Overpriced and Overrated

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
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<p>3Tops, as to your comment on Williams' weak alumni network: A friend of my family's attended Williams, currently lives in Hungary, and just came all the way back to the U.S. to go to his Williams reunion. On the other hand, my dad went to Harvard. He went to his 10-year reunion, thought it was a waste of time, and has never been back. He has absolutely no connections with Harvard; he gives them no money, sends them no personal news, and does not attend any events for alums. </p>

<p>Obviously, this is very situational evidence. I can't give you any stats on this stuff or anything, but it seems to me that the small LAC brand of community gives alums and students a kind of kinship with each other. If I was a Williams grad, I'm sure my family's friend would do quite a bit for me, whereas I know my dad would feel no special inclination towards me had I been straight out of Harvard. </p>

<p>There's no need to assume that size of alumni network and strength of alumni network are synonymous. </p>

<p>Oh, and "Williams provides an adequate academic education" that's not really valid because it insulates its students from growing up in the "real world"? Have you heard of Oxford-style tutorials they've instituted? Yeah, those are pretty adequate, all right. And sure, Williams is in the middle of nowhere, but couldn't you say the same thing for some schools you approve of--like Dartmouth, for instance?</p>

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<p>"It is precisely because Williams, despite its academic excellence and amazing track record of alumni success, is less widely known that it attracts more down to earth, grounded type of students." (Ephman, 8/27/08; 1:47 pm)</p>

<p>O.K keep telling yourself that.</p>

<p>"Also, hard to say someplace is "overpriced" when (a) over half the students receive financial aid and none of them are required to take out loans by Williams...listen to US News, Forbes, and the Wall Street Journal, which -- using varying criteria..." (Ephman, 8/27/08; 1:47 pm)</p>

<p>That's funny considering my sibling has to pay over 25K in a student loan.
Forbes using ratemyprofessors.com does not seem like a very sound criterion. Methodology</a> - Forbes.com</p>

<p>"Just in case anyone is still concerned about anything 3Tops has posted, I'd talk to one of the innumerable friendly, down to earth parents, alums and students who actually have some connection to the school, rather than a poster who has chosen to judge the school based on one speech, on a day the college was not even in session, delivered by someeone who neither attended nor worked at the college." (Ephman, 8/27/08; 1:47 pm)</p>

<p>You are incorrect. The speaker was an alumnus.</p>

<p>**BTW, not only did I graduate from an Ivy League institution, I also attended two other top 10 universities (not liberal arts colleges) for my Masters and Ph.D. So you don't need to speculate about the authenticity of my comments and declarations or where I matriculated. I simply am providing an opinion for those who may be interested. Like I said in my previous post “you should go visit the campus and set your own opinion”. I will no longer waste my time going back and forth on this topic as my opinion will not change. Clearly, I ruffled some feathers. If you are happy in choosing Williams, then good, be happy. My opinion was provided to those who are in the beginning stage of choosing a school and to those who would like to hear some honest criticism (instead of all the positivity that EVERY school tries to sell) which could serve as a catalyst to a clear, well-informed and deliberate decision.</p>

<p>Oh, and to Caleno…toxicology. Many medical schools don't only grant M.Ds., but also Ph.Ds and Sc.Ds.**</p>

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<p>
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I would never put much weight in the opinions of individuals on a blog especially that of individuals who have a personal interest or bias...

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<p>Well-spoken.</p>

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I would not doubt that Williams provides an adequate academic education.

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<p>Nor do I doubt that an Ivy League university would provide a passable education.</p>

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The number of disadvantaged minorities (e.g. Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans) was very limited

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<p>The number of disadvantaged minorities at all of the top national universities and LACs are markedly limited.</p>

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top 10% of a class of 500 is just not that impressive

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<p>Quality over quantity.</p>

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This kind of arrogance forms the backdrop of the Williams education

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<p>You have proven through your words and mentality that arrogance forms the fragile backbone of an Ivy League education.</p>

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But with only approximately 500 students graduating a year, there are just not that many alumni to form a powerful network.

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<p>The very need to depend on handouts and privileges is pitiful.</p>

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And quite frankly, if you walked down any street in the U.S. and asked them if they heard of Harvard University, probably the majority would say yes.

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<p>Are you asking drunken bums or teachers, professors, scholars, and even high school students?</p>

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Furthermore, I received my Ph.D. from the top institution in the nation for medicine according to U.S. News.

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<p>Your bulbous ego rests on a fad-mag?</p>

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So you don't need to speculate about the authenticity of my comments and declarations or where I matriculated.

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<p>It is right of you to hide the names of those universities that you had attended, for today shame has been brought upon them.</p>

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<p>The answer to Corbett's question is: True.</p>

<p>True</a> EphBlog</p>

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<p>I have posted a few things on CC about Williams because I have a child there and I believe it is a fabulous school. A couple of schools may be better, but in my opinion it is one of the top 10 schools in the country for most students, and for certain individuals it is the very best. If I could only make one more statement before I left this mortal coil it would be this...do not ever look at ephblog if you are trying to gain insights into the Williams experience. 95% of it's posts are from a group of less than 10 left wing extremists whose opinions and comments bear little or no resemblance to the school my child is attending. If you were to reflect upon the Williams they portray, you would never want your child to go there. It may well be an interesting blog for some, but it has little to do with the current Williams College.</p>

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<p>You sound very immature. T-shirts??
I have 2 children at Williams and they both turned down Ivies; (Harvard, Dartmouth) and either Pomona/UVA/or GWU.
And love it!</p>

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<p>anyone who turns down harvard for williams might be out of their right mind</p>

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<p>How judgmental. You don't even know arakel10's child. I know my son would have, and did turn down Brown (which I know isn't Harvard, but he probably would like it less than Harvard.) Everyone is very different.</p>

<p>A really amazing research university in a good sized city is heaven for some people, and Harvard certainly is amazing, and it is very exciting, and offers many opportunities. For others it would be overwhelming or too impersonal, competitive or a host of other things.</p>

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<p>I'm thinking about applying to Williams ED, and now I'm really confused whether it is the right school for me. Can anyone help me about the quality of the teaching and lessons, as well as the students - not just whether they are arrogant or not but other characteristics? thanks (: - are they prejudiced towards international students??</p>

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<p>
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Second, with only approximately 2000 students in a rural community, the matriculating students outgrow each other by their second year….quite like high school or prep school and the challenge is lost (top 10% of a class of 500 is just not that impressive).

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<p>The top 10% of Williams is going to be the same as the top 10% of similar level academic schools like Dartmouth and Brown; 1570-1600 SAT. That is unimpressive to you? As the former would be any less impressive than the latter two? Being in the Ivy League is about the level of sports competition, not the level of academics or student body quality.</p>

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Lastly, going back to the 2008 commencement, the speaker told the students that when you go to your first interview, you will most likely know more than the interviewer. This kind of arrogance forms the backdrop of the Williams education.

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<p>This is just as likely the case at Dartmouth and Brown; not to mention that the commencement speaker is unaffiliated with the school and could just as easily give this speech at another school. To attribute this to the attitude of the school seems too simplistic of anyone that attended a top college. The sophistication of your logic seems like a below average nine year old.</p>

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<p>To soonae:</p>

<p>Williams is an amazing school. Anyone who is accepted is incredibly lucky -- this goes for all top universities. </p>

<p>Williams is incredibly selective. International admissions is even harder. Note that Williams is a smaller school, and thus it is unable to accommodate as many international students as larger institutions. In total, Williams has 146 international students. There are 2,112 students in the school (so 8 percent are internationals). </p>

<p>It is a safer bet to apply to a larger, less selective university as an international applicant. Remember that there are thousands of American students who will be rejected from these top institutions; the international applicants have to work even harder to be noticed.</p>

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<p>Soonae: If you really like Williams apply ED. The worst that will happen is that you will not be accepted, in which case hopefully deferred to RD.</p>

<p>I would not let postings on a chat board deter you if you are truly interested in the school.</p>

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<p>I'll keep this short. It is apparent OP will not be swayed by any logic or reason.</p>

<p>My son is a Williams student. My daughter is an Amherst student.</p>

<p>I couldn't be happier with their choices (daughter turned down Ivy, son applied ED) or their experiences so far.</p>

<p>(I am a Yale M.D. grad, and former Yale faculty. My wife is a Yale Ph.D. I think I have a little bit of insight into this topic.)</p>

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<p>Is OP really trying to compare Williams Undergrad with Harvard Med School, a grad school? Now I'm not claiming to know much but I've heard Harvard Grad school is a completely different experience than Harvard undergrad, more so than other places. And I don't believe that Williams even has a grad program. So assuming all of this is close to or spot on with the truth, isn't this whole discussion rather arbitrary???</p>