<p>D (who has bf) was interested in HC until reading the handbook - - no male guests allowed on female corridors. Is this true?</p>
<p>D just finished freshman year at HC. Had a roommate with a BF that visited almost every weekend. There was never an issue made of this. The dorm floors are alternated male - female as far a housing assignments but visiting is NOT monitored. I witnessed this first hand.</p>
<p>Is this true for overnight guests (stated in heading, but in the post I just said "guests" and you responded "visitors")?</p>
<p>Or was boyfriend sleeping over not an issue b/c your D never made it an issue by complaining? (Which could be a problem w/ a less tolerant roommate.)</p>
<p>Yes, I meant overnight. My d was away alot due to travel for her sport. She was tolerant also, but that is her easy going nature. I am sure if she told her roommate that she did not like it that she would not have continued to do it.</p>
<p>I actually put the question to HC admissions - - no reply as yet. I don't know why a college would post such a rule and then not enforce it, or worse still have selective enforcement (ie - roommate complains to proctor).</p>
<p>I also find it troubling that the presence of such a rule in the handbook inaccurately portrays the campus culture go both students and parents.</p>
<p>I'd be interested in hearing the answer. Although I suspect it will be something along the lines of not possibly being able to police that many people at bed check. Much the same as alcohol on campus. All colleges state that drinking is not allowed by students under the legal age but often times they find it nearly impossible to control. If you have any other questions regarding freshman year at HC please let me know. My d was thoroughly enamored with her year at Holy Cross for many, many reasons.</p>
<p>send par72 a PM- s/he is the resident holy cross guru</p>
<p>Oldhat - </p>
<p>The response was as you predicted: the sch doesn't do bed checks, but the rule is enforced in someone complains and students (primarily girls), do in fact, lodge complaints. </p>
<p>This is unfortunate, especially since there's no "one free bite" for the offending student (first complaint could result in suspension), who, based on the handbook, is on notice that she is breaking one of the college's rules. It also places the offended roommate - - who based on the handbook would not expect overnight guests of the opposite sex - - in the unenviable position of living w/ an uncomfortable situation or blowing the whistle on the host roommate.</p>
<p>Also, it's not really like most college alcohol consumption, which usaully (though by no means always) occurs at big parties with like-minded revelers. Thus, the kids (like d, a h.s. junior) who do not drink, chose not to attend certain parties - - they don't go to those parties and call the dean. (Live and let live.) But it's another matter entirely if the offending conduct is brought into your room - - your sanctuary. And b/c the no-opposite-sex-overnight-guests is a rule/policy, there's no way to inquire or ascertain students' preferences as part of the roommate selection process.</p>
<p>I don't like the hypocricy of "don't ask, don't tell." But even more impotantly, I wouldn't want d entering a college INTENDING to break its rules.</p>
<p>And I hope HC is more serious and vigilant re: enforcing it's alcohol policy.</p>
<p>Dear NYC,</p>
<p>I do not believe that you will find any catholic or christian school will say that overnight guests of the opposite sex are incouraged. However, even in the case of same sex visitors, the comfort and approval of your roommate must be taken into consideration. I don't know what it is you seem to be looking for in a college. All college students must consider their roommate's rights as well as their own. If the college allowed overnight guests but the roommate objected,would that be fair? As far as drinking on campuses I can tell you that all schools try to police this, but most schools admit they cannot eliminate it. Your daughter might want to consider "single" housing and perhaps that would solve the problem.</p>
<p>Old Hat,
I completely agree with your response to nyc regarding overnight visitors and drinking at Holy Cross. Holy Cross is a Jesuit school and as such cannot, and does not, condone such activity. Nor for that matter does any university condone underage drinking. Does it happen? Probably but from what I've been told by my daughter who just completed her freshman year, drinking at Holy Cross is considerably less rampant than at some other schools her friends chose. Also, while housing is provided, these students are technically adults over the age of 18 and cannot be policed constantly. If one roomate becomes disruptive, or if an uncomfortable situation becomes intolerable to either roomate, their first course of action is to go to the RA who will handle it or seek guidance from someone higher up. I would suspect that most students would only do this in extreme cases. If that is the case, they are not usually concerned about "blowing the whistle." I'm not sure what point nyc was trying to make. From what I've observed, Holy Cross students are a dedicated, talented, intelligent group of kids, who generally hold themselves to a higher standard academically and morally, but let's face it they're not saints.</p>
<p>Rx,</p>
<p>Glad to hear that your D enjoyed HC as much as mine. It sure makes for a happy home knowing that your daughter is 3000 miles away and very content.</p>
<p>I don't think that any college "condones" bf overnights or underage drinking. But most non-religious schools treat them differently, w/ express policies against underage drinking, which is illegal, and no stated policy re: opposite sex (as opposed to other guests).</p>
<p>As for HC, I just don't understand why a school that feels strongly enough to expessly prohibit opposite sex visits would then a blind eye - - instead of just being silent on the matter. </p>
<p>Yes, one ought to be considerate of one's roommate. Yes, the students have reached the age of majority. But breaking a rule is usually treated more serious than roommate lifestyle disagreements.</p>
<p>For conduct w/i the res life guidlines, I'm certain that any school would either screen for compatability, as it would for any number of lifestyle issues (smoking, sleeping w/ window open or closed, etc.), or apply a reasonableness standard (mediate, search for middle ground). </p>
<p>For conduct that violates stated school policy,however, there can be no screening (no one asks, "do you intend to sell you adderall?"). Such conduct is per se unreasonable (no mediation, discussion of reasonableness or search for middle ground).</p>
<p>Thus, even though d and current roommate each found the other's early rising (roommate) and late-night studying (d) intolerable, they had to work it out. Neither girl was in viol of a rule, neither was objectively right or wrong, each had to compromise. This would not and should not have been result if one of them had complained of conduct that violate a school rule - - hitting, use of racial slurs, alcohol in the room or bf in the room; the offending student is plainly wrong and the offended student does not have to compromise.</p>
<p>At HC and schools w/ similar guests policies, the bf as overnight guest falls w/i the second scenario. Bf's presence wouldn't have to rise to level of "intolerable;" b/c of the stated guest policy, roommate could ban him just for taking up space. </p>
<p>Clearly, d does not share or meet HC's stated moral standard as it relates to the bf visiting. Indeed, the guest rule may signal that the campus culture is too parochial for her, in which case, better that she (we) investigate now rather than find out after she has enrolled. </p>
<p>I, however, will advise her against applying. While I do not expect d or students anywhere to be angels, d should be intend to abide by a school's rules, not count on violating them w/ impunity b/c of reportedly laxed enforcement (my moral standard).</p>
<p>NYC
I strongly feel you have chosen one point of contention in the rule book and have blown it out of proportion as a reason to not apply to the school. That is your choice to do so, however much I disagree. But you're closing argument disregards the most important issue in applying to colleges: the quality of the education one receives. Holy Cross students love their school, are not forced into "catholic" choices, and get an amazing education. I wish you and your child good luck. I hope you find what your seeking.</p>
<p>rxmom,</p>
<p>AMEN!!!!!!</p>
<p>Quality of education is certainly important, but there are a variety of other fators that not only come into play during the college selection process, but which may ultimately be dispositive. That I place a diff value on those factors doesn't mean that I am disregarding anything.</p>
<p>D, for example, will not consider schools unless they offer v'ball and track, sports for which she is likely to be recruited (D3 for v'ball, D1 for track - - though I'd prefer that she not run/jump at the D1 level b/c of the time commitment). We are also bypassing schools w/ less than 4-5% black enrollment. </p>
<p>Neither of these factors may be important for you and your ds, but they (like having bf visit) are important to my d. And ideed, most athletes consider the sports offerings to be a deal-breaker, just as URM students place a premium on a racially comfortable or hospitable enviornment (however the inividual defines those terms).</p>
<p>Then too, there's distance, size, location, gender parity (many girls bypass women's colleges in favor of lesser co-ed schools) and, of course, cost. Each factor individually may be a basis for a prospect not applying to or enrolling at a particular college. And each factor will figure differently into the calculus of an applicant's selection process.</p>
<p>I am happy the HC has worked out well for your ds, but students can, and do, receive amazing educations on any number of college campuses. Thus, a student would do well to consider the campus culture/values - - forced or not. </p>
<p>If your ds didn't have a bfs when they applied and didn't consider the rule, that fine. If you would have advised them to ignore the rule b/c it's not really enforced, that's fine too - - for you. </p>
<p>I, however, have told d she should not apply intending to break the guest or other rules (though I might not strike ND - - academ stronger, and farther from bf so less frequent visits, during which I'd advise her to have him stay w/ one of her male friends). </p>
<p>As you said, rxmom, d, like most kids is no angel. Might d have a beer at a party before she turns 21, of course. But, she shouldn't enter college not committed, determined or intending to drinking at the first oppty or at any particular time before she reaches the legal age.</p>
<p>Fortunately, D has already found a number schools that suit her, each offering a top-notch education, students who love their school - - and more. If she had fewer choices, I'd probably suggest that she compromise on any one of her criteria, but thankfully, that is not the case.</p>
<p>As for HC, we initially thought it might be a enought of a fit that she should visit and possibly apply. With this addit info, I don't think it's enough of a match for d. Again, glad it's working for you.</p>
<p>Now, somebody give me an "Amen."</p>
<p>NYC,</p>
<p>Just for the record my D is an athlete and does not feel the time commitment has hindered her in any way. In fact she feels it makes her more able to manage her time than someone with less to accomplish in a day. She has maintained a 3.3 GPA as a freshman and for those familiar with HC academics, this is no easy task.</p>
<p>In addition, her roommate is African-American and a recruited player in her sport. She also finds being an athlete a positive in keeping her focused.</p>
<p>You and your D have the right to choose a school for any reasons you feel important and I'm sure we all support your choice in that. All we are saying is that no school will offer you EVERYTHING you hope for. You just have to weigh the pros and cons of each.</p>
<p>This horse has been beat to death......If I were you I would move onto another school as you seem greatly agitated with HC.</p>
<p>I'll give you an AMEN!! because I can tell you really want to do what's best for your child. BUT...You keep mentioning INTENT. I honestly don't think most kids go into the college experience with the intent of breaking the rules- be it visiting BF's, drinking, or otherwise. At least not to a school at this level. Most of these kids were the followers of rules their whole lives with great work ethics and a healthy sense of right and wrong. They may be getting their first taste of independence and take it to the limit at first, but eventually the novelty wears off and they settle down. While your point is well taken that there are many factors that come into play when choosing a college, I don't think the moral behavior of other students should be one of them. If you prefer a more liberal atmosphere you should consider Vassar or Brown</p>
<p>oldhat,</p>
<p>I never questioned the value of athletics. And I am weighing the pros/cons, w/ HC, but I think d can get more of what she wants at another sch and I have advised her accordingly. </p>
<p>rxmom,</p>
<p>I speak of intent b/c d certainly intends to have bf visit knowing that his would be a viol of the overnight guest rule - - and especially if she hears that the rule isn't strictly enforced (which may be true, but I wouldn't want her to count on it).</p>
<p>As for the moral behavior, whether the school's rules are consist w/ your conduct/beliefs is an important factor. Moreover, my concern is not w/ other students' conduct, but that breaking the guest rule would subject d - - who follows rules and has a healthy sense of right/wrong - - to discipline. Since such rules are common among Cath schools, I am advising d to focus on more liberal, non-religious schools, if this remains important to her.</p>
<p>(FYI - For d and her boarding sch peers, college is not the first taste of independence. They already possess years personal experience w/ many res life issues and have a more defined sense than most 17-18 yr olds of what is important to them in a res community. I respect the fact that this is important to d, who already knows that travel to even a nearby campus is diff w/ her athletic obligations)</p>
<p>Finally, for the record, despite the fact that you both have chided me for "disregarding important factors," not once did I comment negatively on your choices. All I have said is that I am advising d to make a diff choice: d has serious bf who will probab be a frequent visitor, she should't attend sch that prohibs boys from staying overnight.</p>