Online application debate

<p>....but if you don't mind I will repost it here since Carolyn has started a new thread on the same news story:</p>

<p>A good college admissions process “is not like computer dating — it’s like love letters,” said Theodore A. O’Neill, dean of admissions at the University of Chicago. He said that current trends in online applications take away students’ individuality and result in “generic” and “utterly boring” essays. O’Neill went so far as to predict that current trends in electronic admissions could pave the way for a nationally centralized system of deciding who gets placed in which college — a development he said would be horrible.</p>

<p>My kids wrote highly individualized "love letter" essays to their first choice schools (they all got in ED or EA so far and didn't have to send others)....the adcoms specifically mentioned the essays to us in emails and also the Dean spoke to us in person at a Parents' Executive Committee meeting. The President also knew about the essays (in one case) and mentioned them twice on different occasions!</p>

<p>These essays were for highly selective schools. I doubt this would be necessary at those giant factory schools that must process a gazillion apps.....</p>

<p>Edit - The above is not about the Common App but just about the essay, obviously. I'll keep my opinion about the Common App to myself.</p>

<p>Dmd77, jmmom, Lderochi, thank you for providing the correct interpretation of what I was trying to say. </p>

<p>Regarding the Curmudgeon story, I also remember reading a report about the mailroom of the admission office. An adcom commented that they looked at stacks of Fedex boxes with some irony since the boxes would not be open for days or weeks. I am quite certain that behind every one of those boxes that was a mother or a dad frantically seeking the last FedEx location that woulds still be open; the parents could let the box go, but not the heart-wrenching feeling that something was missing from that precious box. Even if they heard that the admission offices may misplace part of the file and ask for a duplicate, they cannot get rid of the worries. It is just part of the process. :) </p>

<p>Looking the "other side," the online application gives a straight answer as far as deliverability. You know that the documents are there! While this duplicates the work of the admission offcies, I also assume that there is nothing terribly wrong about sending a hard-copy of everything, and especially the essays that require a "nicer" formatting. </p>

<p>Speaking about the essays ... When I started the process, I hated it and could focus on the potential "cheating" aspect or the subjectivity of the readers. However, I started to realize how important the essays were as it was the ONLY place where one could convey personal thoughts. As I was working through the various requirements, I also saw that a clear favorite was emerging. To complete the assignment, I read more than 15 books about the subject of my essay and LOVED every minute of it. I rewrote it countless times, and still ran out of time as I submitted it with 5 minutes to spare. At the end of the process, I knew that I wanted to attend THAT school, at least if they let me in!</p>

<p>"The only response I can give to his overblown blustering that "You can’t underline a bloody title? That’s not trivial to people who care about words" is -- oh grow up and stop arguing just for the sake of hearing yourself argue. It's a college application, not a dissertation. Are you really telling me that it's difficult to get a real feel for an applicant because he or she can't underline a bloody title? "</p>

<p>You really missed the point there - grammar is actually considered one of the studies of liberal arts, historically. It's not that adcoms care about titles being underlined (UChicago, O'Neill's own school, specifically says not to worry about technicalities such as underlining), but some APPLICANTS do. I do. It seriously bugged me that I could not underline a title of a book or a magazine or a movie. I wanted to be grammatically correct. I cared about that, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who did. Online applications takes the factor of accuracy away from applicants who care. That was his point.</p>

<p>And you being angry over O'Neill's "anger": realize that the article is out of context... I'm willing to bet that the opposition was just as heated as he was.</p>

<p>Actually, technology could deal with this if a few simple formatting codes were allowed and the software at the other end were updated to recognize them. This would give some advantage to the technically adept - but OTOH, a hand-written application selects for those with beautiful printing.</p>

<p>I liked UNC-Chapel Hill's online app in regard to the essay's. You attatch a file in .doc or .txt form, then they transform it into a pdf file. That way you can format it exactly the way you want.</p>

<p>From a HS senior who has completed his applications:</p>

<p>If anyone is looking for a student viewpoint, I'll give my facts & two cents.</p>

<p>I applied to 8 colleges. After receiving all of the paper applications, I chose which ones I would apply to online. I ended up applying to four online and four on paper (UChicago was one). My decision was based on the structure and questions of the applications themselves and the convenience of each respective online app (some were easy to follow, some were more confusing or binding than the paper).</p>

<p>As for the Common Application, I used it to apply to two of my schools, only because they accepted it exclusively. The vast majority of students that I know DO NOT apply to a college simply because it too is on the common app. The application fee puts a stop to that. </p>

<p>Many people may say that the Common Application is impersonal or generalized, but in all honesty, it varies very little from most other applications. I think the entire application process in general is too impersonal. I was shocked at how little information they asked. I've learned now that it's not about having solid, plentiful accomplishments, but having the <em>right</em> accomplishments that can be fit easily onto an application.</p>

<p>The Common App doesn't allow underlining? Funny, I remember how my D got around that. She printed out the page and got out a ruler and a pen... but then, we mailed the copies.</p>

<p>My S used the Common App as well as the Supplement. For both, he used the "topic of your choice prompt." He printed each essay on a separate sheet of paper. Although he did not need to italicize anything, it would have been easy with this format. I don't see what the big deal is.
I would not inflict my handwriting on anybody. I pity the poor instructors or TFs who have to read his for the next four years.</p>

<p>I am a high school junior beginning the process of narrowing down choices and visiting schools. What I didn't read in your responses was the possibility of using the common application and supplementing it with a resume that can more substantively focus on strengths and passions that don't fit on application. I have seen nothing on school's websites admissions pages that rule out or discourage sending resume with admissions materials. Have any of your kids or you students sent resumes? Do the schools object?</p>

<p>Some colleges discourage the sending of supplemental materials, i.e. anything that the colleges did not specifically request. This may include resumes, extra recommendations, portfolios, etc...
Other colleges welcome supplemental materials. In that case, sending a resume is fine. My S sent a one-page resume to his SCEA school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"The only response I can give to his overblown blustering that "You can’t underline a bloody title? That’s not trivial to people who care about words" is -- oh grow up and stop arguing just for the sake of hearing yourself argue. It's a college application, not a dissertation. Are you really telling me that it's difficult to get a real feel for an applicant because he or she can't underline a bloody title? "

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just wanted to point out that in some situations there is a ** lot ** more involved than the underlining of a title. Son's main essay to Chicago was an 800-word poem. (One of his main ec's is creative writing.) The poem format was appropriate since the prompt was a clip from Langston Hughes. Just try to format a poem correctly for an online application! Obviously impossible....</p>

<p>He ended up mailing the "essay" separately from the application. We know that it arrived in Chicago on the 26th from the postal confirmation, but it still hasn't been listed on his credentials. So we are sweating it out until they confirm it's been received. Right now, Chicago has boxes and boxes of things to file: they even sent Son a picture of the mess. So we hold our breath hoping that the essay turns up.</p>

<p>Two sides of the same coiin.... When you send something in online you know it gets there instantly. There is no pulling of hair or gnashing of teeth. But if you do any kind of writing where the format matters as much or more than the content (as is true with poetry), the common app online is pretty useless. In son's case, the poem format was not only an appropriate response to a particular prompt but also conveys a lot about who he is. That individuality was simply wiped out on the online app.</p>

<p>Cami:</p>

<p>You raise a good issue.<br>
But there are so many different issues conflated under the single rubric of Common App. One is the online vs. typed hardcopy vs. handwritten hardcopy. Another is the lack of flexibility of the current Common App format--something that could be fixed with technology. IIt should not be so difficult to allow for underlining, bolding or italicizing. I think, however, that an uncommon essay format, such as a poem, should be printed in hard copy. Whether online of printed, it is hard to imagine forms that would accommodate long poems.
Yet another is the receipt of materials by adcoms. While sending things online makes for instantaneous reception, not all materials can be sent that way: resumes, artwork, letters of recommendation, transcripts, etc... We sent everything snail mail. The college website only acknowledged receipt of standard items. So we did not know whether the college transcript or the extra rec had been received (and the admission office refused to tell us).
Finally, there is the issue of multiple applications. The Common App may enable students to apply to more colleges than before, but so much is purely repetitive information, such as school address, date of birth, etc... 9/10 of the Chicago app or the MIT app are similar to the Common App. The chief difference is in the essay prompts and, for MIT, the questions asked in the rec forms.</p>

<p>A know that one of my essays for the Stanford online application had a very important italicized word. Fortunately, the form simply allowed me to upload a microsoft word document. I know of a number of friends who had similar experiences. Thus I think that the criticism offered against online applications is unfair. </p>

<p>In terms of the individualization, I am quite confused. It was my long held belief that I was supposed to present myself in the college application and the university was supposed to decide if I fit in with their culture. The U of C speaker almost acts like a student should taylor their applications to the desires of individual schools, something that seems to me unwise and unhealthy inthe selection process. Should a college application be a love letter, full of half truths and whole lies aimed to please the other person, or a careful assessment of the skills of an applicant. Sure, it may be cold, and it may be impersonal, but ultimately it is fairer and a better indicator of true academic talent.</p>

<p>Sigh....the message is really about BORING essays, not UNFORMATTED essays.</p>

<p>That's right. And on that count, O'Neill is wrong. A "topic of your choice" which is what my S chose to write on for BOTH his essays for the same college on the Common App, should not yield boring essays. Heck, he could have written one on what to do with a gigantic jar of mustard!</p>

<p>Danashu,
My daughter is using "additional information" section to provide a bit of detailed information on her most important activities. It does require her to really focus in on which activities are most important to her, and how to convey them succinctly because there's limited space there. But, it is do-able with a bit of thought. She has then put "see additional information" in the area next to each of the activities on the common app. activity section. She figures this way it's not supplemental information, but "additional information" which, after all, the common application specifically provides space for.</p>

<p>carolyn - how much space is there in this additional information section? Is it an entire page? About how many lines can you fit in.
I haven't seen it, because S is doing his online and I don't have his login code. I was wondering, though, if he will be able to fit hs activity list in that space.</p>

<p>Somewhere on the common app. FAQ section they specify the CHARACTER limit that will fit and I seem to recall it was like 6,000 characters including spaces (but double check). </p>

<p>My daughter's activity information was about three quarters of a page in Word format, but it wasn't wordy. She used a kind of modified bullet point format. On the print check for the common application it looked like it fills the entire page.</p>

<p>Just double checked on the Common app. site. yes, you can have 6000 characters in the additional information section. Be sure to print proof it to double check that whatever you put there fits. My daughter's activity info. was about 35 lines, including spaces between sections. Again, she wasn't wordy. She just felt that she needed to provide a bit more explanation about her major activities that the activity section didn't allow.</p>

<p>My two cents:</p>

<p>The admissions process is torture for everyone involved (meaning high schools, parents, and students). Most families find the experience very stressful, at least with the first kid. The typical family with teenage children at home needs more deadlines, conflict, and tears about as much as they need bullet holes in their heads. </p>

<p>The Common App reduces the stress. So does online submission. Fewer nights spent on essays instead of on real schoolwork, fewer midnight trips to the post office, fewer hours spent printing and re-printing because you discovered a typo on a finished handwritten page...There's no way to eliminate the emotional strain that comes with kids being judged, but it doesn't have to be such a giant pain in the butt.</p>

<p>I'd like to see every selective college accept the Common App the way they all accept the SAT.</p>