<p>Who cares. Will you really let a certain college ranking affect whether you apply ED or not to Cornell? All that matters is what YOU think of Cornell and how YOU think Cornell will give you a great social and academic experience. And Cornell has wholly different schools too. Parchment looks at Cornell as a whole. I am studying engineering and there are very very few schools in the country I would consider attending over the college of engineering.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t the cross-admit results be greatly affected by financial aid offers and net costs? Given equal costs, I would think that a completely different set of numbers would be generated. So if student X, because of financial aid, would have the same net costs for schools C1 and C2, while C1 on average gives better financial aid and has lower net cost, then why would X be swayed by data which indicates most cross admits prefer C1? Apparently in relation to that, Cornell initiated a financial aid program that will allow the FA office to try to match offers from other Ivy schools, Stanford, MIT, and Duke. I will be interested to see how it affects the cross-admit data.</p>
<p>^^
Wait, your posts are confusing me. Are you attending RPI or Cornell?</p>
<p>Not only is that NOT AT ALL what you want to worry about when applying for colleges, but that site is honestly a total joke. It uses an ELO rating system (much like, in fact exactly the same method that FIDE/USChess rate chess players), and colleges are not people playing essentially a zero-sum game, these grades are absolutely absurd. ELO is normally awarded when two people participate in a game, one wins, one loses, and ELO is awarded/taken away by the same number. When you compare colleges, this is a totally different story. They’re comparing 1 school to 1 school to 1 school for some ridiculous reason, and the ratings are just totally garbage. I could go on, but that’s not really the point whatsoever. </p>
<p>Go to a school not based on its ranking, go because you like the environment and the people. Of course the academics are VERY important, but if you’re going to doubt them at Cornell of all places, I would reconsider then, but I don’t believe you would think that. </p>
<p>Cornell is a great place, I fell in love when I visited, and threw all the rankings aside, I’d suggest you disregard these rankings (Parchment specifically), all they do is stir up trouble in my opinion.</p>
<p>While I overall agree that rankings for undergrad have little relevant implications in the long run (e.g. Berkeley not being top 20 when it dominates all graduate fields in the top 10 or top 5) I would say that ranking is probably pretty consistent in terms of placement. </p>
<p>Additionally, what are you even trying to get out of undergrad? While some people here vehemently defend Cornell (because of so-called “fit”), rationally speaking it still does not compare with many of the top 10 in this ranking because in the end Cornell does not have as much money. Yes, if you happen to really want to study horticulture or something obscure that only Cornell offers or excels at (or something like architecture), comparing these rankings have moot point. However, when comparing where students end up I do not think anyone argues that there is still a difference when you say you went to HYPS than if you went to Cornell. Though I would say maybe the top 8-20 or so can shuffle without any distinct differences, the fact is that Cornell is not a top 8 institution overall. This is something everyone applying to Cornell should know and many self-justification posts on cc will claim otherwise, however I’d wager that many students at Cornell (and this board as well) would say that Cornell was and is not their top choice and most of this talk about how Cornell is a fit for them now is just retrospective rationalization.</p>
<p>This brings us back to the point that this is fundamentally related to what are you trying to get out of undergrad. The time that rankings MAY really play more a role is with pre-professional oriented students and because of ranking and size of the school (I guess those two are related, as well) Cornell would not be a good place to be a pre-professional. I would say that Cornell is much more a research oriented university (even compared to the rest of the Ivy League save Harvard) and overall if you are looking into graduate school, Cornell does have more of an advantage over most other Ivies.</p>
<p>^ Cornell had the alumni depth to plunk down over 300 million dollars in cash to help win them the NYC Tech competition over Stanford last year – that donation being just 15 percent of what is being budgeted for the project. This came from an alum of one of the “specialty schools,” thank you very much Chuck Feeney. If you think that Cornell can’t compete with the big boys, when they choose to, then you are clearly mistaken.</p>
<p>[List</a> of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment]List”>List of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Uh, yeah okay. Let’s be real: [How</a> Cornell Beat Stanford (And Everybody Else) For NYC Tech Campus | Epicenter | Wired.com](<a href=“http://www.wired.com/business/2011/12/how-cornell-beat-everybody-nyc/]How”>How Cornell Beat Stanford (And Everybody Else) for NYC Tech Campus | WIRED)</p>
<p>Do you really think Stanford brought in the big guns for the NYC tech campus? Stanford, The richest school on the west coast. That basically has part in half of silicon valley. Okay. This is what I mean by retrospective justification of how good Cornell is. Is Cornell a great school? No doubt, but let’s not say it’s just-as-good as HYPS. Because in the end, Cornell does not have that kind of money.</p>
<p>Let’s be real.</p>
<p>This is from the Wall Street Journal just days after the NYCTech Campus competition was won by Cornell.</p>
<p>
[Cornell</a> Wins Contest For NYCTech Campus](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204879004577107190097493490.html][b]Cornell”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204879004577107190097493490.html)</p>
<p>Stanford fought hard for the NYC Tech Campus until late in the 11th hour when they learned behind-the-scenes that they had lost – which surprised them quite a bit.</p>
<p>You also do realize that the listed endowment is meant for the endowed colleges within Cornell, 4/7 colleges - the contract colleges get funding from NYS, so there’s a bigger number for Cornell to access that is enumerated.</p>
<p>Yeah, I’d agree Cornell’s endowments aren’t as big as HYP’s, but Cornell also spends a LOT every year on the insane amount of construction and expansion, and if you have visited Cornell, it really isn’t doing bad AT ALL. Also realize that endowment is never directly spent on any student, nor spent in very specific ways for the public to see at all other than these visible indications. Other schools may horde it, but Cornell spends it, as you can especially see with the general financial aid that it gives and all the other projects that are going on on campus and off campus (tech)</p>
<p>Colene, how do you know it’s never spent on an individual student? The biggest talking point for Princeton is having 2.2 million dollars per student per year, a return of $44,000 extra to spend per student.</p>
<p>They filed some legal statement that they spend 5% of their endowment per year, so they must be spending it on something.</p>
<p>Lollerpants, with the 175 million per year we receive for being a land-grant institution (possibly going to be slashed a bit), our endowment actually is really more the equivalent of 8.5-9.0 billion dollars, so basically Columbia level overall and per capita.</p>
<p>That said, I wonder why Stanford didn’t just take 500 million out of their endowment and outbid us for the NYC tech campus. It wouldn’t have made much of a dent in their endowment.</p>
<p>I’m still standing by the fact that it just does not make sense for Stanford to have gotten the tech campus in the first place, considering it’s right next to Weill and Stanford being there would have been the most out of place thing as they are completed rooted in the Bay Area. As for the endowment point, I’m not really comparing Cornell with Columbia, or Brown, or Rice, etc. I’m purely saying it’s no HYPS in terms of the money it has.</p>
<p>No where am I saying Cornell isn’t a great school, however far too often on this board I see people defending Cornell beyond what is reasonable. All I’m saying is that while I don’t agree with the numerical exact value of rankings, I do not believe that Cornell is on par with HYPS which some times people on this board think to think it is. While Cornell IS better at some things than HYPS by a fair margin, the AVERAGE student coming out of HYPS is in better standing at a pre-professional job than one is at Cornell, and typically those are the students that care the most about rankings in the first place.</p>
<p>I’ve already graduated from Cornell, so I know exactly what the condition Cornell is in, in terms of money and construction and all that jazz. I also know that the majority of people I met Cornell was not their first choice but they try to retrospectively justify how Cornell is the best because they are making the best of their situation. All I want to point out is how it should not blind you from the disadvantages at Cornell, which I’m surprised so many people here are quick to defend when I’m rather certain the majority of people here have not been a student there as long as I have.</p>
<p>My older daughter did not consider Cornell as her first choice, but did end up going there. My younger daughter had Yale, Brown and Cornell as her top 3. She graduated as the Sal with a lot of good ECs. All Ivies accepted 1-2 students from her school every year because of the location and an international school, so she was definitely a viable candidate. </p>
<p>My kid visited Yale, Brown and Williams in Sep of her senior year for the last look before she made up her mind to apply to Cornell ED. She didn’t do that because she was afraid she couldn’t get into those schools. She chose Cornell because of the “fit” and because of her older sister and friends experience there. </p>
<p>Cornell admits ~40% of its students through ED, so at least for 1200 students, it’s their first choice.</p>
<p>I concur with Oldfort…my D’s “dream school” was Cornell, applied ED & felt very fortunate to be accepted. Many of her friends at Cornell appear to have been accepted (self reported of course) at many higher ranked schools but chose Cornell. From what my D reports, students she encounters do not sit around and loathe the fact that they have been resigned to attend Cornell.</p>
<p>Lollerpants, so doyou think Cornell is on par with the rest of ivys and schools like duke/uchicago, in terms of endowment, job placement, academic reputation?</p>
<p>And I don’t think barely anyone implies that Cornell supercedes HYPSM in overall quality; we rather emphasize that, as one of the largest top private institutions, Cornell has some definite strengths and uniqueness that are comparable to those of HYPSM</p>
<p>I do think that Cornell is on par with many other schools that are higher than it in ranking, and while it is true that it has definite strengths and uniquenesses, the fact is that Cornell for the average student is not the definite best at anything.</p>
<p>As for not encountering people who loathe about being resigned to Cornell… if you were pre-med and most likely Asian (which is a good portion of pre-med and CAS in Cornell), you’d know what I’m talking about. Actually even in sciences in general, I’d say it’s rather prevalent, not as much so in engineering.</p>
<p>I think once you get into any college, your attitude determines how you feel. My 17 year old self would have loved to have gone to Harvard or Columbia. My 23 year old self can’t imagine having done undergrad any other way than the Cornell way. </p>
<p>Sports analogies work and since I’m a tennis fan, I’ll go with that. Tennis rankings reward consistent performance. Most times the #1 player is the favorite to win a major. But anyone in the top 20 has a good chance of winning. The rankings reward consistent performers. So while on average, #1 has the best chance of winning, most majors aren’t won by the person with the #1 seed. For example, Nadal was seeded #2 at the French Open, but was the favorite because on a clay court, he’s got the edge over Djokovic. Do #16 seeds win majors consistently? No, but you often see them making it deep into tournaments and playing really close with the top seeds. </p>
<p>Is Cornell on average better than HYP? No, but you’re not at all that much of a disadvantage and if you make the best of your college experience, you’ll get what you need and more from your college experience. But you know what? If you weren’t #1 in your class with top SAT scores, but rather #5 in your class with near-top SAT scores, Cornell might be better for YOU than Harvard. And there is no guarantee which school will have the better professors for the classes you will want to take unless you pre-select all 4 years worth of classes at all schools you are considering and research the teaching quality of the professors, keeping in mind that teaching quality and academic reputation are NOT the same. Yeah, sometimes Nobel prize winners are great professors, but that’s never a guarantee. More often than not the “big names” will not be your most memorable professors. Yeah, if you want the absolute best networking opportunities, Cornell doesn’t beat Harvard. But it comes close…</p>
<p>PS. If I was more into basketball, a NCAA March Madness metaphor would have worked.</p>
<p>“Colene, how do you know it’s never spent on an individual student? The biggest talking point for Princeton is having 2.2 million dollars per student per year, a return of $44,000 extra to spend per student.”
Name one student that Cornell has spent its endowment on in the last 10 years other than through financial aid and legitimate programs like Tanner Dean’s.</p>
<p>Note I never said Cornell has more of an endowment or ANYTHING of the sort than HYPS’s, but I’m saying it’s not bad at all and it’s significantly higher than the ones that people talk about and report (usually the wikipedia page) when they complain.</p>
<p>“No where am I saying Cornell isn’t a great school, however far too often on this board I see people defending Cornell beyond what is reasonable. All I’m saying is that while I don’t agree with the numerical exact value of rankings, I do not believe that Cornell is on par with HYPS which some times people on this board think to think it is. While Cornell IS better at some things than HYPS by a fair margin, the AVERAGE student coming out of HYPS is in better standing at a pre-professional job than one is at Cornell, and typically those are the students that care the most about rankings in the first place.”</p>
<p>I don’t think I was defending it more than what is reasonable at all. Rather, the grounds of offense are and they have been really, really repetitive - which makes me regurgitate the same points over and over again to people on this forum, especially to people like Saugus. I might have went a bit beside the point, but that’s because I know what he and others are going to go on to since I have seen this pattern before and I don’t want to waste any more post on insecure prefrosh/trolls. Also, I never said It’s better than HYPS holistically, but many people seem to make a big deal out of it even when there is nothing there for them to pick on from my comments.</p>
<p>First post. I think we’re equal to HYPS in a lot ways but we’re just not as well known because we don’t advertise ourselves as much as they do. Besides, all those schools aren’t always at the top of all those rankings that Colene posted either. H almost always is. P and S are most of the time jbut Y is usually farther down in the rankings than the other three and I think in some rankings I’ve seen we’re even equal to it. Anybody who knows anything about colleges knows about Cornell and its reputation is good. It will def get you a job.</p>
<p>Pretty bad/possibly inflammatory post but…</p>
<p>“First post. I think we’re equal to HYPS in a lot ways but we’re just not as well known because we don’t advertise ourselves as much as they do.”</p>
<p>Rather than advertising, they have an established reputation for being the “big 3” - and for a good reason. Stanford, I think, actually benefits from not being in the ivy league.</p>
<p>“Besides, all those schools aren’t always at the top of all those rankings that Colene posted either. H almost always is. P usually is and S is most of the time jbut Y is usually farther down in the rankings than the other three and I think in some rankings I’ve seen we’re even equal to it.”</p>
<p>They’re definitely 3 of the best schools in the world. We’re in there with the other ivies that are equal/better in some respects, but still slightly lesser overall because of the incredible funding, reputation, and everything that make HYP what they are.</p>
<p>“Anybody who knows anything about colleges knows about Cornell and its reputation is good. It will def get you a job.”</p>
<p>Well, that’s true enough. Job opportunity for Cornell graduates is far above average.</p>