Parent Concern Over School's Support of Extracurricular Project

Parents Forum
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<p>All of you guys are very reasonable thoughtful parents with tons of good ideas and feedback! Thanks very much for it all. </p>

<p>As far as putting things in writing in these situations, I do agree that often that is the way to go and have done so when other issues at school have arisen. The person who posted about how they once had a verbal agreement over something at school only to be told at a later date that no such thing was agreed upon.....how bout this: I have had agreements in writing involving the principal, only to have the entire agreement renigged upon way after the fact cause of a teacher's fuss who had agreed to what was in writing in the first place originally. </p>

<p>Back in seventh grade, with this same child (our middle and high school are in one facility)....before my child entered the school, her elem school principal and grade five/six teacher desired to go into the middle school she was about to enter for seventh grade the coming fall and call a meeting in June of sixth grade to discuss this child because THEY felt she had serious gifted learning needs, which they had accommodated over the years but knew she needed this done in middle school and wanted to make sure the middle school heard from them about her needs before sending her onto them. They called a meeting with the seventh grade team and middle school principal, with all the sending principal and teachers and ourselves and our daughter and her guidance counselor she would have for grades 7-12 (again the sending school initiated it because they were concerned that the middle school which is not nearly as well regarded would not do her justice in meeting her learning needs). By the way, as an aside, the GC report for colleges harkens back to an anecdote about the impressions he had about this kid from that initial meeting before she entered the school. So, this meeting went well and some plans for seventh grade were drawn up with certain academic accommodations. </p>

<p>Then, unbeknownst to us, her fifth/sixth grade teacher took it upon himself to meet with the head of the HS English department and brought along a writing portfolio of my D (excels at writing) and showed her various extensive papers she wrote from ages 10-11 in the two years she spent in his class, including a 90 page musical she wrote and many 20 page papers and such. He asked her if she would take my D on into her creative writing class typically taken by 12th graders and she told the gr. 5/6 teacher from the elem school that she would and so he arranged with the middle school principal to add this course into her seventh grade plans when she arrived the following fall. The middle school principal wrote up her learning plans in a letter to us which included, among other things, that she would be taking the high school creative writing class with that HS teacher which would begin Nov. 1, second marking period. The logistics of how she would work her MS schedule out was to be figured out later. </p>

<p>So, she starts seventh grade, and as it got closer to Nov. 1, I called the MS principal to remind him that we still had to work out the logistics with her seventh grade teachers for when she went to creative writing each day in the high school the next marking period as it was fast approaching. Afterall, I had a letter saying that was the plan! Next thing I know, I hear the high school teacher does not want to do it though had supposedly agreed readily to it when the plan was drawn up. She was saying she did not want a middle schooler in her class, all of which is something she is entitled to say but all of that was agreed upon back when the plan was drawn up. In fact, this course was the linchpin of her accommodations, though there were others in other subjects, this was her real strength and something that had not come from the parents but another teacher and agreed to by the principal. </p>

<p>A meeting was called, this time with the high school principal who oversees the entire gr. 7-12 school, this creative writing teacher (who was BEST friends w/ the high school principal...widely known, not my opinion), the fifth/sixth grade teacher who had initiated the arrangements, and the middle school principal who had agreed and written up the plans/agreements. The creative writing teacher would not budge and the whole plan was off and the fifth/sixth grade teacher was scratching his head as was the middle school principal as here it was all in writing and had been agreed upon. So much for stuff in writing! </p>

<p>The following year in 8th grade, she did take creative writing with the 12th grade with a different teacher and in fact, another high school teacher who taught mostly 12th grade and was teaching a course in Shakespeare invited my D to be in her class (nothing we asked for) and she knew her because she directed the dramas and had cast my D as leads in the HIGH school drama the two years she was just a middle schooler. My D also did high school math and French and so forth. But the idea of stuff in writing is a good one but even THAT does not always hold water! </p>

<p>Back to the musical cabaret....(I told you we have been through numerous roadblocks in her education at this school, though never at her wonderful elem school who went out of their way to meet her needs and WANTED to)....</p>

<p>As mentioned, I told my D to ask the instrumental music teacher to clarify if he is saying the whole thing is off or if he is interested in meeting to figure it out and "solve" it somehow. I also asked her to tell him that I was willing to meet if he felt that was needed though was not sure why. She had agreed to that, but when I saw her today, she said she did not do that today at school (time is part of the reason) but she is a VERY VERY strong willed child who can be quite challenging (with parents) and kept insisting she does not see any reason for her parents to meet and does not want that to happen as this was her project and for her to discuss and work out. I told her he asked for us to meet with him so what is the harm as it is not like I am running into school to "complain" but he brought that idea up. She said he did not say he had to meet with us but said it more like, "if your parents want to meet, they can." I think like you guys, why not....just to hear what he had to say and to offer my views on the matter. I don't even think he has a clue that what she has already devoted to this project for two months (she admits he likely does not). A couple other kids thought like we do, that one would think they would be encouraging kids to do such initiatives and projects, not discouraging them (her spirit here was surely dampened). </p>

<p>Now she says that she and a senior girl (another key player in the department who is the only other girl at our school pursuing a professional degree in this field as is my D) have a meeting set up to talk to him during lunch tomorrow. She was adamant about my not going in. I still think I may talk to him eventually but am treading lightly to see what happens tomorrow because this would upset my D (if you knew her). I still think it is my right as a parent to discuss anything with a teacher. I want to let her play her end out tomorrow, and that is all right. Unfortunately her dad is saying she does not have to do anything she does not want to do as this is her thing. We have been AVID supporters of the music department and both my girls have been key participants in several areas within it, exceling at the state level, and so forth. My husband also does not respect this teacher very much though has been supportive over the years anyway, but is taken back by this latest turn of events. Back in seventh grade, when the entire team of teachers met to come up with plans for my D, he was not present (which is fine) and so we had asked if we could meet with him some time to just talk about our D because actually she was quite advanced in music and we wanted to talk about any ideas he may have for her in middle school, etc. He did NOT want to meet and saw no need to meet with a parent. Eventually she was put into 8th grade band (her elem school had chosen to accelerate her in instrumental music at a young age so she was coming from such a situation)...but this accomodation was only made out of necessity when after the school year began, they had to change her into 8th gr. French and in order to do that she had to switch to 8th grade band. But he was not that into meeting with a parent, at least back then. He was fine with her going into the next grade band when the MS principal asked for it and it all went totally fine. </p>

<p>I think you guys have wonderful suggestions and I will try to tell you how it turns out. I would like to talk to him and have to figure out how to do that and keep the peace here at the same time, lol. As I said, she really wants to do it in her heart and soul but does not want to do it if it will entail aggravation or a lack of support and bad feelings for two months as it is not worth it considering the huge amount of work it entails on her end to undertake it as she is also involved every single night in other arts training outside of school and is taking the most demanding academic schedule. It is a labor of love but not worth it if it will mean a difficult situation with these music faculty with whom she works in chorus, select choir, jazz band, and the spring musical. It is worth seeing what is up, in my opinion, before calling it quits.</p>

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<p>I do feel badly when educators who rather than being delighted and encouraging of such initiative, drive, dedication, leadership, and creativity, are trying to block it. You hear how colleges like to see kids do these sorts of things and it is hard for me to believe our school seems to stop kids from doing them and believe me, this is NOT the first time I have felt this way with either of my kids there. Even this year, they almost did not let this daughter take math and here we had a kid willing to do AP Calculus on her own because they had the course at the same time as her English/History class and thus she would not have any math and she needs math to go to college and was willing to take the hard road to doing Calculus independently (has been done before by not only herself other years but her sister, not a new thing) and the Calc teacher was willing to take her on and supervise it but the math dept. head was saying no, too much work for a teacher even though the teacher was perfectly willing to support her taking math independently under his wing. She is indeed doing it with this teacher handing her all the assignments/tests but she is not in the class and takes one period per day for math sitting in his office working on her own, and actually currently has the highest grade in that class, despite being two years younger. I find there are teachers who support and celebrate such gifts and ones who put up roadblocks when not the "norm". </p>

<p>Sorry for more venting....you can see this is not a new situation here but this one hit her deep passion (musical theater) whereas she could care less about math and hates it, lol, despite exceling at it.</p>

<p>As far as securing the date on the school calendar or theater space, and why didn't she do that sooner....our theater does not book up like some of you have at your school and is not an issue at this point in time. Also she had no reason to really double check that the date was recorded officially because everyone knew they were doing it again and would never have assumed it was an issue as they did it last year with not a negative word about it ever. I am sure they knew she was doing it again as she has contracted with all the kids involved and these kids are down in the music department each day and it was no big secret. I think these two music teachers obviously have some thoughts about it and so when she went to confirm the date, her music teacher (choral) who is dept. head, hemmed and hawed and did not want to answer her and passed the buck to the other teacher who is not even her teacher and told her he would want to talk to her. My D really had no reason to do this step much sooner than this. The show is slated for early Jan. and there are no conflicts with anything the music dept. is doing and in fact, this time slot is purposely between various events and EC things at school for everyone involved.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>The number of problems we have had in K-12 with both D and S would fill volumes. But I will continue to support public schools because I truly believe that we must. As much as schools claim that they want to reach each child and nurture each child, the truth is that the "gifted" student always faces struggles.</p>

<p>Susan, I feel for you. It is always hard to watch our children suffer through situations that could be avoided if "adults" would be reasonable.</p>

<p>I think I understand why your D doesn't want you involved. It is not your issue it is hers and in a few months she will be in college having to deal with issues on her own. No college professor will ask to talk to her parents!!!</p>

<p>Many adults casually dismiss teenagers. But in many societies, childhood ends much earlier than here. We prolong childhood in the US long past the time when all of the hormones say "adult". Obviously your D is highly intelligent and mature. She doesn't want or need you to do battle for her (Ouch). I learned this the hard way with my S (who is Sr. in college) and have tried to be much better with D.</p>

<p>View this as yet another opportunity for your D to gain skills that she will need throughout life. Better to do it now while you are still there to support her. Sometimes you have to fail to learn the true joy of success.</p>

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<p>Fosselover, when my daughter told me the teacher said that he could meet with her parents, I agreed with her when she felt there was no need because she could handle it and bring up her points (she said there is nothing we could have said that she can't herself) and afterall, it was HER project and her initiative and we had nothing to do with it. That is why I told her at first to just tell him we were willing to meet if he felt it was necessary but wondered what the purpose of meeting with us was.....not sure if it was just to inform us it is "off" and he might figure (rightfully so), that we won't be too pleased, or if he wanted to have a meeting to work out any issues he saw with it. I'm not totally sure even why her parents are needed because even though she is the one who wrote and directed the show, it really was a group thing, and not totally about her, in the way that some academic issue would normally center on one child. She feels STRONGLY that the parents not be involved. However, I did point out to her that this is a little different than if we, as parents, went into the school of our own initiative to "complain" or raise some issue of concern. The teacher was the one who mentioned that her parents could talk to him, so it came from him. I also don't think it could hurt and honestly do wish he could hear how a parent views this, plus am curious myself to hear what possibly be a valid reason to discourage this very worthwhile endeavor that one would think would be encouraged and was so successful the first time. So, there is the delicate balancing of doing just what YOU said and let my daughter deal with it on her own, and yet being an involved parent and advocate and talking with the teacher. I am going to see what happens when she talks to him today with this one other student, both of whom hold their own with adults. I see the value of a parent talking with the teacher, for sure, but I also see her stance about dealing with it on her own as it is her project and all. I'm not afraid to conference with teachers and have had to do so in some really difficult situations, far worse than this. I happen to get along and support these teachers so that is a plus though I frankly am not happy about this turn of events. I have gone in, however, to talk with some teachers when some very unprofessional and unpleasant things have occurred and have always tried to handle it professionally and nonconfrontationally on my end, because afterall, I am an educator by profession and I believe in working relationships between parents and teachers. Unfortunately I have come across a small handful (thankfully small) who have acted most unprofessionally in such meetings and were very unwilling to work together. I even had a teacher last year confirm that she did not care for my child. Come to think of it, that same teacher, when my D showed her a poster of her musical cabaret and invited her to come see it told her, "I would never come to your show because I am a scorpio (I might have the constellation wrong here) and I hold grudges." Well, I don't want to get started but suffice it to say, like you, I have had my share of not so pleasant things in school but on the flip side some wonderful things too. Just the other day, I was in the market and ran into a teacher that actually both my kids have had for history and most recently my older D had senior year and I purposely went up to him and came close to tears telling him what a positive affect he had on my daughter because now that she is at Brown she has mentioned to me several times how so much of what he had taught her had come in handy in a course she had at Brown and how prepared she was due to him and in fact, this past weekend on parent weekend, she asked me to bring her notebooks from that high school course to have at college to refer to. He was so touched by how much he had made a difference and has always said how much he admires my D and the privilege it was to teach her. But I also know from being a teacher myself, how teachers often hear when people are NOT happy and it is important to let them know the positive things too and I know he said it meant a lot for me to come give him this feedback. So, while I have shared some of the more negative experiences, there have been many very good ones as well. </p>

<p>Anyway, Fosselover, it is a fine line here in this instance between my D's wish that we not be involved and also seeing my parental duties so to speak in the matter. I will see how this plays out. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I understand your position and would probably behave it much the same way. Reading your post and the responses upset me because I really object to the way some adults treat teenagers. People are constantly asking them to be more mature and responsible, yet refuse to treat teens as they would other adults. Your daughter has behaved as an adult and should be treated as such. You and your daughter are behaving professionally, sadly other adults are not.</p>

<p>You get such a mixed bag with teachers. Some are great and some are not so great. When they find a teacher that inspires and supports it is wonderful.</p>

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<p>Here is an update and Fosselover, it zeros in on the discussion you and I just had....</p>

<p>My daughter just called from school quite upset (not crying but feeling badly and infuriated as how she feels she was just treated). She said she went up to the instrumental music teacher (the person who had spoken to her the other day as her own teacher who is the chorus teacher and head of the department would not talk to her about it) during lunch as planned. She told him that she and many of the other students involved in the show would like to meet with him because they wanted to work it out and are disppointed in hearing that they don't want the kids to do it again this year. He said that while her parents were willing to meet, she wondered why that was necessary because they wanted to work it out themselves as it was their project. He said he has no interest in meeting with the kids and turned to the other teacher and said, "Ms. X, do you have any interest in that?" and then he said, this is between us and YOU and YOUR parents. She mentioned that it really is a collaborative project with the entire group of theater kids. And she said he spoke to her quite rudely making her feel terrible, even though she was trying to handle it on her end professionally and maturely (according to her). Actually I am not sure why this is about HER and US even though she created the show and directed it, it was truly a collaborative student run production, rather than an individual thing at school as would be in a class or something. It is not really just about her. They all want to do the show again and have planned it all fall in their schedules. </p>

<p>NOW she is saying, please call him MOM! I told her all along that while I agree with her that they should have been able as students to meet with the teachers and discuss it, that if the teacher is saying he only wants to talk to her parents, then like it or not, or agree with that process or not, that is what you gotta do because he wanted that. It is not like I went in and initiated as a parent but he asked for us to come in. And I see nothing to lose in doing so. I am very interested in what the big deal is about when this has been such a wonderful thing all the way around. I think she is insulted that he was not willing to talk to mature students, many of them seniors who are devoted to this department and are leaders, and wants to talk to ONE of their parents, and the nature of the way he spoke to her, and the way she describes it is quite upsetting. I just left a cheery message on his voice mail that I understand he would like to meet with us and to get back to me so we can set something up. </p>

<p>I let my D try on her own as she preferred that but was met with "absolutely will not" talk to you or the other kids involved. She feels like she is being reprimanded or treated negatively when all she did was something very positive here. No matter what happens, I am not sure she'd do it with this negative "stuff" going on with the faculty in that dept. and how dampened her spirit and drive has been from their approach to her simply asking to confirm the date. She had no idea this was coming and I will meet with him/her if just to find out what in the world is going on here. Plus while being polite, I surely will give my point of view on why I think this should go on and that if there were any issues with it, the approach could have been one of "let's see how we might be able to work something out". These kids are trying to do GOOD things here. We are not talking discipline problems, we are talking excellence!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>This is the type of situation that makes me want to scream. She has to call you in because the staff refuses to deal with her!!! It never ceases to amaze me. Some adults just refuse to treat students as adults. Do they behave this way because it is the only area of their life they can "control". Upon meeting with them I'm sure they will fill you full of platitudes and come up with dozens of "reasons" for their decision. They will make claims they can't substantiate and accuse your D of being self-centered. Arrgghhh. I feel your pain. </p>

<p>I hope this doesn't discourage your D. We can only make changes happen in this world by constantly trying to effect change. </p>

<p>Good luck</p>

<p>Alice</p>

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<p>Soozie:</p>

<p>Many if not all of the kids involved are graduating, right? And they are supposed to be involved in some performance organized by the music department some time in the spring, right? Then they have leverage. YOU can point out that their disappointment over not being able to put on THEIR show will have an impact on their work for the music department's planned performance. It's just the logical outcome of their less than cordial relations with their teachers. How can they be expected to put their hearts and souls into the teachers' projects when the teachers treat them so badly and are so unsupportive?</p>

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<p>Yes, Marite, it is basically the same kids. All the kids in the student run musical cabaret revue will be participating in the spring school musical and in fact, most of these kids are the ones who are tapped for the key roles as these are frankly the most interested, involved and talented kids in the school in this field. Most of these kids, if not all, also make up the teacher's "select" choir. I have NO idea why they are opposed to hearing the kids' point of view as it was THEIR baby, not mine. I don't think my D would be into any "leverage" issue here as she does not want to make it a confrontation and when she first came out of the building after their first "chat", her initial reaction was that she did not even want to do the show anymore (despite how much she has already put into creating it and her strong desire and looking forward to it a great deal, as were the other kids), because she did not want to have to deal with if the faculty in that department were going to be "difficult" or negative about them. She does have to deal with them for several things including class and her ECs. You'd think they would be thrilled to have a kid so devoted to this area who has exceled and brought attention to the school's strong music dept. and who has invigorated other kids to go the extra mile too. As someone else said, maybe because it was not THEIR baby, they are opposed. Obviously they were not too happy last year but I had no idea to this degree! I am wondering if I should inform the other parents of the cast, or at least the half of them who participated last year. While my D might be the mover or shaker of this endeavor, it really is not all about HER. I don't see even why he sees it as ONLY about HER and HER PARENTS. She tried to point out it was a collaborative project and other kids wanted to discuss it with the staff too but he got very angry according to her. That attitude upsets me as both my kids only brought good things to their department, achieving the highest recognition in those areas in our state. Even this student run musical was written up in a state wide publication to every high school touting what this group did in the performing arts. Did they not LIKE that??? who knows...
Susan</p>

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<p>I am so sorry, but again, I can relate entirely. My son--the one who is trying to recreate the county robotics team after the ex-sponsor abandoned it last year--cannot even get the county administrative person to return his phone calls--and she will not release the boxes of old materials to him because he is a student. Same disrespect. And he won't allow us to interfere because, he says, he has to learn to deal with this kind of attitude himself.</p>

<p>I say he shouldn't. It amazes me that these same people will complain that "kids" don't treat THEM with respect.</p>

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<p>Geez, I'm sorry your daughter is going through this, Soozie--have to say, this sort of thing really "fries my gourd" (my husband likes to use that phrase, and it seems very appropriate here). Good grief, it is your D's last year there--what is the music department trying to accomplish by thwarting this student run show? As a parent there, I'm sure you want to know. Well, good luck with your meeting, and in finding out what is at root of this apparent opposition to student run projects. You seem very level headed, I'm sure you'll handle it well. </p>

<p>Oh, and that comment from the teacher "I am a Scorpio and I hold grudges"--such an odd thing for a teacher to say to a student. Sounds like that teacher in Freaky Friday, or Ms. Trunchable in Matilda. Amazing.</p>

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<p>Soozie:</p>

<p>The leverage issue is not something that your D ought to bring up; it is too confrontational. but YOU could point out your concern that the students' disappointment may spill over to other endeavors, in particular the spring performance, and you want to discuss with the teachers way to avoid it. In other words, instead of being confrontational, try to present it as an area of joint concern, needing cooperation between teachers and students, and that you as a parent are willing to do your part but that you need help in restoring the spirits of a very disappointed student who has already invested time, energy and money into the project. You are feeling that the musical could be seen as your D's parting gift to her school, and are concerned that she may feel disengaged from the school as a result of her wasted efforts.
As for the other parents, your D should talk to her friends and let her friends deal with their parents. It's possible they will want to discuss the matter with the teachers, either singly or as a group. Perhaps, your D's friends will also bring up the issue of the impact of their deteriorating relations with the teachers on their spring performance.</p>

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<p>Ctymom...like your son, her first strong preference was for us not to interfere and to learn to deal with it herself. And yes, she feels quite disrespected here as a person and also just the tone they used with her from the way she puts it. And for what? For doing GOOD things? As she said the first day....I feel like i am being reprimanded for what was my most proudest accomplishment!</p>

<p>I can't wait for college....
As I said, her GC when hearing this just said, "I am so happy that you are getting out..."
Susan</p>

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<p>I think the whole issue here is one of territory (and jealousy). The two music teachers don't like it that your D was the guiding force behind this very successful endeavor last year. She did a better job than they would have done, if they had even thought to do this sort of performance. The two teachers are threatened by your D's extraordinary talent and organizational abilities, which are already at a professional level. Performing arts teachers are often territorial about their own departments and programs, and often rather disparaging and competitive about the work of others. This may be unconscious on their part. They just don't like seeing a 16-year-old student excelling on their own level, and they want to prevent it from happening again.</p>

<p>As a parent, you are looking at the situation as a mature adult with no territorial issues. Of course it's good for the kids, the department, the school, the community. The teachers are just looking at their own little bubble. (Think of two-year-olds: "My yard! Mine! You can't play here unless I invite you in!") </p>

<p>I think when you go in for your meeting, the teachers will say that your D already has enough recognition and performing opportunities at school, and they think that has a negative effect on their department. They will use the "invited to perform" casting as another excuse--that this isn't a fair endeavor for all the kids in the music department.</p>

<p>Territory. Jealousy. Not fair...but definitely part of life, in the performing arts, especially.</p>

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<p>Marite, thanks for your WISE words. </p>

<p>The thing is, she said he was adamant that he had NO interest in talking to the students...and I don't think he meant just as a group but any one individually either. THAT was what upset her the MOST. </p>

<p>I think your point that this action (not sure the action actually but is sounding more and more like they do not want the show to go on as opposed to my first hope in that they just wanted to work out any issues they had with it)....but your point that this action on their end would take the spirit away from the kids who they need the most. They won't be happy campers and these kids are the core of theater there and their shining stars.....not just my child. But even in her case, she is trying to pursue this major in college and should be able to participate in such things in her high school as she prepares for college. This is not some fleeting interest or minor thing in her life....it is the core of it, though thankfully she is involved in other performing arts endeavors. </p>

<p>When I think of it...my D and another boy involved in this cabaret....are only two of the three teens in the state cast in a major adult theater production in a city in our state, which will inevitably be mentioned in the playbill where they come from and go to school. In fact, there is an article in a paper here today about my child being in this adult show and mentions that she is a student at this high school. I have no clue why they are working against their stand out kids. </p>

<p>Then by the same token.....the music teacher (choral) is not pleased that my D won't be auditioning for All New Englands for vocals (as she has to go to a college audition out of state that weekend and really does not even want to devote time to preparing for All New Englands as she is not interested anyway but will be going for all states again and just got into regionals) and yesterday was asking my D since she says she cannot make the VT audition for New Englands if she would travel to CT to audition for New Englands. I don't think so! She is not only not interested but has to travel to 8 colleges to audition to get into college during a two month period and this classical audition is not of interest to her and she does not want to travel to New England Festival if she were to make it in. I am sure she wants my D to try out because she is the only likely contender to get in on voice for females in the school and it is very hard to get in. So, on the one hand, she wants my D to go out and try for that which would look good for our school to get someone in. On the other hand, last year, for some odd reason in the music concert program, while they noted who got into All States for band, they never noted that my D won the All State scholarship for both voice and for jazz too, which the state said was unprecedented, and we had two of the three state winners in jazz be from our school and they never publicized this at school at all. </p>

<p>Last year there was lots of recognition in the community over this student run show and it got more attention when it was televised repeatedly on TV. The radio publicity even touted our school being a Grammy winning music department so I think these guys brought positive attention to our school. I cannot see what is negative here, but would love to learn what is going on. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Bookiemom, yes, I believe there are jealousies and resentment going on. That was my gut feeling all along. And the way he brought up how the kids were frowning last year about the choice of Wizard of Oz as the musical which upset them, was one of his main issues that he mentioned and again, I believe the kids would have been vocal about that regardless if there had been a musical cabaret revue earlier. I even was quite disappointed with their choice of musical. Many parents were. It was a great show, mind you, but I already explained why the choice was disappointing. So, the way that he is tying that into how these kids complained about it.....just happens to be the same kids cause these are the kids who are active in theater and chorus and stuff like that. By the same token, HALF the kids/cast have graduated so the kids are not really the same, which she pointed out. The ones who were the most vocal or disappointed were seniors last year in their final year of productions there. </p>

<p>But none of this is worth it. It is really a shame to me though, I will admit. I would love to see educators who encourage and celebrate such endeavors. As an educator myself, I cannot imagine being more thrilled to see the kids take things so far on their own and excel. The fact that it was not THEIR (the staff's) show, must have really irked them, from what I can tell. It is too bad. Many who came to see it assumed the school ran it or was part of it so it made them look good the way I see it. At least at the colleges she is applying to, they do many student run productions in addition to the mainstage shows and these are well supported and encouraged for the theater BFA students. I can't wait for her to begin at a place that truly celebrates this sort of drive and endeavor. I know my hubby has never liked our high school (not that I love it either but it has its plusses and minusses) and has always felt this child should be at a performing arts boarding school where again, they'd welcome this kind of thing with open arms.</p>

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<p>I think that may be the crux of the matter. The teacher's pride is invested in the school doing well in the All New England's but she feels no stake in the students' production. She may think that your D's involvement in her show actually gets in the way of her participation in the All New England's competition. So, instead of seeing the production as a gift from the students to the school, she is seeing it as undermining her own efforts to have the school shine in a regionally recognized competition. Just a hunch.</p>

<p>If you can make the point that it has nothing to do with the production but with college auditions, it might be better (I''m sure that your D has already said so, but sometimes, people hear the same thing better from another party). As for your D's friends, I realize that the teacher does not want to meet with them; I was just thinking that it would be better if the parents met with the teacher and made roughly the same point that you will make--i.e., that the students will be so disappointed that their parents are wondering what will happen to the performances planned by the music department.</p>

<p>(trying to put words into your mouth, here :)</p>

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<p>Thanks for your help Marite!</p>

<p>As far as New Englands, the two are quite unrelated. When she wanted my D to set her audition sign up for New Englands which is in early Dec. on a Saturday, my D said she would be in Boston at auditions at one of her colleges. So, the music teacher recommended that on some other date, she should travel to CT (like five hours away) to audition with schools down there (I guess you are allowed to if you miss the one in VT). Frankly my D has no interest in doing New Englands as it means more audition prep of classical material (is not too into classical despite winning the state award for it last year), will have to already prepare material (different material) to enter All States, plus the individiual All State Scholarships again and is already working with coaches to prepare all of her 8 college audition material in musical theater. The logistics of traveling to CT to audition, let alone if she got in to travel next spring to the festival (none of this interferes with the cabaret by the way) is not workable with the other 8 trips she has out of state in that same period. She will do the All State stuff. </p>

<p>And frankly, my D JUST entered TODAY a NATIONAL arts competition of her own accord, not through school, though they know she did as they saw me filming it there, and in fact, have a poster about it hanging in the department though I don't know of anyone who has ever entered it from our school in the past...and while it is VERY difficult to place in that competition, what if by some miracle she does.....think of the recognition there...she had to list her school teacher in this area and listed this very teacher who apparently would receive some recognition (I forget the wording to that affect), when she truly had nothing to do with it, and she was coached outside of school privately for it. But hey, they stand to benefit if she gets any further with it (though honestly it is very competitive). </p>

<p>I was just reading admissions criteria on UM's website and three things perked my interest just now in relation to this:</p>

<p>"Did the applicant show evidence of forging frontiers in any activities — not simply presenting a laundry list of activities?"</p>

<p>Well, I guess so despite the school trying to stop her from doing it again. </p>

<p>"Do the activities show evidence of impact on the school and community? "</p>

<p>Well, yes, but I guess that will no longer happen.</p>

<p>"Do the applicant’s materials show considerable evidence of having taken advantage of opportunities, by displaying maturity in commitment, initiative, and responsibility?"</p>

<p>Yes, but can't do much more if not allowed to, unfortunately. I know colleges like to see it but what can you do when the school is stopping such initiative?</p>

<p>She never did this for college but in retrospect, colleges do like seeing such endeavors on the part of students. Why would a high school want to thwart that? But I do see exactly what you are talking about, Marite, but still feel disappointed to see that happening here. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>It doesn't sound as if you're going to win this. I hate it for you. Maybe our mantra will help you: Next year none of this will matter...Next year none of this will matter...next year none of this will matter....</p>

<p>At least you have a GC who sees and understands what she's capable of AND up against (Yes, I am a writing teacher who just managed to end a clause with THREE propositions!). Perhaps all that will come out subtly or not so subtly in the GC rec.</p>

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<p>Soozie: to quote you >But none of this is worth it<</p>

<p>Follow the Nike motto: just do it. Make an appointment with the teacher, non-confrontational as you and Marite say, and try to find out as much as you can about what is going on. You won't be able to find out everything and in the end, as you say, it's not worth it. Your D apparently has a huge number of opportunities to shine - looks like more than there are time for, particularly now with college considerations.</p>

<p>Get the meeting set up, let the teacher have his say, ask quietly probing questions (you'll be able to tell whether Marite's joint problem-solving approach might work). Then you and your D ought to be in a much better position to know what's worth spending your time on.</p>