<p>Love post #51. Where you live makes a huge difference. If I drive an hour and a half away to either where my sister lives or where I grew up, it’s a completely different world. The article would make no sense to my old friends living in my parents’ town. When I first moved to where I now reside, it was a huge culture shock. I remember being at library story time with my eldest when he was 4, and a lady I had never met before started giving me the 3rd degree about why my son could read already and proceeded to lecture me about how I was going to burn him out if I kept pushing him. Funny thing is that while I read to him a lot, I never deliberately taught him to read! </p>
<p>PG, this has been discussed before on many threads over the years, and you are once again intent on insinuating that I and those who share my experiences have some rather unattractive qualities, like caring too much what people think and being deserving of what gets said to us. So again I will explain that you don’t completely get this because you probably didn’t experience the jealous behavior nearly as much since you were not in the world of youth sports and don’t currently live in the NE. Secondly, please understand that no one incident is particularly troublesome for the reasons you suggest: I don’t know the person or care about her opinion. But the constant drip of it can become really irritating. It seems to be the worst in the fall when parents of seniors are stressed and worried. It’s certainly possibly that with one or two people I may have done or said something to spark a comment, but identical encounters have happened often enough with people I don’t really know that I’ve concluded it’s the culture here. The parents mentioned up-thread who were surprised about college costs threw in some judgmental comments about how they don’t understand why ANYONE would pay the kind of tuition we must have paid, it’s crazy, not worth it yada yada. Not a big problem, doesn’t make me take my ball and go home, but it’s wearing and I don’t see such negative comments addressed to parents of kids who attend other schools. </p>
<p>@TheGFG that’s been my experience here maybe it’s the Northeast and sports mixed together??</p>
<p>@blossom I agree each child needs what they need from their parents so they are able at some point to go out into the world and stand on their own two feet. What works for one may kill the other and each child needs what they need-I do not see how anyone can make any judgement on that and frankly I don’t know why anyone would care? </p>
<p>This article is talking about something above and beyond helping your child grow-at least that’s how I read it. I can only put in my own two cents-working with a lot of HS kids for many years has been a great blessing to me and made me (I hope) a better parent. I do see kids who are pushed to the max and beyond and it isn’t always because they have this inner drive. There are some who do. There are many who don’t but feel pressure to conform to what is expected of them by parents or peers. I don’t think that is an earth shattering observation on my part I think many of us have seen the same thing. </p>
<p>“I do see kids who are pushed to the max and beyond and it isn’t always because they have this inner drive. There are some who do. There are many who don’t but feel pressure to conform to what is expected of them by parents or peers.”</p>
<p>I don’t see these kids in high school or in college. They may exist, but lots of children accept family values and some reject them. If the family values are academic, sports, or music and the kid buys into the values, then it isn’t pressure. It is a system of belief that the child subscribes to. For example, I’m always a bit surprised my younger has bought into the academic work as well as she has. I guess, as an introvert, she likes the hours of studying. I just wish I bought into her music (2 instruments) better. Still she has the inner drive for music, and I won’t thwart it. These are really family patterns that are, for the most part, healthy.</p>
<p>"I don’t see these kids in high school or in college. They may exist, but lots of children accept family values and some reject them. If the family values are academic, sports, or music and the kid buys into the values, then it isn’t pressure. "</p>
<p>Paying a lot of attention to what other people think is a family value.</p>
<p>I see a lot of them and I am concerned about them because I care about them-I wish I didn’t see it as much as I do. I promise you they do exist at least in my neck of the woods.</p>
<p>Kids pay a lot of attention to what others think-as they mature and grow the hope is they will realize that happiness is an inside job and the values you hold have nothing to do with what anyone else thinks but with what you believe. We have never cared one bit about what others think of how we raise our children nor do we care how they raise theirs. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors-I have enough on my plate without getting involved in being concerned what anyone else is doing.</p>
<p>My mother told me growing up to mind my own business it was a full time job. I have tried to do my best to live that way and teach my kids the same things. I doubt there are many HS students who are able to totally rise above the peer pressure they are facing as they are trying to make this decision. Some are better able to do so than others-but it’s not easy.</p>
<p>The author of this article raised issues that I have seen or felt and I liked the article. If it doesn’t apply to others that doesn’t mean it is completely off base-it means others haven’t had the same experience.</p>
<p>“My mother told me growing up to mind my own business it was a full time job. I have tried to do my best to live that way and teach my kids the same things. I doubt there are many HS students who are able to totally rise above the peer pressure they are facing as they are trying to make this decision. Some are better able to do so than others-but it’s not easy.”</p>
<p>I agree it’s difficult for HS students to totally rise above peer pressure, but I think parents can model the concept of (as someone said upthread) “you do you.” And if a student sees a parent repeatedly becoming exasperated, upset, or even just talking about Mrs. Nosypants’ comments, it reinforces for him or her that what Mrs. Nosypants has to say is something to consider or think about. You can also model that Mrs. Nosypants’ comments are like the proverbial trees falling in the forest, too, and be dismissive of them or suggest that Mrs. Nosypants needs a life and change the subject, rather than try to “defend” against them. </p>
<p>“Paying attention to what others do and making critical comments to them about their choices must be a family value too.”</p>
<p>Right. I’m sure that 80% of the parents in my kids’ school didn’t “do” their kids’ college decision the way <em>I</em> would have. And they probably made mistakes, or chose on poor criteria, or this or that. Oh well! Other people aren’t my problem. </p>
<p>I still do not understand why is it so important to others what other families do for their kids and why it whould be important to me? Where is a beef?<br>
One girl at D’s HS has never ever ever wore the same piece of clothing twice. Why should I care? I remember it as something amuzing and very positive as somebody who support our (or other country) economy way beyond of what is expected of consumer. I imagine that this family also contributed to salvation army or simply a needy family much more.<br>
We always took our D. to our very fancy and expensive vacations while many others were leaving kids behind going on such trips. We have also sent her to private k - 12.<br>
Go ahead, critisize me and others, does it make any difference? Again, where is a beef? Why do we care if others over- or under-parenting? Thank goodness, I am not supporting my S., who is raising his own kids. But what if I decided to actually do so? I bet some will revolt…but I do not understand why…</p>
<p>We practiced what I would call very active, involved parenting. We spent a lot of time with the kids, and with their activities. We helped them identify activities that fit their interests, and we encouraged them to do their best in them. I think you can do this without “overparenting” or “helicoptering.” I think it’s about letting your kids make the important choices, and then supporting them. I like to say that instead of “Tiger” parenting, we practiced “Donkey” parenting, which is the kind where you drive the kids to lots of rehearsals and practices, and bring all the gear, and film the performance, and let the rock band practice in your basement, and help with Boy Scouts, etc., etc., etc. We followed this same approach when it came time to research, visit, and apply to colleges. My observation is that parents who follow this approach get very good results.</p>
<p>I agree. Note how little of what Hunt is describing corresponds with getting actively involved, upset, worried, whatever about competing with other parents or what other parents are doing. </p>
<p>^ Miami, the why of this is what I was trying to answer in my posts above, which is: 1) jealousy and 2) lack of confidence on the part of the parent regarding his/her own choices. Confident parents (like you miamiDAP) whose kids are doing well are not generally the ones who care, unless they are very competitive and in their minds another child has somehow supplanted their kid (seen in the arena of sports and drama). I obviously don’t know the author of the article, but others who say the same thing may or may not be basing their remarks on at actual extreme pushing. It just could be a style that is more intense than they would do (and as pointed out by blossom, could very well be needed). Basically their feeling is that if you do it like they do it, you’re normal. If you do more than they do, you’re excessive, and if you do less you’re borderline negligent lol. </p>
<p>Btw, donkey parenting can also seen by these folks as “too much.” For example, the parents who drive their kids and gear all over the region for travel teams are viewed as crazy and likely deluded about the kid’s future in the sport, regardless of the passion shown by the player himself. So while the Hunts of the world see themselves as facilitators of their children’s interests and are so in truth, from the outside it can painted as over-involvement by those who are jealous or lack confidence. </p>
<p>“Donkey parenting is also seen by these folks as too much. For example, the parents who drive their kids and gear all over region for travel teams are viewed as crazy and likely deluded about the kid’s future in the sport, regardless of the passion shown by the player himself. Basically, their feeling is that if you do it like they do it, you’re normal. If you do more than they do, you’re excessive, and if you do less you’re borderline negligent lol.”</p>
<p>Once again with feeling, TheGFG. If <em>you</em> are happy with how <em>you</em> are doing it – and you feel confident that it’s working for your family, your kids, etc. – then WHAT DOES IT MATTER if other people think you are crazy for doing it?</p>
<p>A family related to ours invested <em>tons</em> in their kids’ sports – two of them wound up with D1 scholarships, the other on a D1 team at an Ivy (so no scholarship per se). <em>To me and my H,</em> that amount of investment in something as unimportant (in our opinion) as sports was insane, and we would never do it, and we never did. But what was the point of expressing that point of view to our relatives? They were going to do their own thing. Why would our opinions be of any use to them in how to run <em>their</em> family? I assume they were fine with it, since it’s, well, what they did. </p>
<p>And if they thought we weren’t Devoted Enough to the pursuit of sports – again, so what? If my H and I were aligned, who else needs to be aligned?</p>
<p>You continually absorb other people’s opinions, which makes me wonder if you aren’t fully confident. Because when you’re fully confident, other people’s opinions bounce right off you and fall to the floor. </p>
<p>Is there any possibility that when you’re fully confident you don’t argue nearly endlessly with anonymous people who don’t agree with your version of how things are in the world? Just wondering.</p>
<p>Can we discuss the article please? Since this isn’t an advice thread, any personal anecdotes are for illustrative purposes and not intended to be used as fodder for psychoanalysis of posters by others. PG, the way you have singled me out on this and other threads proves my point. (I was not even talking about myself in the last post about donkey parenting, since we didn’t do a lot of sports travel.) You are a perfect example of a parent who doesn’t know me, has no reason to concern yourself with what I do, think, or feel, and who has no reason to care whether said actions, thoughts or feelings are rational or not from your perspective. Yet somehow the facts you do know about me consistently cause you to want to point out where I err and how, in contrast, you do not. Why is that? Why motivates you to make this personal? IRL, do you constantly single out for unfavorable comment the people you think are too insecure? I would think most people would try to reassure the insecure, not the opposite. </p>
But, see, some people do express their point of view to relatives, friends, ex-friends, and even acquaintances. Some of them do it over and over, and it gets annoying. I, personally, get annoyed by people who post how they would never spend big bucks for a fancy college and that people who do so are obsessed prestige-hounds. I know it’s not true, but for some reason, it still irks me when people insult my judgment. Heck, I get annoyed when an anonymous poster on the Internet keeps saying that anybody who tries hard should be able to excel in K-12–even though my kids did excel.</p>
<p>@TheGFG “Btw, donkey parenting can also seen by these folks as “too much.” For example, the parents who drive their kids and gear all over the region for travel teams are viewed as crazy and likely deluded about the kid’s future in the sport, regardless of the passion shown by the player himself. So while the Hunts of the world see themselves as facilitators of their children’s interests and are so in truth, from the outside it can painted as over-involvement by those who are jealous or lack confidence.”</p>
<p>Possibly. The only comment I generally get vis-a-vis my role as pack animal is “Are you going to <insert event=”" here=""> Saturday? Can you give Hunter/Isabella/Katie/whomever a ride?" Hopefully those aren’t the same people judging, or Hunter/Isabella/Katie will find him- or herself walking.</insert></p>
<p>I guess I was a donkey parent. My D played club volleyball beginning at age 12 and varsity through high school. She was on a travel team for 1 year. It was a great respite from her high powered academic world. She is truly a student/athlete and smacking a vb around daily was a great outlet for her.</p>
<p>Maybe I was crazy but now that she is away in college, I miss the life, the other sports fanatic parents and the highs and lows of tournaments. She did not attempt to be a varsity athlete in college and didn’t make the club team either. She has widened her horizons and joined some other exciting clubs and groups on campus and then there is always intramurals.</p>
<p>I don’t know why people are so critical of parents who care about their children and their success. And I agree, those parents that are doing homework, science projects, etc are not producing elite children. I have seen this first hand. It becomes evident when these kids have to do stuff on their own like SAT’s, Subject Tests, tests in school, etc. </p>
<p>I helped my D with science projects and homework when she was younger. After about 6th grade, she was a self starter and I basically only provided support as needed (i.e. a ride to Michael’s for art supplies). Every kid is different I know, but you can be active in their lives without being a crutch.</p>