<p>Sherpa,</p>
<p>While I’m sure this is true at the “top” Ivies, I know student-athletes who got into schools including Cornell, Johns Hopkins, and Stanford who would have NEVER gotten in on the basis of their academic credentials if not for their athletic prowess. </p>
<p>Many kids who get recruited to Ivies and other top schools are certainly academically competitive as well. Not all are.</p>
<p>While I agree with a lot of what you said, sherpa, for my S, it was not true that he was spared much anxiety.</p>
<p>In his sport, a lot of ‘recruiting’ involves the student-athlete trying to get on a coach’s radar screen. There were a lot of emails sent out and a lot of coaches who didn’t necessarily respond. He was out of area for most of the elite schools he was interested in, so he had to convince them that he was worth looking at during national showcase tournaments. And then once they agreed to watch, he waited to see if he was someone they wanted.</p>
<p>For the good part of junior year, he was anxiously awaiting word that a coach did, indeed, see him play and would offer him a spot on the team and support in admissions.</p>
<p>At some point, as several opportunities closed down, I was beginning to wonder if he would have to give up his sport if he wanted to attend an elite school.</p>
<p>It all worked out in the end, but the anxiety of waiting for that envelope on April 1 senior year was replaced by the anxiety of hearing from coaches and waiting for an offer in junior year.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Honestly, it’s everywhere. Last year, an Olympic-track female sculler went to Harvard from my kid’s school. She’s a lovely young lady and I’d rather not comment on her academic talents. But, do I have a problem with that? Not in the slightest. Schools benefit from having kids with talent and these talents need not be strictly academic. Should they consider artistic talent any different from athletic talent. If so, should a top musician, poet, or painter be excluded from Harvard, simply because they didn’t get a top score in math? </p>
<p>Bottom line is that people can be haters or merely jealous of another kid’s success or talent.</p>
<p>agree with certain key positions in fb and all in b-ball. but you’re wrong about about the other sports. granted they were noticed and recruited for their respective sport but their academics are equal to non athlete students attending cornell, jhu, and S. i’ve been invloved for years in my d’s sport club and know the gpa’s sat’s and elite prep school curriculums these kids have…NEVER would they go to schools outside of the top 20 usnwr.</p>
<p>Kate, my reaction isn’t really aimed at you, because I do value CC as a place to post in cyber heaven versus trying to talk about it with real people, too many landmines in real life, in my experience… </p>
<p>anyway, my reaction is aimed at the subset of parents who experience this kind of behavior from others… herein lies the challenge we face… can we parents rise above the fray and just be kind in return? the fundamental underlying issue is that most people want only the best for their kids… and it is hard not to “envy” when it seems others have an embarrassment of riches in their kids lives… </p>
<p>perhaps, when they ask if you are worried about your kid’s ability to do well at school, what they are really doing is wondering aloud if their other children could start working towards a similar outcome? if we care about our kids, we probably do worry about something at any given moment of the day… so perhaps a reasonable response to the initial inquiry is simply, "yes I am worried about my son and his college career, but not in regards to his overall ability to do the work, rather I am worried about (substitute in your choice of answer here) his ability to enjoy himself while doing the school work and athletic work, or I am worried about our ability to get down to see his events/games etc, or I am worried about how quickly the 4 years will pass… even if they have no other kids and are just being snarky, reach down deep and just be kind and good, because your family has been the beneficiary of good, so share it. </p>
<p>Throw the person a bone and let them know that the school has tremendous resources to ensure that kids don’t fall thru the cracks and based on talking to kids on the team and the coaches, you have confidence your son will do well… and that you encourage all parents to ask questions and get their own issues addressed by the powers that be at any school… </p>
<p>yeah the folks making all of these comments may all be morons and idiots and jealous SOB’s but, that is only a bigger challenge for all of us, who do know better, to lead with kindness… everyone can have a bad day and say something they might regret… I learned a long time ago to allow for three strikes before someone was out with me… </p>
<p>I do think our world is getting harsher and harsher and while I totally understand how much we want a little time in the spotlight for our kids, we have to understand that there are kids who never get a moment to shine… or kids who disappoint their own parents and so the parental disappointment leaks out sometimes in their comments… maybe they have fought over homework for years in their home and their comments originate from those nightmares?? </p>
<p>Kindness has to be more of an answer… so that instead of survival of the fittest we can celebrate survival of the kindest…</p>
<p>^^all for loving kindness! another buddhist precept is life is suffering. so if we think of them as suffering (as we all are) it’s a bit easier to be kind in the face of their insults.</p>
<p>however there is a duality, because in competition my athlete is trying to beat (and beat badly) the opposing team! And beating someone is not congruent with kindness. after the competition almost everyone is kind to the opposing players. but during competition, it’s take no prisoners.</p>
<p>maineparent–in general, I agree with your compassionate viewpoint. We are so blessed, and can afford to be generous and encouraging with others. That said, I used to employ the throw-them-a-bone approach you describe in your third paragraph, but don’t subscribe to it any longer. I tried to be humble and self-effacing, but learned the hard way that when dealing with people like this, whatever you share with them only gets used as more ammunition against you and your child. If I were to say, “Yes, I’m worried about D being so far from home,” then that would become “TheGFG doesn’t want to cut the apron strings,” or “TheGFG thinks D’s not going to be able to hack living away from Mommy.” If I were to say “I’m worried about my D managing her time with all the commitments she’ll have at college,” that would become “See, TheGFG’s D doesn’t even have good time management skills and still got accepted to Elite School X. There’s too much favoritism toward these athletes!” Some twisted words of mine have gotten back to my D too, which was hurtful to her. She wasn’t completely convinced I didn’t actually say what she heard I’d said. </p>
<p>Also, regarding pacheight’s take-no-prisoners comment: one thing that I’ve noticed about parents of non-athletic kids or of non-competitive kids playing sports, is that their parents view their way of being as the right way to be. It’s the “whatever I am is normal, and if you’re different you’re extreme” line of thinking. One lady told me that her D was just never going to be as good at sports as my D because she’s too nice. She agrees with her D’s feelings, because after all, wanting to win is the equivalent of wanting someone else to lose, and that’s mean and wrong. This after me stating that everyone has different personalities, and so kids play sports for different reasons and reap different benefits out of it (throwing her a bone after her lament that her D would never be as good as mine). </p>
<p>My point is it’s often best not to engage people like this at all, even nicely.</p>
<p>believe me that I do understand that there are many people who will take your comments and twist them, so perhaps instead of throwing a bone, you inquire as to what has them worried… “are you worried that you kid will have a hard time at their school?” At the end of the day, I know I am fortunate enough to have guided my kids and they listened, took actions and made stuff happen… and continue to make things happen (winning etc pacheight) but, this same reward or objective that we want for our kid (to be at the best school, to be on the best team, to have the best package (ie school, sport and $$$)) is the reason why we are getting the comments… and the attention… from those who don’t quite know why our kids are “winning” and theirs aren’t… </p>
<p>I always said I didn’t want the credit because I wouldn’t want the blame… I just finished a weekend where I visited several ivy colleges with a friend whose child is a HS junior… and came away thinking how FORTUNATE these kids are… yes, they have earned the opportunities they have, but they have the opps… the resources at these schools are TOP notch… their lives are going to be different because of their 4 years… whether Stanford or Penn or MIT or UNC Chapel Hill, these kids will always have bragging rights and that has value… and other parents COVET it for their kid… and for themselves…sure I can say “MY kid goes to Yale” … but that just reminds me of the joke, “your kid is in Jail?” </p>
<p>so far, for my freshman, my favorite or most proud moment about this year is that he took a couple of sandwiches that had been provided for the athletes out to the bus driver who was outside waiting in the cold… </p>
<p>yes it is hard to forgive these other folks who think the only way up is to take someone down… but we can show them otherwise…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Given the “climate” lately and some comments…thought this thread needed a bump, </p>
<p>here’s another…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Recently a friend said that her student didn’t want to use their sport to aid admission because their student wanted to get in “on her merits”…</p>
<p>uh huh</p>
<p>I guess tact isn’t among her merits…</p>
<p>Recently, an acquaintance of mine moved back into the area and called to say hello. She asked about my kids, I asked about hers. Toward the end of the conversation she commented that she’s glad she just began a new career because otherswise she might have become " one of those crazy sports moms or parents who are obsessed with getting their kids into Ivy League schools." Hmm.</p>
<p>Wow, she’s subtle!</p>
<p>^^ Oh GFG that is ridiculous and hysterical…</p>
<p>Dont you wonder why these people dont have a “filter”? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>A close friend who has said all kinds of crazy things in recent months while her student is applying–from the above comment about “merit” and just silly things…</p>
<p>Some parents just say stuff because they are stressed about what is going on in their house and somehow knocking someone else/throwing stones makes them feel better</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Odd to quote something more than six months old. But…</p>
<p>I’m not surprised. While probably the majority of coaches would be happy, there are way more than a few whose view of the world is that want only the level of success for their athletes that they can take direct credit for. (I know–preposition) </p>
<p>They’d rather their kid lose than win doing it some other way than the coach thinks is best. And they love the kids who are subservient as opposed to self starters. For these guys, their kids getting into a great school and being able to compete there is their worst nightmare. </p>
<p>BTW, if you think people get snarky about college acceptances, wait 'til someone you know makes a bunch of money.</p>
<p>I completely agree with your summary of how some coaches feel and why. D’s coaches were offended that she was already very good as a freshman, ie. without much of their coaching. “Their way” was a gradual ugly-caterpillar-to-beautiful-butterfly type of improvement under their tutelage. I also think that they feel some guilt now about not always doing right by her with regard to their training and treatment of her. They must feel some fear that she’s going to be extremely successful in college and make them look bad because of much she improves under better training! I say this because they seemed oddly relieved when she told them of her injury this fall.</p>
<p>LOL to the last comment on money. My S graduated college in June and just started working. He is living in NYC, which of course is very expensive, and has thousands of dollars of college loans to pay off. One close family member told me he expected an expensive gift from S this year because now he’s making the big bucks!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think this is what happens to professional athletes when they sign their contracts, but its not in jest, and it comes from dozens of people they know. It’s the “little red hen” story about baking the bread. </p>
<p>Regarding the coaches…I believe many coaches don’t like players who have obvious talent early. It puts them on the spot and robs them of the excuses for constantly finishing down in the pack. The one where they explain that their kids don’t like hard work, and that the other sports get the good athletes while they get the second tier talents. And, depending on the sport, developing that talent requires a schedule and a practice arrangement that the coaches are not prepared to adopt.</p>
<p>I am reading these comments with interest. I am often frustrated with D’s track coach for holding her back (not entering her in invitationals because few kids make the quals, not giving her recognition - though she was the league MVP in the spring and earned the most points for the team, she was not named team MVP). Equally frustrating is the lack of facilities and coaching for her specific events. However, I am the one who is quietly frustrated --not my D who loves the sport and her team. It is her choice to represent the school rather than join a club team or have a private coach, and I respect that very much. </p>
<p>I have not approached the HS coach about college recruiting and neither has D (she has contact with some college coaches now). I don’t know what role he will play, if any in the recruitment process. I have very low expectations at this point and its seems based on your stories this is not unusual.</p>
<p>This was definitely my Ds experience as well. High School coaches were lucky to have a player that had been well coached and trained for 6 years before high school- but resented that perhaps she knew more about the sport they did… As a result she was often dissed in favor of the home grown athlete. That is until playoff time when all of a sudden she was the best thing since sliced bread! Jeesh! It was very hurtful for her… :-(</p>
<p>Our HS coaches were/are excellent… they are passionate runners themselves… they continually win state championships in multiple sports. They are wonderful advocates for all the kids, the ones that win events and the ones that help fill out the roster and garner the important 5th and 6th places… we are lucky and we know it. We have definitely benefited from our coaches patience and commitment to the kids. We met several very good college coaches also… kids on the various college teams were all happy to be running/jumping/throwing for their schools.</p>