<p>Olymom, I love your wisdom regarding this process! A very helpful perspective, and I second the notion of considering safeties very carefully, and then nurturing those applications.</p>
<p>I guess I would just add to the OP: ask the GC to make the call, and I think somebody here made some excellent suggestions about asking specific questions about essays, GPA, FA status, etc. Also have the GC ask about recs! Maybe the GC has used a template, in which case she/he might be willing to rewrite this for the RD round? Maybe one the teachers has said something unfavorable and your DD would be better served by asking for a reference from another teacher prior to the deadline? There are some hidden elements to the application about which GC should also ask. Given that the GC was off-base in his/her predicted outcome, GC should now put in some admirable effort to communicate with all parties and help strengthen your DD’s chances for RD round. Please update us in April!</p>
<p>"There’s nothing wrong in being tenacious if you’re in the ballpark. "You daughter has nothing to lose, "
Dad of 3
She is NOT in the ballpark. She was rejected. Period. And she has a limited window of time to do research, if needed, and get applications submitted before the RD deadline. For her to try to reach someone who will NOT give her any insight as to why she was rejected is pointless. I happen to agree with Barrons and others- A call to the admissions office by a student or parent [ unless they have given MILLIONS of dollars to the college] IS a WASTE OF TIME.<br>
The only one who MIGHT squeeze a bit of info out of a busy ad com is the GC. But dont count on it.
The time to move on is now.</p>
<p>If I were an adcom, I’d be more than annoyed if I had to field all these phone calls from parents, students, or GC’s asking why a student didn’t get in. And I would be more than annoyed at someone trying to sweet-talk their way in when it’s clear that they weren’t on the OMG-have-to-have-them list. I completely disagree with Dadof3. They do NOT owe the student, parents, or GC any more explanation other than “I’m sorry, it didn’t work out, best of luck to you in your future endeavors.”</p>
<p>Exactly. You don’t want to hear the answer – I get it – but they did give you the answer. Again, unless there is a reason to believe there was some kind of “technical” mistake – such as a mix-up with someone else with the same name or something along those lines – you are delusional to be calling about a student who had a drop down to 3.2 and asking “why was she rejected.” You know the answer. OK, it is what it is – no sense stewing about the past – but you can’t do anything about it, so what’s the point?</p>
<p>OP, did your D have a 3.2 average for junior year, or did she dip from a 3.6 overall to a 3.2 overall? If the latter, that means she was likely under 3.0 junior year, which would indeed be a big red flag. </p>
<p>Time to make sure she has schools that are more likely targets for her. Work on those essays. </p>
<p>I would think long and hard about not sending scores to test-optional schools. That strategy tends to work better for kids with good grades but scores that do not accurately reflect their ability. If you don’t send in scores, the schools don’t have much to go on except for her grades — and that dip is noteworthy.</p>
<p>She may want to think about whether she wants to disclose what happened junior year/what she learned from it/have a conversation with the GC and see if it is appropriate for the <em>GC</em> to disclose in an updated rec letter. (We had the GC discuss some family events in rec letters that my kids didn’t want to write about, but were willing to let the schools know about as background info).</p>
<p>Olymom, your post made me cry (sorry to sound maudlin). That is a unique and beautiful way to look at it. In your analogy, she is indeed the later-blooming rose. CountingDown, her overall GPA remains at 3.5; the numbers I gave were for each year.</p>
<p>I just wanted to add that about half of the LACs where S was accepted but didn’t go sent him a form asking if he could explain why he chose to go elsewhere (sometimes in a tedious amount of detail). Honestly, if the schools feel they can ask, it seems like an applicant should be able to, but perhaps a letter would be better?</p>
<p>I have to say though, I don’t really see the point here. Unjust or not, it seems like you know why she was rejected. She really will be able to be happy and flourish at other schools!</p>
<p>Yep, her test scores probably needed to be above average to offset her “below average/somewhat average” (speculation on my part) GPA. If I were your D’s GC, I’m not sure I would convey anything to the effect that your D is “wasting her time” since they try to keep things optimistic. You may want to check Naviance on the school’s website to see how other kids fared at the schools still under consideration, but keep in mind that her numbers can tend to look in range, particularly if hooked applicants were accepted with lesser stats.</p>
<p>“Honestly, if the schools feel they can ask, it seems like an applicant should be able to, but perhaps a letter would be better?”</p>
<p>At that point, the student was in the drivers seat. And your Son could choose to ignore the request for information, which by the way, probably came from the colleges enrollment management company , not the admissions office itself, and is merely a information gathering questionnaire for their use in targeting future students . The rejected student in this instance is not in the drivers seat , nor is she dealing from a position of strength.</p>
<p>ADcoms have now moved on to reading RD applications that are now complete, and wont come up for air until mid March.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t do it. If the GC has a good relationship with the school, he/she might get an honest answer - but you already know it is the 3.2 gpa junior year. I would focus on looking forward. there are a lot of good schools out there - one for everybody.</p>
<p>I would hope that some rejected applicants, especially those who are rightfully perplexed by the rejection, would question Adcoms’ decisions, if only to keep colleges honest.</p>
<p>"I would hope that some rejected applicants, especially those who are rightfully perplexed by the rejection, would question Adcoms’ decisions, if only to keep colleges honest. "</p>
<p>Bay, the colleges have no obligation to say why a student was rejected. Therefore, they wont. And they dont. Ever. Unless the applicant was the offspring of a huge donor or a fifth generation legacy or the son of a trustee or has some other type of very important connection to the college. The college is in the drivers seat in this situation, not the applicant, and certainly not a rejected applicant.</p>
<p>menlnoparkmom,
Are you an Adcom? Please re-read posts 14, 22, 25.</p>
<p>Why are you so dead-set against OP or her D making an inquiry? If it will make them feel better, why not do it? They are fully aware that they might not get a satisfying answer. But if you don’t ask, you will never know.</p>
<p>In an ideal world, you can make the exact same argument about questioning HR or hiring manager decisions when it comes to jobs in the working world. </p>
<p>However, everyone I knew of who has attempted to do so from what I’ve heard from HR colleagues at a few places and witnessed in one case has ended up being politely ignored at best and if as persistent as Dad3 suggests…had security show up to immediately hustle them out of their offices while they shake their heads at the sheer cluelessness of not understanding how a NO actually means a NO.</p>
<p>Great attitude and just what is needed in this situation. I can’t see any reason for calling the school that rejected her. I would assume that this ED rejection means she could be on the bubble for any schools with similar profiles and she should re-examine the safety school situation.</p>
<p>Older D was rejected on the EA round years ago and it made her go through her essays one more time to tighten them up. She was accepted by a college with a similar profile in the RD round with essentially the same application packet (it was turned in prior to the EA decision coming out, so no revisions).</p>
<p>Adcoms expect to get such calls from GCs. Part of the job. And if the GCs understand better what the college is looking for, he/she will steer the right applicants to them and steer the others away. Works to make life easier for everyone.</p>
<p>In addition, some essays may inadvertently send a red flag. That may come up in a GC conversation and the student would happily rewrite the essay before sending it out to a dozen more universities.</p>
<p>Some bit of info might have been misentered and could be fixed in future apps.</p>
<p>And the question of financial aid is also pertinent. If OP’s D indicated the need for FA, it may impact the decision. Future apps should be looked at in this light.</p>
<p>Perhaps there is a reason to explain the drop in grades junior year and perhaps the GC didn’t really do an effective job explaining. This is another area that could be strengthened for future apps.</p>
<p>Finally, as mentioned, there could be a negative cast to one of the rec letters. That could also be removed from future apps.</p>
<p>College adcoms are people who want kids to get into college, for goodness sakes. Just sometimes not theirs. </p>
<p>Good luck to the OP. Ideally the GC should call. The OP sounds professional in all posts here and I respect her desire to improve the applications to come.</p>
<p>My understanding is these decisions are usually made by committee, i.e., by vote, which means there may be no clear reason for it. One person might have been concerned about the dip in junior year grades, another that the school had already admitted too many similar applicants and they were looking for a little more diversity, and so on, another that they had already admitted too many from the ED pool and this particular admissions officer wanted to save more slots for the RD pool where he had some really promising candidates. Some of those reasons may have been articulated at the meeting, others not. In that circumstance it’s not just that they don’t want to tell you, but that they can’t, because there’s no particular reason they could identify. </p>
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