<p>don't flatter me. brown man ranks everything complete arbitrarily. He always posts how Berkeley should be a top 10 school and how great Cornell is...fyi he went to Cornell and Berkeley who knows? He is obsessed with anything other than objective measurements (admission rates, endowment, student faculty ratio, alumni giving...) According to him it doesn't matter? SO I wonder what does</p>
<p>Butchokoy summed it up pretty well for me.</p>
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<ol> <li>quality of instructions</li> <li>quality of materials used by the students and instructors</li> <li>quality of facilities of the universities</li> <li>quality of products (graduates)</li> <li>Research output</li> </ol>
<p>All these are essential to rate UNIVERSITITES. However, USNews thinks that universities are Liberal Arts Colleges. That’s stupid. Universities are not Liberal Arts Colleges. USNews staff are confused. It’s ridiculous.</p>
<p>Universities have also responsibilities to the society. They are not just established to educate the people but also made to conduct research that would enhance the general living conditions of the human race. Which institution do you think is supposedly responsible for that in not the universities?
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<p>Not that arbitrary, if you ask me.</p>
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<p>I wasn't flattering you. You can read post 300 again, it's not too flattering.</p>
<p>Proconsul did for me as well. Fyi I was being sarcastic.</p>
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This is why strength of student body, class sizes, financial resources per student, faculty resources, advising and alumni giving. These are the best data points available to measure undergraduate focus.
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<p>Counterexample:</p>
<p>Harvard has an incredibly strong student body, immense amount of resources per student, the best faculty resources in the world, and a high alumni giving rate. Many would say they have no undergraduate focus. Hence these characteristics don't necessarily measure undergraduate focus.</p>
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<p>How would you know that? Aren't you new to these forums?</p>
<p>Brown Man you always assume someone is EAD? I never saw you post so much on this forum till recently should I be throwing out names as well? Grow up. I think its fair to say that Penn and Duke are top 10 schools, I would say Wash U is a top 15 school.</p>
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<p>Having a number one program in any popular field such as business definitely boosts a school's reputation especially if the rest of its programs are not up to par with the business programs #1 status (Penn does have some good programs here and there though, such as BME, econ, history, polisci, urban studies, etc., but they're not Wharton level). Just my opinion, you're welcome to have yours.
It's a lot more than "some good programs here and there." You can also add to your list Art History, English, French, Linguistics, Music, Religion, Spanish, Neurosciences, Anthropology, and Psychology, in all of which Penn was ranked in the top 10 in the nation, not to mention several other departments in which it was ranked in the top 20. Penn's pretty strong across the board.</p>
<p>And while Wharton is widely considered to be the #1 undergraduate business program in the country, I've never seen anyone claim that Penn is #1. In the top 10, certainly, but many of Penn's liberal arts departments, admissions stats, etc. merit a top-10 ranking, so your claim that Wharton "boosts [Penn's] rep by miles" is clearly without merit.</p>
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It's a lot more than "some good programs here and there." You can also add to your list Art History, English, French, Linguistics, Music, Religion, Spanish, Neurosciences, Anthropology, and Psychology, in all of which Penn was ranked in the top 10 in the nation, not to mention several other departments in which it was ranked in the top 20. Penn's pretty strong across the board.</p>
<p>And while Wharton is widely considered to be the #1 undergraduate business program in the country, I've never seen anyone claim that Penn is #1. In the top 10, certainly, but many of Penn's liberal arts departments, admissions stats, etc. merit a top-10 ranking, so your claim that Wharton "boosts [Penn's] rep by miles" is clearly without merit.
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<p>You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. if you remove the "by miles" part from my claim, I definitely stand by my opinion. It must boost Penn since business is such a popular field and Wharton is just soooo good. The rest of Penn is good but definitely not up to Wharton level. Plenty of people claim on these forums that Penn is a top 5 school on these boards(just ask Bescraze)- if all its programs except Wharton are top 10 or 20, but not number one, how does Penn suddenly jump to a top 5 school on these forums? That is why I see it as overrated. It's still an awesome school though. Plenty of people have called HYP overrated. </p>
<p>We'll have to agree to disagree because you probably won't convince me otherwise. </p>
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<p>....This is coming from you?...</p>
<p>"I don't know much about WUSTL but Penn and Duke are definitely top 10 schools ANY way you look at it. They might even be top 5.</p>
<p>Both have incredible undergrad learning environments, strong student bodies, phenominal job placement that is on par with HYPSM, academic/professional prestige, unbelievable school pride, plethora of research/study abroad opportunities per students on a per capita basis WHILE AT THE SAME TIME being major research universities with strong grad programs all around from Nursing to Law."</p>
<p>You can substitute Duke and Penn with several other universities, including Brown (admittedly not great for graduate studies), Cal, Chicago (not the greatest undergraduate social environment), Columbia (see Chicago), Cornell, Dartmouth (see Brown), Johns Hopkins (see Chicago) and Michigan, Northwestern. So, that's at least 9 universities, plus Duke and Penn and the Big 5 (HYPSM) and Caltech and you have 17 universities. And I left our some REALLY worthy schools like Georgetown, Rice, UVa and Washington University to name a few. It is very difficult to filter out schools to come out with a definitive top 10 ranking. </p>
<p>In short, there is no such thing as 10 exact and spicific universities that make up the top 10. Even if you don't agree with some of those 20 odd schools listed above, the fact remains, well more than 10 universities can lay a legitimate claim at top 10 honors.</p>
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<p>Uhhh... Duke lacrosse definitely shows that you can hardly go a day without hearing something positive in the news in some form or another like you said. There was a lot of positive press that you mentioned in the last post. You don't contradict yourself at all, you're a logical genius haha. Reminds me of a chap by the name EAD.</p>
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Every other school you mentioned trails Penn and Duke in EVERY SINGLE MEASURE besides PA.
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<p>Wow that's quite a bold claim you make there... I would love to see data to prove us wrong though if you can compile it for the sake of debate. You have to go through every single school that was mentioned and show us that Duke beats it in every single measure besides PA. Masterful debater you are.</p>
<p>You could have just worded your argument as:" Those schools trail Penn and Duke in USNEWS rankings so Penn and Duke are top 10 schools." That's quite an elegant argument you got going there. Almost as elegant as Descartes' proof of the existence of the human mind.</p>
<p>I consider BU, GWU, U Maryland-CP, and U Minnesota-TC all underrated.</p>
<p>I find Dartmouth, Brown, Rice are pretty overrated, at least on these boards.</p>
<p>i think it's really funny how in the harvard v. berkeley thread everyone is underrating berkeley. and then over here everyone says uc's are overrated. it just doesn't make any sense why, if uc's are soooo overrated, they are also underrated when it comes to bs rankings like u.s. news.</p>
<p>and for all those who think i have a case of sour grapes about u.s. news, it really has nothing to do with u.s. news, it has to do more about this whole issue with rankings (berkeley has some pretty spiffy rankings in some cases)</p>
<p>underrated: uc davis (i'm sure there are a bunch of you who probably have never even heard of the place), uc san diego, rice, NYU</p>
<p>overrated: vanderbilt, upenn, ucla, harvard (to some extent), notre dame, WashU</p>
<p>Overrated: H Y P D ect...
Underrated: UNLV!</p>
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he rest of Penn is good but definitely not up to Wharton level. Plenty of people claim on these forums that Penn is a top 5 school on these boards(just ask Bescraze)-
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<p>I have never asserted this. You really need to learn to read, think and then write. In that order. I always have asserted that Penn is a top 10 school, whether or not its top 5 is heavily debatable and I would wager its probably not.</p>
<p>sorry proconsul did.</p>
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You really need to learn to read, think and then write.In that order.
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<p>Okay Bescraze! you need to learn to get into an Ivy/elite school and then talk. In that order.</p>
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Okay Bescraze! you need to learn to get into an Ivy/elite school and then talk. In that order.
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<p>Ahhh so you believe that where you attend college reflects on you as a person? You believe that the Ivy/elite schools are all that really matters. That is very sad, especially since you attended Cornell. I am very disappointed in you.</p>