<p>I gave my son some suggestions on ways he could improve the first drafts of his essays, and proofread them for spelling and punctuation, but I certainly didn't rewrite them at all. And wouldn't have.</p>
<p>I would never cheat for my kids because I know how much it hurts. Besides that fact that it's wrong, it makes kids feel like you don't believe in them. It undermines their self-esteem.</p>
<p>When I was twelve, I remember vividly a situation where my step-father and mom were discussing the fact that they had bought a child's ticket (under 12) for me for a special trip I was taking alone to visit my best friend's family during the summer. I was horrified! First, that my parents would be dishonest, and secondly, I was afraid that I might get caught! That they were willing to *put me at risk *for that humiliation hurt my feelings deeply.<br>
It's a small example of "cheating" compared to some of what has been discussed here, but I think most parents realize that anything that jeopardizes your kid's trust in you, or his own self-esteem, just isn't worth it.</p>
<p>Never. Too afraid of bad karma and the impact of dishonesty.</p>
<p>I don't think I have ever done anything dishonest in my life. I'm a terrible liar and really paranoid. Fear of getting caught doing anything wrong (from speeding in my car to cheating on my taxes), I just couldn't do it</p>
<p>Never. In an odd way, I have protection in such matters. As a home school parent, nobody is about to believe I am unbiased. I have tried to provide detail to their applications, but never ratings. They never even had grades, from me, or anyone else.
I confess that I am ambivalent about paid consultants' role. Cheating, maybe not. But I can see how it could shade over into it.</p>
<p>I edited S's essay, but it the end he decided which of my suggestions to take and which to ignore. The final essay was his topic and his voice. Mostly my editing helped him to get rid of the extraneous stuff which was nice, but was making the essay too long - I suggested which parts I thought were core to what he was trying to say, and which weren't necessary. Also gave suggestions for re-wording, again with the goal of shortening an essay that was initially twice as long as the Common App "suggested." When he was done it was still longer that was suggested, but it was reasonable.</p>
<p>There was a thread on here a while ago from a dad who knew that someone had falsified their transcript, and was wondering whether to expose him. I can't remember the name of it, it was about a year ago. It does happen. But mostly I think it's people having others write the essay for the kid.</p>
<p>I haven't done anything to help any of my kids. However, my d told me there's a boy in her class whose mother doesn't trust him to take care of the college applications so she is doing it all--including writing the personal essays.</p>
<p>I'm actually amused. The boy could do as good a job, see. It's that the mom is fearful that he will drop the ball by procrastinating too long with his college apps.</p>
<p>I can understand her reasoning. I share her fears! However, I would feel weird doing that work for my d.</p>
<p>Don't you think that a lot of college admissions officers could do a pretty good job figuring out that an essay sounds like it was written by a 45 or 50-year old woman, not a 17 or 18 year old boy?</p>
<p>Blatant cheating and lying - absolutely not! Those who would stoop so low as to alter a transcript or lie about themselves are not cut from the cloth of success - no matter which college they attend. Karma!</p>
<p>I see a lot of concern here for what seems to be a grey area though. As parents we are naturally in the role of guiding our children. By senior year of high school many of them have one foot in adulthood and one still in childhood. The goal is to make them independant successful adults but they are not all 100% there yet. Helping with the college application process is part of the parental role. There are many different levels to which a parent may become involved but each needs to be tailored to the individual student. </p>
<p>Some students are involved in multiple EC's while taking a heavy courseload. Some are not naturally organized. Some are better in math and science while not being naturally gifted writers. Editing or "helping" with the essay and writing components takes art, skill, and restraint to maintain their voice and not rewrite it into something else. Helping by typing and retyping info onto applications is cheating as much as the common app could be called cheating. It is difficult when procrastination is setting in on their part and anxiety on yours. </p>
<p>Personally I could have achieved much more if I had some guidance at that stage of my life. I was 100% independant yet not knowledgeable at all and it has cost me. Each generation should improve the next one for the better. I worry about excessive influence in this process and attempt to mitigate it yet this is one of the most important decisions in their life and an investment on our part. Not only a financial investment but the investment we as parents have made in the well being of our children. </p>
<p>Help, guidance, editing, organizing, researching, etc. - cheating? To me, no it is just parenting. Sure it would be great to have kids 100% on top of this. I feel sorry for those that aren't getting the guidance but they will eventually find their way - I did. And so will the ones getting the help.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Don't you think that a lot of college admissions officers could do a pretty good job figuring out that an essay sounds like it was written by a 45 or 50-year old woman, not a 17 or 18 year old boy?>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Some young people have very mature writing styles and I wonder if some genuine essays written by 17-18 year olds are mistakenly suspected of being written (or heavily edited) by their parents or teachers.</p>
<p>I spent many years helping my kids learn to write effective essays, esp. since they seldom had teachers who gave constructive advice. (I also write for a living.) By the time high school and later, college apps, rolled around, they were able to speak in their own voices, without my input or editing. Probably the most substantive "help" I gave S1 on his essays was that he had two versions of his main Chicago essay. He wrote the first version in August, thought it was too quirky, and then wrote a completely different second essay. He asked me for my opinion after his English teacher disliked the first version but liked the second. (She was a former college admissions rep at a flagship.) I told him I thought the second one was better written, but the first one was more "him." From there, he decided to take the chance on the first essay, reworked large parts of it, and made it sing. That's what he submitted. </p>
<p>We considered a college counselor for about 15 minutes, until DH said, "but hon, you know more about the schools and this process as they relate to S1, than anyone else." He didn't see the extra value in an outside person getting involved. I could have really used some guidance in HS, but didn't get it, and I know it made my path more difficult. This forum has been a terrific source of info, advice and reality checks.</p>
<p>I also tried to step back during the app process and said a few times, "what can I do to make your life easier? Is there something I can do to help you organize what you need to do?" rather than assuming he needed my assistance with printing, copying, etc.</p>
<p>vicarious, I had the same concern. S is clearly a math/CS guy, but he writes very well. We were concerned about whether that would be an issue. We hoped that his AP and SAT scores would lend some weight to his essay-writing ability.</p>
<p>Cronie .... I <em>know</em> what you mean about the under 12 ticket. My mom would do that in a heartbeat ... and I felt slimed. eww and I'd never ever ever do that to my kids. </p>
<p>But sure, guide them, remind them to do stuff, try to encourage DS to take a longer view on classes than just what is "interesting" .. some might help him get into college... Review essays and give input. Those are not grey areas. </p>
<p>I agree with a lot of other posters that can't see how parents -
who get their kids into certain schools by pushing the boundaries of essay "help", SAT retakes and the like -
are sort of setting their kids up to fail... unless they plan to have tutors continue writing essays in college???!!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Have you ever tried to build a pyramid out of Legos? Doesn't work.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Link to pic of Lego pyramid: The</a> Great Pyramid : a LEGO® creation by David VinZant : MOCpages.com :)</p>
<p>The Lego picture cheered me up as I ponder the stresses of college applications. Remember when one of the biggest challenges our kids faced was picking up their toys (all those Lego pieces!). I know, a random comment on a thread about honesty.</p>
<p>There are plenty of math/science people who can also write well. Over the last few years I've been sent a number of essays by kids hoping to attend Caltech. Most of those essays were very good, while still clearly reflecting their interest in science or math.</p>
<p>I think CC represents an unusually large contingent of parents who value education, and as so, want their child to have all the benefits of a solid education. As another poster said, applying to college is so entirely different than it was in our day, that it requires lots of research and investigation to find the college that's the perfect fit. Beyond that, as parents, we want to increase our child's chance of getting any financial aid as much as possible.</p>
<p>That being said, both my daughters are extremely bright, and honestly, I can't remember helping either one with any homework/assignments/studying for tests past second or third grade. And I didn't want them to be at schools based on falsely-presented abilities. My job was to arrange travel to colleges, and provide the information they needed for completing applications - I'm talking about all the all-too-personal questions about parents' education level, income level, SSN, credit card numbers, etc. that I don't necessarily share with my kids on a regular basis (they'd have no idea what year H and I graduated from college, but they do know where), and don't want just floating around on a piece of paper. I never even saw my daughter's essays until after they were done and sent in. </p>
<p>I will say that one of D2's colleges encouraged parents to write a brief essay about their student, and how the parent saw them as a potential student and human being. I did do that.</p>
<p>What would be the benefit of cheating or lying? How could it possibly outweigh the risk of being exposed. </p>
<p>I have managed the application folders and the calendar of deadlines, feeding application materials to my son in manageable chunks, according to due dates. I'm sure he could do it for himself, but I somehow feel relevant in the process because of my color-coded filing system :) . I proofread his essays for grammar/spelling, but don't make any suggestions on content. I assume he knows what he wants to say, and that he can say it better than I. We invested in an SAT prep program, but I don't consider that cheating, although some might say it gives an unfair advantage to those who can afford it. I also set up an email account that he uses for college contact, and I check it and alert him if he needs to follow up or respond to something. But he chose the schools, arranged the visits, etc. </p>
<p>Sometimes I worry that I'm too involved. He seems so busy with his school work and his ECs. I guess I feel like he needs an administrative assistant for this process. Am I being a helicopter?</p>
<p>I agree that there isn't anything I can think out that could be fudged/cheated on without there being an enormous risk of being found out (thereby making it counterproductive to the goal besides being immoral), or would be a big enough deal to help a kid get in a school--at least a top school. For example, D doesn't have enough hours yet for NHS and the application is due soon. IMO, there's no point lying, though we probably could manage despite the fact that dishonesty on it is harder to pull off now since sponsor signatures are required. Really, are HYPS going to be so impressed by NHS that it's worth it? I think not.</p>
<p>What a lot of parents seem to do for their top students is write sick notes when the kid isn't sick but needs to stay home to study or finish homework. I don't think that's enough to make a huge admissions impact, though definitely a GPA impact on the order of the difference between a B+ and an A-. IMO, the kind of students who will thrive at an elite college are the kind who are disciplined, know how to prioritize, and can handle a heavy workload plus EC's without needing to do this. Also, in my house the need for this would most likely arise from laziness or procrastination, neither of which I want to reward.</p>
<p>However, I will admit to having done this once for one child and once for the other when there were circumstances outside their control and they had been working non-stop for days and days.</p>
<p>I have a funny story. Perhaps the ideas go to the heart of the matter. When my youngest daughter who is currently sending out college applications was in 1st grade, one day she handed us a note from her teacher.</p>
<p>The note thanked us and noted that everything had improved tremendously. After a conversation with the teacher, we learned that a prior note had been sent home. Our 6 year old read it, realized it didnt contain good tidings, and corrected the behavior noted by her teacher.</p>
<p>Once we were in possession of some facts, we casually asked her with her fourth grade sister looking on whether, perhaps, there was another note she forgot to give us. Not a word. After her 9 year old sister provide words of wisdom to the effect that it was better to come clean than to keep up the pretense, she just calmly related the fact that she had read the original note and threw it away when she realized it wasnt good news. Of course, it didnt occur to a 6 year old that note #2 might clue us in to note #1 as she scanned it for potential trouble.</p>
<p>The 17 year old now sending out college applications has a finely tuned moral compass and innate sense of fairness that was developed from everyday situations like this. If I offered help that she considered out of bounds, shed reject it. I would hope & expect that most of us spent quite a few years helping our kids develop some sort of internal moral code. Id also like to think we were in the majority... so that the original question posed by the OP would never come up in the first place in most households. </p>
<p>After all, why try to teach morality to a 6 year old just to undermine it to achieve a goal later (e.g. the college of your dreams)? But hey, two of my college classmates cheated their way into medical school one by falsifying recommendations (he got caught too). Perhaps those of us with such relaxed moral standards will be fortunate enough to have them or someone like them -- as a personal physician, plumber, accountant, etc.</p>
<p>Not even on my radar screen. What kind of example would that be setting? And as for the person who suggested having an Ivy League student take the ACT test - why would you want your child in a school where he or she may not be able to keep up? And how could this ever happen anyway? My kids always had to show their i.d.'s in order to gain entry on test day - even when it was at their school.</p>
<p>Having said that, I do know of parents who either filled out all the applications for their kids or wrote the essays. Talk about enabling cheating and laziness.</p>