Parchment College Ranking 2012 and Cornell...very disappointing

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I'm a rising senior, who is very interested in applying Cornell next year.
And I'm looking through the lists of college ranking from various sources, in order to match up with my true interests. From what I have observed in CC forums, I realized that Cornell's ranking in US News underestimates Cornell's true academic reputation, as US News ranking takes account the freshman admission rate/selectivity or peer evaluation.</p>

<p>This new 2012 ranking done by Parchment places Cornell on 16th, lower than any other ivy-leagues or peer-schools like Duke and UChicago.</p>

<p>Parchment</a> College Rankings 2012 | Parchment - College admissions predictions.</p>

<p>The Parchment Ranking methodology is, according to the website, based on the preferences of the enrolling students. When students apply to multiple colleges, they must choose one of them eventually, and Parchment gives score to the colleges that are chosen (preferred) by the students. And, there's more specific explanation as to how they score each school, which sounds very compelling, as Parchment adopts a certain formula that takes account the "expectation" of general students. For example, Cornell will receive more points if a student chooses Cornell over Brown than if a student chooses Cornell over Purdue.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, Cornell's ranking-16th is very disappointing. I've always believed that the number, including selectivity and median SAT score, means nothing in measuring the overall academic prestige of a college. But, why would enrolling students generally choose the other peer or ivy league schools instead of Cornell? If what we say in CC, like the one about Cornell's scientific/engineering department being the high-tier of ivy league, is true, why would Cornell be still turned down by most of students, who receive admission to another top universities? From this ranking, I cannot help but to speculate that Cornell has some negative issues (or perhaps, what the "trolls" in CC we disparage say is true to a certain extent).</p>

<p>I loved Cornell when I visited, and I have lots of friends and relatives who went to Cornell. But, the Parchment Ranking, which signifies that Cornell is very unpopular among the qualified students, is very mind-boggling, and making me have a second thought on applying to Cornell. I definitely want to persuade myself that ranking means nothing, but this specific ranking seems to be very evident that Cornell's not being chosen for some unstated reasons.</p>

<p>What do you guys think? I hope I'm definitely hoping that I misconstrued what this Parchment Ranking truly means.</p>

2

<p>Applicants aren’t a monolith. In some parts of the country, a local school might have more of a name than some Ivy schools. And then you have people that apply to a school because of the quality of a certain programs. And then you still have people that apply to a top school for the hell of it, even if they have no shot of getting in. Cornell may not have the most prominent name compared to some of its peers (at least in the US), but it’s a well-respected school with top programs. Neither rankings nor the perceptions of certain students can change that.</p>

3

<p>My guess is that Cornell’s location (rural) & climate have alot to do with it. The majority of students accepted at these schools are from urban / suburban areas that receive significantly less snow than Cornell does. When push comes to shove most people will gravitate to what they are more comfortable with.</p>

4

<p>Parchment is dumb. It claims that Duke has a 73-27 crossadmit rate with Cornell, something which is patently false.</p>

5

<p>I just realized Parchment provides crossadmit rate… and yes, it is actually 80-20 between Duke and Cornell. I assume the rate drastically changed from 2006, when the crossadmit rate was 54 to 46 (yeah… Cornell had higher yield rate). So, Sangus, do you think Parchment methodology is erroneous? It’s very hard to believe that the rate changed this much in only 6 years, but the explanation Parchment provides in regards to its methodology sounds not very unconvincing…</p>

<p>But, I sort of agree with you that it is “patently false”: while Cornell has 52-48 crossadmit rate to UChicago, Cornell gets only 20 to Duke… And UChicago yet has 41 to Duke… Doesn’t make sense to me either…</p>

6

<p>I am very aware that I am not admitted, and Cornell is a very hard school to get in. But, I planned apply Cornell ED, and I just wanted to fully understand beforehand the reason why several rankings place Cornell in a very low-tier level among all the top US universities. I do not mean to be derogatory to Cornell or ‘■■■■■’ like a bunch of senseless people do. I actually love Cornell and I’ve been thinking of applying ED.</p>

<p>The Parchment ranking, which unfortunately ranks Cornell below any other top universities, seems to be objective in demonstrating general students’ preferences. US News Ranking can be very inaccurate due to its arguable methodologies like peer evaluation. Parchment, though, provided the ranking, purely based on preferences of actual enrolling students, and I wanted to understand why would students generally favor other top universities, despite Cornell’s ivyleague title and its indisputable academic excellence.</p>

7

<p>The ranking of the school overall doesn’t really matter. What matters is how the school is ranked in your field. What do you plan to study, because that is much more important than some general ranking. Also, 16th out thousands of universities isn’t really that bad. lol</p>

8

<p>I don’t know if I would agree with you that Cornell ranks “below any other top universities.” I just quickly glanced through the rankings and Cornell ranks above UVA, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Northwestern, and WashU, all world class schools. I think Cornell’s ranking is perfectly respectable and I don’t quite understand why you’re so upset that its Parchment ranking is one place lower than is USNews ranking. Cornell is a phenomenal institution and if one silly ranking is enough to deter you from applying then maybe you’re better off not applying ED and waiting to apply RD. Just my 50 cents.</p>

9

<p>Cornell is a good school, everyone knows this. Not a soul alive will think less of a person because they attended Cornell as opposed to whatever is 15th on Parchments rankings. As far as rankings go, anything other than tiers gets quite arbitrary quite quickly, not to imply tiers aren’t arbitrary</p>

10

<p>First off, why the hell do you care?</p>

<p>Cornell is the largest school of the top 16. Being a large school (combined with the fact that relatively less kids apply due to its name recognition compared to Harvard), admission rates are inflated. Kids like to go to schools with the lowest acceptance rate because most see it as a sign of an elite school. Don’t worry about admission rates and just look at the programs each school offers and choose the best one. Nobody’s gonna denounce what you’ve done in college just because your school was ranked 16th on some nothing list. And if they do, laugh in their face.</p>

11

<p>this is silly. rankings in the top 25 or even top 50 of schools don’t really matter. at that point what matters is personal preference and fit, not picking a school that’s ranked 12th instead of 16th. the differences in terms of academic quality of education are miniscule–the real difference is in terms of location, specific majors/departments, atmosphere, size, etc. you’re decision on where to go to school should NOT be based on rankings. </p>

<p>that being said i can think of several reasons why people might choose other schools over Cornell. </p>

<p>the most ironic would be the ranking itself—do you see how this is a stupidly self perpetuating cycle? some people will choose other schools over Cornell because they look at things like this “Parchment College Ranking” and it says that those other schools are better. this would then lower Cornell’s “ranking” in terms of “student preference” even more, and the cycle would continue…</p>

<p>but otherwise, there are a LOT of factors that go into choosing the right college for you—size, location, focus, etc. and while I think Cornell is great, that doesn’t mean its for everyone. i.e. if I was super into theater Cornell probably wouldn’t be the best place for me, considering the ridiculous cuts they’ve made recently; and if I lived in a rural area all my life and hated it and wanted to live in a city, I probably wouldn’t pick Cornell. </p>

<p>in the end you have to make the decision yourself. not based on rankings, but on what is best for you, your happiness, and your goals.</p>

12

<p>Because, as we all know, Parchment gets the last word on everything.</p>

<p>Honestly, I have never heard of that site until staying on CC for half a year. And honestly, I could care less about what that site says, or how you personally chose to interpret it and ■■■■■ this board. I’m sorry for you but if you’re this disappointed by something so trivial and something you so obviously sought out for yourself just for sharing purposes, there’s nothing I can do for you.</p>

<p>Speaking personally, as a current Cornellian, I’m very happy with where I stand right now, in terms of what I learned and how my future prospects look. I came personally to Cornell for a good time and an amazing education and I got it.</p>

<p>About cornell as a school:
Cornell’s strength as a school holds:
Undergrad:
Engineering of all types
Computer sciences
Nutritional sciences
Art and architecture
Business
History
Traditional hard sciences
Psycology
Math
Hotel Administration</p>

<p>Grad school:
Those mentioned above +
Vet
Med
Law </p>

<p>Cornell is strong across many departments, and has the size to support so many departments and facilities for the staff and students.</p>

<p>In addition, with the size of Cornell and the number of amazing staff that we have there are many on campus opportunities to get in touch with professors + grad students (friendly and helpful), research, build connections, and many off campus opportunities around the globe due to Cornell’s global reputation (particularly strong in asia). There are other reasons to love Cornell as well. The area (there is so much to do if you’re in tune with nature and the outdoors, and it’s a place where you can definitely relax), the food, the social scene… you name it. The future looks bright for Cornell too, with its development in NYC (New tech campus), supported by philanthropist billionaire Feeney who showed his love for alma mater saying that he could never do for Cornell what Cornell did for him or something along the lines.</p>

<p>Alamode is wrong in that there’s no distinction between top 50. There is definitely a significant difference between say Harvard and Penn state. Rankings do matter. However, you really have to look holistically for rankings. Not just rankings from one site, but across sites with established reputations, and rankings within specific departments that you care about majoring in (this one considers several sites, found by searching ivy league rankings. [Ivy</a> League Universities / Schools Ranking - US College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html]Ivy”>http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html) ; also consider looking at established rankings sites such as :
times higher ed
ARWU shanghai rankings
QT
and such along with USNEWS but you don’t need me to tell you this one right?) He’s right though, in that other things do matter. How much you are going to enjoy your time at a school and how successful you think you’ll be from are a very, very important factors to consider. Money is also another important factor. Remember, if you are truly a senior high student, you really need to consider more than just one thing to make a smart choice in your life because college is a big deal.</p>

<p>All things considered, Cornell is amazing across many departments, gives its students and amazing time, has amazing facilities and opportunities, and gives amazing aid. I’d agree that Harvard would probably top Cornell in several factors, with Cornell possibility winning in specific departments in science/engineering, business, or its niche majors. I would agree that I would have taken Harvard over Cornell otherwise. However, nobody here who has been to Cornell and truly known what it is like to be in college and to mature is butt hurt - which you are attempting to make us seem like from your devious post, it seems.</p>

13

<p>No one uses Parchment, but #16 is not far off from #15 on US News Ranking. You may not like the methodology of US News Ranking, but that’s probably the most widely used ranking. If one starts digging for random rankings, one would come across useless rankings like forbes…(Havard is #6 and Cornell #51 LOL)</p>

<p>In any case, Cornell is wayy larger than it’s peer institutions, so they HAVE to admit more students to fill up all the available spots. They just cannot afford to cut down on the student body to lower their acceptance rate. Maybe if Cornell were like WashU, it would work more towards playing around with applicants to improves it’s ranking, but thankfully it has better things to worry about!
Also, like others have mentioned, Cornell’s location and weather are not ideal for many students. I love Ithaca, but I can see why many would not…that’s what happens when you build universities on a hill in the middle of nowhere <em>cough Ezra</em></p>

<p>Best of luck applying and getting in!</p>

14

<p>^To add to that
[Academic</a> Ranking of World Universities - 2011| Top 500 universities | Shanghai Ranking - 2011 | World University Ranking - 2011](<a href=“http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2011.html]Academic”>http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2011.html) - 13 worldwide
[Ivy</a> League Universities / Schools Ranking - US College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html]Ivy”>http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html) 6th ivy
[America’s</a> Best Colleges List - Forbes](<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/]America’s”>Forbes America’s Top Colleges List 2022) 51st (ironically still ahead of Penn, 52nd lol… the site is very obviously biased against big colleges)
[Top</a> 400 - The Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2011-2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html]Top”>World University Rankings 2011-12 | Times Higher Education (THE))
<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/[/url]”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/&lt;/a&gt;
[Top</a> Universities by Reputation 2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/reputation-rankings.html]Top”>World Reputation Rankings 2012 | Times Higher Education (THE))</p>

<p>Specifically found for people who do care about rankings… here’s all of them aside from USNews that I really don’t need to link.</p>

15

<p>^ I lovin’ the #6 Ivy…as long as we beat Brown, no other ranking matters :smiley:
Forbes ranking just makes me laugh. I guess it needs to stop ranking schools and get back to rankin’ rich people!</p>

16

<p>^
Heh, Princeton is the only absolutely consistent one, it seems…</p>

<p>OP, I don’t know why Parchment now shows a 20-80 crossadmit rate with Duke, but it isn’t accurate. That site draws only from the information submitted from its users, and how exactly they produce those numbers is questionable at best. Even by using the Transitive Property, one can easily see flaws.</p>

17

<p>I haven’t checked the site, but it’s likely that their cross admit rates are generated from their predetermined rankings. Since it’s all based on the integers, they make the supposed calculation pretty straightforward. Also, what students should care about isn’t cross admit rate (seriously, this isn’t even something you should hear about as a high school student… only on cc…) but rather should care about the other things I mentioned. Quality of school overall, quality of a program, personal tastes, money, location/surroundings, quality of life, on/off campus opportunities… those are the things that matter in college and in your life.
Each school has its own strengths, weaknesses, and peculiarities - get to know them before you make judgement calls. A visit can do a lot of good for students.</p>

18

<p>I don’t think they’re pre-determined by rankings, as Cornell still wins 52-48 against Northwestern on Parchment. Really, OP, I don’t know-- You’ll have to ask on their forums-- But they aren’t accurate.</p>

<p>Furthermore, for something like science or history, is there really going to be any difference at the undergraduate level at ANY top school? It’s not like the information changes. I’d say the same even for Economics. Not so sure about more subjective things like Political Science and some of the social sciences/humanities.</p>

<p>Colene, besides connections, why would you take Harvard over Cornell, as a current Cornell student? Are the connections really that useful? Isn’t a banking job a banking job no matter which school you went to?</p>

19

<p>Again, I do not mean to offend any Cornellians… I truly love Cornell, and I am just feeling insecure nowadays as my senior year is coming up… I’m very sorry if I sounded trolling or whatever.</p>

<p>The reason why I said “disappointing” is not because I’m wholly swayed by this trivial ranking from a relatively unknown source, but because Parchment ranking is based on the enrolling students’ preferences and apparently Cornell’s not generally preferred by students (in comparison to another top-tier universities), at least according to Parchment. I thought the preferences are very straightforward sum-up of a school’s overall pros and cons; enrolling students prefer A university to B university after comparing their respective pros and cons.</p>

<p>But, I will listen to Colene, and will try to focus more on why I love Cornell, instead of why some other do not prefer Cornell. Thank you very much for sharing your insight.</p>

<p>Anyways, I agree with Sangus that the cross admit rate is not predetermined by the ranking, and the ranking is very inaccurate. Whereas Johns Hopkins is placed above Cornell (#12), 63% students will choose Cornell instead of Johns Hopkins (same with UChicago… Cornell wins against UChicago, although UChicago is slightly higher in ranking)</p>

20

<p>Unless I’m missing something, the data itself suffers from HUGE self-selection bias. I never even heard of Parchment before this post. 120,000 data points may seem like a lot, but considering Cornell alone receives over 30k applications, and THEN trying to look at ALL colleges, 120,000 data points really isn’t sufficient to make good estimates for cross-admit data, especially when you figure the sample isn’t a random sample, but people who happened to stumble across the Parchment website (and likely on average more motivated students since they are searching the internets more). I only spent 2 mins on the site, but is the 120,000 data points from a single year, or for all years? If so, that reduces the validity even more. I have no idea what an appropriate RANDOM sample size would be for a project like this (nor do I care to put effort into figuring it out), but my sense is it must be more than 120,000.</p>

<p>As for more of the substance of the post, there are MANY reasons to choose one college over another. You have to figure out what’s important to you, not other people. Here’s my short list:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Academics - Especially at the undergrad level, you’re not going to see any significant differences, especially at top schools. Where it can significantly differ are things like opportunities for research or variety/number of courses offered. In that respect, Cornell does VERY well compared to its peers.</p></li>
<li><p>Extra-curricular activities - Cornell has a vibrant Greek community and over 900 student organizations. Tough to beat.</p></li>
<li><p>Ithaca/small city environment - This distinguishes Cornell from some of the other top schools. This is really personal preference. If you’re a city person, Ithaca is not really for you. If you like the outdoors, Cornell is fantastic. </p></li>
<li><p>Perceived stress/workload - By reputation, Cornell is a rigorous school. Anecdotally, I have friends who transferred from other good schools and they said the workload at Cornell was significantly greater. This can be a plus or minus. Personally, I appreciate the rigor/challenge Cornell presents. If you can distinguish between “good stress” and “bad stress” and derive good stress from challenging academics, I think you will thrive more at Cornell than at other universities. However, if you are easily frustrated when things aren’t going your way academically, Cornell may not be the ideal environment.</p></li>
<li><p>People - I tend to think your college experience is defined by the people you meet. There is no meaningful way to determine who you will meet with/click with at any college. Just put yourself in a position to meet good people and any college you choose will offer a good experience.</p></li>
</ol>