<p>I really think wjb’s point of looking at her test scores was a key point in post #12: If your daughter applied ED to a school whose median SAT score, for example, is a 2050-2150 but she had, say, a 1950 (combined with a big drop in GPA her junior year), then there’s your answer as to why she was rejected. The other components of her application won’t come into play since the first two main components were out of range.</p>
<p>I’m going to disagree with the previous responses and say that I think it’s o.k. for your D, or her GC, to contact admissions. After all, this was ED and all indications were that she’d be accepted. My son contacted a school after he was denied admission to a certain major (School accepted him, but asked him to pick another major). Admissions told him that his ACT score was one point short, and then went on to say that if he increased his score by that one point, they would reconsider. Unfortunately, they were swamped with acceptances for that major, so weren’t able to accept him when he turned in the higher score. I know another person who was rejected at another school. When she called, she found out they had made a mistake in recalculating weighted to unweighted grades. She was immediately accepted. You may not get a valid reason for her rejection, but I don’t think it hurts to try.</p>
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<p>oh come on. You mean like College X calling College Y to tell them, “Whatever you do, don’t admit OP’s D. Her mother had the nerve to ask us why she was rejected!”</p>
<p>For what it is worth I will add my vote to the underdog position and say - Someone should call. I dont see alot of downside. You may not get a satisfying answer but it may help you get some closure to ask. On the other hand they may give you a concrete reason that lets you better evaluate chances at peer schools. I’d start with GC but if they dont pursue go ahead and ask yourself. I like it positioned as …not questioning the rejection or looking for reconsideration, but for assistance in othe applications</p>
<p>Counselors call all the time, I’d ask yours to. You might getsome useful info before deadlines.</p>
<p>If your counselor isn’t very experienced, you may want to give specific questions, i.e., how did they view her stats, her rigor. Was it the junior year drop or a financial aid request.</p>
<p>There is nothing to lose, why not? it may help for other applications.</p>
<p>toledo, I see nothing in the OP to suggest that “all indications were that she’d be accepted.” This is one mom who loves her wonderful dd and may think she was a shoe-in, but that doesn’t make it so. Without dd’s SAT scores and the name of the school, it’s speculation about why she didn’t make it in.</p>
<p>The only person who should call is the GC. He may get some insight, but you or your D will only be given the “there were only so many spots and so many wonderful applicants” types of platitudes. They will never tell her or you why she was rejected.
What you and you D DO need to do NOW is review the colleges that she is planning on applying to, cause this rejection should be viewed as a wake up call, and she should be SERIOUSLY looking for “safer” colleges than she might have previously considered at this point.
I know its hard, but its time to move forward. </p>
<p>DS had a similar experience [ he was deferred, but given that he was fully qualified and a legacy, we realized it was probably going to end up turning into a rejection, which it did]
He had a miserable Xmas vacation, writing essays for many colleges[ this was before the CA was accepted at most top colleges] but it worked out fine in the end. You need to get your D to focus on her applications to other colleges. Nothing will be gained by trying to find out why she was rejected.</p>
<p>Would it help to have a concrete reason for the rejection? The reason is probably the one offered in the rejection letter - that the school received too many applications from qualified students to admit all of them. </p>
<p>I think it would be foolish of adcoms to tell parents the reasons for individual decisions - they’d then have to justify them, and explain why students with the same GPA or ECs or SATs were admitted when your d wasn’t. If the GC is willing to make the call, it might help with your d’s additional applications if the adcom shares a weakness that all of you are unaware of - a missing line in an essay, so that it makes no sense; a mediocre LOR, etc. But, presuming that the application is in order, I don’t know what might be gained via a phone call. </p>
<p>Does your d have a strong list of schools remaining, including at least one safety she’d willingly attend?</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for such great feedback. It’s exactly what I needed – to hear what other parents think, or would do in my shoes, what’s appropriate, etc. It’s been really helpful to gain this perspective. To address some questions: D’s test scores do fall in the mid-range of the school’s profile; during her interview she did candidly address the junior year dip; and she is definitely moving on with other apps full steam ahead with a “get on with life” attitude. My main reason for wanting to talk to Admissions (the GC talk to them, anyway) is to get a sense of whether D is wasting her time applying to other schools with similar academic standards for admission. Yes, GC could answer that (but then GC thought she was a sure fit for this school!), but ED school has the real answer. The other competitive schools she’s planning to apply to are test-optional, and that might work in her favor (SAT/ACT scores were average, not stellar).</p>
<p>From what I’ve gathered from a former roommate who worked in his elite college’s admissions office as a work-study and acquaintances who worked Ivy admissions…when it comes to rejections GC calls are ok…parent calls are not. </p>
<p>Admissions officers want to avoid parental calls from rejected students for the following reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Sheer amount of time it would take to deal with such parents considering the greater proportion of applicants tends to be rejected ones.</p></li>
<li><p>Parental calls always take on the tinge of “Why was my wonderful dear S/D rejected?”…even if it isn’t phrased so plainly. Awkward, waste of everyone’s time, and may open university up to potential liability/other issues(i.e. Having to deal with every rejected students/parental calls inquiring about rejection). </p></li>
<li><p>May reinforce adcom perceptions that the reject decision was a right one as parent calling could demonstrate that parent is an extreme variety of micromanaging/overprotective helicopter parent who must protect S/D from rejections and other disappointments that are a natural part of life. If obnoxious enough, the word will spread which may jeopardize admissions at other schools. </p></li>
<li><p>May cause them to wonder if the parents in question intend to continue doing this after college when S/D is turned down for a job after graduation?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>“is to get a sense of whether D is wasting her time applying to other schools with similar academic standards for admission.”
well, given that ED applications usually have a higher acceptance rate than RD, I’d say she really needs to find colleges that have lower academic standards too, just in case. </p>
<p>(but then GC thought she was a sure fit for this school!)</p>
<p>A good fit or a sure acceptance? Obviously GC cant predict with certainty who will and wont get the fat envelopes, but in this case, if he thought her acceptance was a slam dunk- he was wrong. Hence the need to revisit the list of colleges and lower her sights a bit, just in case.
As I said- view this rejection as a wake up call- she may very well be aiming too high. Jr class GPA is very important to many selective colleges.</p>
<p>was this a school that met 100% of need?
Many schools are need aware & I assume that means need influences admission.</p>
<p>[Need for aid hurts admission odds](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2010/03/23/colleges-where-need-for-aid-can-hurt-admission-odds”>http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2010/03/23/colleges-where-need-for-aid-can-hurt-admission-odds</a>)</p>
<p>I see this thread is your first on cc. I dn’t know whether that means that you are new here, or have been here a long time and are using a pseudonym or have been lurking and read a lot but just decided to post. I’ll assume that you’re pretty new.</p>
<p>The fact that she was denied rather than deferred is pretty telling. If her test scores were in the midrange, know that LACs often get many more female applicants than male applicants so oftentimes the bottom part of that range is because they’re willing to take males (or legacies or athletes or minorities) with slightly lesser qualifications. If this LAC is a school that gets many more female applicants than male (you can find this on the Common Data Set for the school), then the bar will be higher for female applicants, kwim?</p>
<p>Was the interview with an adcom or an alum? Depending on the school, it may have been more informative rather than evaluative. In other words, they don’t count for a lot, and the explanation for the grade dip may not have even made its way to the office. Did the GC include the explanation in her letter? Did dd make it part of the extra information section of the Common App? If so, will you tell us the reason? Maybe we can helop you come up with a better way of explaining it. :)</p>
<p>Potentially, dd is wasting her time applying to schools of similar profiles. But, hey, everyone needs a couple of reaches so no harm done. Note, however that several of us have asked about her matches and safeties. They are REALLY important. All her apps aren’t going to schools of a caliber similar to the one that rejected her, are they? If so, you are asking for heartbreak at the end of this process.</p>
<p>RIwonderingmom, welcome to the parents forum on CC.</p>
<p>I agree with youdon’tsay, if your daughter is unhooked (not a legacy,URM, recruited athlete) stat wise in the middle of the pool and female at a LAC (where young men are underrepresented), she was fighting an uphill battle. Even if she was a stellar applicant and a candidate whose profile was not aligned with the institutional mission, it would have still been tough.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html</a></p>
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<p>This is big and a huge red flag, especially if the college asked the GC for the first marking period report cord. The dip from a 3.6 to a 3.2 is huge, especially if there were not extenuating circumstances in the drop in GPA. Senior year courses where she got A’s and low B’s does not signal that your daughter was on a comeback.</p>
<p>Unless there was a mistake on the transcript, the student calling is not going to get her past the reception desk. I definitely recommend that the GC call the regional admissions counselor (this is the person who reads the application for your school’s territory and would be the person who would take your child’s application to the admissions committee). It could very well be that your child’s application never made it to committee and the regional adcom would be able to give the GC some insight to your daughter’s application. </p>
<p>What you want to come out of the conversation is not why your daughter was rejected from school A (because this is a wrap), but what does the adcom think your daughter can do to strengthen her application so that she can be accepted somewhere else.</p>
<p>RIwonderingmom – sorry that your daughter is going through this, it is such a brutal process. However, if the main reason for wanting to have the GC talk to Admissions is to get a sense as to whether she is “wasting her time” applying to schools with similar academic standards – I’m not sure how this will really tell you anything. So long as she does definitely have some schools on her list which are less competitive to get into and where her GPA and test scores are towards the top of the range, I wouldn’t discourage her from applying to at least some of the other schools that are similarly competitive to the original school. One really doesn’t know for sure what is going to happen in this process. It sounds as if she does have an explanation for the junior year drop, and some admissions officers might view this reason differently than others, you just can’t predict, particularly if her overall GPA/ test scores are still within what the college expects for its applicants. If she genuinely believes that she is an academic fit for actually studying on an ongoing basis at the more competitive schools, and she can demonstrate this in her application (despite the junior year blip), then there doesn’t seem to be a reason not to go for it – again, so long as she also submits applications to somewhat less selective schools.</p>
<p>One of the most important skills in life is to deal with someone who’s saying NO, and get them to shed light so that you have a chance to change that outcome. Many of us are reluctant to start a dialog in such a situation, especially a youngster dealing with someone in authority, and learning how to overcome this hangup and actually steer it in a manner you want is to me a more valuable skill than understanding Shakespeare’s plays. </p>
<p>So even assuming you don’t get a change, it’s well worth planning a strategy, approaching them, and learning how to deal with those who tell you to get lost, circumventing people who stand in your way, and restoring confidence in yourself after an unhelpful or condescending dialog, to regroup and try again. You daughter has nothing to lose, but can gain a lot in trying to get people to open up and talk, to get them to listen, to persevere, to negotiate, etc. The next time she needs to do this, when she’s selling an unpopular idea to her peers or profs, she’ll be more confident. I say go for it, but rehearse, and let her do the talking, and don’t do it with the only objective of changing the outcome, and if it ends in defeat, don’t take it personally.</p>
<p>No, stop wasting people’s time. They will not give any reason you can use anyway. Sometimes no means just that. Not a negotiating situation.</p>
<p>Go for a walk with D (side by side means no dominance in play) and say “Look, you and I know what caused the dip in your GPA --that’s in the past but it IS hurting you now. We need to identify a college that you will love, love, love and admittance is easy. This is no time to be a snob because that GPA dip that shot you down ED may have some more bombs to lay”.</p>
<p>Love thy safety. Our top scoring, wilting GPA S2 is at his safety – and it is the right choice for him. He ran into some further challenges and this small, happy college is letting him claw his way out. This could be a win-win. Son is gaining maturity and self knowledge and Happy College may, one day, get some big returns on their patience with this brilliant, sweet and stumble prone kid. </p>
<p>College applications favor the Daffodils in life (those who blossom bright and early) – and some of the most fantastic of roses need more time (and more heat) to bloom.</p>
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You don’t have to be so altruistic. The adcoms have clearly had a lot of students such as your daughter waste their times in applying without feeling bad about it. </p>
<p>Getting people to open the door, getting past the sentry who’s been asked to keep people out, getting to the boss, getting to the boss’s boss, not taking no without question … these are all stellar life skills. See if your daughter can reach above the adcoms and talk in general terms (not her case) about issues that you suspect like dropping grades, and see if you can start a dialog about extenuating circumstances.<br>
Make the primary objective this “growing up” opportunity, and you may get some closure. If your daughter has invested enough of her soul and her time, you have every reason to ask them for something more than a single syllable in return. There’s nothing wrong in being tenacious if you’re in the ballpark.<br>
I know a student who didn’t get into a very exclusive summer math camp and he used just such a strategy, and after talking to a half dozen people, got an acceptance.</p>