<p>I think Williams College is an overpriced and overrated school that is just a continuation of prep-school for students who either could not get into Ivy League institutions or who just did not try (I think the former). I went to this past year's commencement and it was just pathetic. Commencement is supposed to be a time of celebration and thanks to the parents who paid the thousand of dollars over the years for really a glorified high school. Students were not even guaranteed tickets to the baccalaureate ceremony. So there were parents who had the watch the ceremony from a spillover room on a screen because they were not granted tickets for the space limited ceremony room. With only about 500 graduates each year and an extremely high alumni giving rate (according to U.S. News), you can not tell me that the school could not afford to erect a venue to house at a minimum 1000 parents! I did not even see any complimentary t-shirts or gifts for the parents. After paying close to 200K a year, I cant believe the school could not even give the parents a give to say, thanks. I am not even a parent, but rather a sibling. However, I attended this past commencement event and another parents weekend event; both of which I was not impressed. Perhaps, Im just a spoiled Ivy League graduate with very high expectations.</p>
<p>OK. You entitled to your opinion, but Williams is a low key place that is not about pomp and hoopla. Yes, those things you are talking about would be nice, and maybe your ivy did a nice job of providing them, but I would rather see the smile on my son's face and hear about what he's learning than watch a commencement or receive a few gifts I have no need for.</p>
<p>And oh, my son and many of his friends turned down ivies to attend Williams.</p>
<p>I have to agree that Williams has A LOT of prep school brats...it is nearly intolerable.</p>
<p>Oh, and Williams does have a large enough venue for everyone.</p>
<p>No school is perfect, but my S is a public school person and has really enjoyed his experience.</p>
<p>And dismissing people because of their background is another kind of snobbery.</p>
<p>Your comments are for lack of a better word...silly. To attempt to negate the 200 year history of the school, the contibutions and accomplishments of it's graduates and faculty, over some tirade regarding commencement tickets is pointless. US News seems to like it, for the endless year in a row but maybe they did not attend commencement. I graduated from 3 colleges and never when to any of the commencements, who cares what they say once you are gone. If you need somebody to tell you you accomplished something, then maybe you didn't.</p>
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Williams College is an overpriced and overrated school that is just a continuation of prep-school for students who either could not get into Ivy League institutions or who just did not try (I think the former)
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<p>From my experience, I have seen more accepted at Dartmouth and rejected at Williams than the other way around. Judging a school by how many giveaways there are at graduation seems unbecoming and very simple for an Ivy League graduate, even one from the four that have lower average SATs than Williams.</p>
<p>"After paying close to 200K a year, I can’t believe the school could not even give the parents a give to say, thanks."</p>
<p>Maybe this is the that new math they teach at your Ivy but it doesn't cost 200k a year to attend Williams.</p>
<p>okay, first i've got to say that calling williams "overpriced and overrated" is ridiculous. beyond that, is it really full of "prep school brats"? i've heard this is true but i wasn't sure whether or not to believe it... hearing it a second time is a little worrisome.</p>
<p>Just in case there are any worried parents of future graduates reading this, let me assure you that Williams puts on a great party for commencement. My son had no problems getting tickets for the Baccalaureate address. It's in a traditional setting so seating is limited, however.</p>
<p>There were tons of college sponsored and unofficial events over the three day period. We had a great time hanging out with our graduate and his friends and meeting his friends' families, many for the first time. What a wonderful group of kids.</p>
<p>There were hikes, lectures, lunches, concerts -- all kinds of events that showcased the variety of the Williams experience. My favorite, of course, was after dinner party at the art museum which featured the art department's work. There was food, drink and music, a starry sky and lots of good cheer.</p>
<p>I just wish we could do it again!</p>
<p>In answer to the prep school question: All East Coast private colleges recruit and admit heavily from elite prep schools. With current trends toward diversity of all sorts, the percentage of prep school kids has dropped, but there is no doubt that you would find a healthy number of prep school grads at AWS, HYPSM and well into the second tier of selectivity. Having said that you should remember that the prep schools themselves recruit diversity, so the old WASP stereotype is not necessarily valid any more, even and especially at the most selective preps.</p>
<p>The wording of the phrase should discredit it. Williams has a higher percentage of public school kids than many LAC's and a lower percentage than some schools.</p>
<p>I would not worry about this based the experience of my sons and his friends.</p>
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I am not even a parent, but rather a sibling.
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<p>Jealous.</p>
<p>Your Ivy League education had been overpriced and is overrated.</p>
<p>...troll?</p>
<p>(10char).</p>
<p>That, or the Ivy sib is jealous because the Williams sibling got a better education!</p>
<p>I've heard that the difference between the Ivy League and the LACs can be crystallized by two commencement traditions, at the two oldest schools in Massachusetts. </p>
<p>At Harvard commencement (so the story goes), the graduating students form lines, and applaud as the faculty marches between them.</p>
<p>At Williams commencement (so the story goes), the faculty form lines, and applaud as the graduating students march between them.</p>
<p>True?</p>
<p>While I can't speak to the Harvard commencement ceremony, I can say that the latter part about Williams is true. The faculty does indeed applaud the graduating students as they march between. I am usually a very non-emotional guy, but when we marched between the columns of applauding professors, it was a great moment. </p>
<p>To more directly address, the OP's comments, for one thing, I would say that it's absurd for anyone to judge the merits of a school based on its commencement ceremony alone. My apologies to the casual Ivy observer if the day wasn't filled with the sort of ritualized self-glorification you might encounter at an Ivy league school (although if you ask me, the Williams commencement was not wanting for this). And complaining because the school doesn't have a large enough venue for 1000+ parents (in addition to the graduating class and other family members) is just silly. Keep in mind the size of the school. Our performance venues are more or less adequate for the sorts of events that are held throughout the year, and to demand that the school have a huge venue just for one weekend out of the year is also silly.</p>
<p>Finally, I echo other posters above when I say that I really think the Williams educational experience speaks for itself. The teaching at Williams is unassailable, and the opportunities afforded to the student to forge individual relationships with professors are second to none. In fact, I can't think of a single friend who go to know his or her professors as well as I did, including the friends who went to Harvard, Brown, and Penn. Really, I often times compare my college experience with that of my twin brother, who attended Penn. His was vastly different, and in many ways, I think, inferior. He was constantly in gigantic lecture courses, forced to put up with tedious coursework a la high school, and rarely spoke to his professors directly. </p>
<p>In the end, a school's commencement ceremony counts for and tells little. Williams' reputation in the academic world, its selectivity, its teaching environment, its graduate/professional school placement, and its placement in the finance/consulting world are all top-notch, out-performing many of the Ivy league schools. Maybe you should have applied.</p>
<p>ok, it cost $190,120, approximately 10K shy of 200K. Get your facts <a href="http://www.williams.edu/Registrar/geninfo/expenses.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/Registrar/geninfo/expenses.html</a></p>
<p>Ohhhh, snap! He got you!</p>
<p>But seriously, is this the best you can do by way of rebuttal? By citing the total 4-year price tag? And perhaps you didn't notice that they were poking fun at the fact that you misspoke by saying you spent 200K per year...</p>
<p>Care to address the rest of your flawed argument?</p>
<p>“:) Junior Member”, you should go visit the campus and set your own opinion. I would never put much weight in the opinions of individuals on a blog especially that of individuals who have a personal interest or bias (e.g. parents of students at Williams, students, or even siblings). Yes, I am biased toward Ivy League universities and the education they provide. I would not doubt that Williams provides an adequate academic education. However, I believe that college is more than just about academics. It should be a transition into adulthood and one's college experience should mimic the "real world". In my opinion, Williams does not provide that because, for one, the school's demographics don't even mirror the U.S. population composition. The number of disadvantaged minorities (e.g. Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans) was very limited and I say this not only based on what I saw, but also on my conversation with students. Second, with only approximately 2000 students in a rural community, the matriculating students outgrow each other by their second year….quite like high school or prep school and the challenge is lost (top 10% of a class of 500 is just not that impressive). Lastly, going back to the 2008 commencement, the speaker told the students that when you go to your first interview, you will most likely know more than the interviewer. This kind of arrogance forms the backdrop of the Williams education. On both of my visits to the school, I saw a sea of students (some of which were very arrogant…for what, I don’t know why) that had no idea what the real world was all about or that just because they went to Williams did not mean they were going to automatically walk into their first job, medical school, law school, business school, etc. </p>
<p>One other thing you may want to consider “:) Junior Member” is the recognition of the school. I am glad that I did not attend Williams College for all of the reasons in my previous paragraph and more. Furthermore, I received my Ph.D. from the top institution in the nation for medicine according to U.S. News. The recognition of an institution’s excellence is to me extremely important, but so is the recognition of even its existence. Yes, Williams has a long history…blah, blah, blah (what school doesn’t?) and provided the nation with some stellar graduates (e.g. James Garfield). But with only approximately 500 students graduating a year, there are just not that many alumni to form a powerful network. And quite frankly, if you walked down any street in the U.S. and asked them if they heard of Harvard University, probably the majority would say yes. If you asked them if they heard of Williams College, I really doubt the probability of yes responses would be higher than 50%. People may not want to admit it, but where you go to school, its name and its recognized graduates does matters. One may think that is snobbery, but it’s the truth. Why do you think Barack Obama transferred to Columbia University and graduated from Harvard law?</p>
<p>^ Are you saying you have a Ph.D. in medicine from Harvard? Not an MD? If not, what was your Ph.D area of concentration? Curious what undergraduate Ivy experience you are comparing to Williams. I think post 12 was correct.</p>
<p>Based on his/her lack of understanding of higher education and general inability to reason, I'd say that there is about a 95 percent chance that 3Tops did not actually attend an ivy league institution but rather bears some grudge against Williams for unknown reasons. On the five percent change 3Tops did attent an ivy league school, these posts don't exactly reflect well upon the education received.</p>
<p>Considering that Williams enrolls a similar percentage of "disadvantaged" minority students as essentially all the Ivies (10 percent black, 10 percent latino -- I assume you aren't speaking of asian students), that argument holds no weight. Likewise, your argument contradicts itself -- you claim that Williams and its students are arrogant, yet you seem to need to be congratulated walking down the street because of the institution you purportedly attended (something that as you yourself note doesn't happen to Williams kids). If Williams kids were truly arrogant, they could have just gone to an Ivy league school so that a higher percentage of the "man on the street" would be impressed by their pedigree. It is precisely because Williams, despite its academic excellence and amazing track record of alumni success, is less widely known that it attracts more down to earth, grounded type of students. </p>
<p>The commentary by a commencement speaker, who had no affiliation with Williams, is of course wholly irrelevant to institutional character -- the facially obvious flaws in your assessment of Williams based on a single speaker from elsewhere is indicia enough of the lack of reasoning skills you developed, wherever you actually attended college. </p>
<p>Also, hard to say someplace is "overpriced" when (a) over half the students receive financial aid and none of them are required to take out loans by Williams and (b) even those who pay full price are subsidized around 50k a year by the school's endowment. I guess we can all listen to you, in your infinite wisdom based on a few hours on campus, or listen to US News, Forbes, and the Wall Street Journal, which -- using varying criteria -- rank Williams first among liberal arts schools, and in the top five of all US colleges and universities, respectively.</p>
<p>Just in case anyone is still concerned about anything 3Tops has posted, I'd talk to one of the innumerable friendly, down to earth parents, alums and students who actually have some connection to the school, rather than a poster who has chosen to judge the school based on one speech, on a day the college was not even in session, delivered by someeone who neither attended nor worked at the college. </p>
<p>You may indeed be glad you did not attend Williams, and good for you. I am sure the feeling is mutual.</p>