>According to the state report card for Murray Bergtraum High School, the graduation rate for 2011 was 61 percent. Not great, and they didn’t make the progress target for that year which was 64 percent.</p>
<p>It’s here:
<a href=“https://reportcards.nysed.gov/files/2010-11/AOR-2011-310200011520.pdf[/url]”>https://reportcards.nysed.gov/files/2010-11/AOR-2011-310200011520.pdf</a>
page 12.</p>
<p>That’s the most recent state report card on the website.</p>
<p>The bathroom riot was in December of 2010.</p>
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<p>If that’s the worst behavior Murray Bergtraum High has to deal with to the point of calling that a riot*, then it sounds like a far better and safer school than my old neighborhood’s zoned high school with serious security/crime problems and a student graduation rate only slightly more than half that of Murray Bergtraum. </p>
<ul>
<li>What they did would have been called a “bum rush” back when I was in middle school in the late '80s. Something which annoyed teachers/staff right before/after recess…but not a big deal compared with more serious matters…such as dealing with some ne’er do well students who mugged local passerby during our recess period. :(</li>
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<p>I agree. I am from NYC too and my middle school was mainly hispanic kids and we were all terrible writers and we speak with accents, maybe that explains my 460 in writing. But many of us were great at math and I scored a 770 on the math portion of my SAT’s.</p>
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<p>It was true. Keep in mind I attended middle/high-school in NYC from the late '80s till the mid-'90s.</p>
<p>Very startling.</p>
<p>WHY would that be “very startling”?? people get robbed in america every day! what is very startling to me is the lack of imagination in the average american. it doesn’t happen in your little circle, so it’s “very startling” or “say this ain’t so” when you hear of something fairly mundane. it takes a sandy hook to wake america up to the horror of gun violence. takes a 9/11 to wake folks up to the depth of resentment other people hold towards america. there are a LOT more things that you can be startled by in this country than what cobrat wrote about, if you’d just look up and PAY ATTENTION.</p>