<p>True about CAS. D didn’t have to spend a single extra hour fulfilling the CAS activity requirements. She only had to categorize what she’d already done in her existing ECs and then do the assignment, which as I recall was just a presentation, not a paper. That was no big deal.</p>
<p>The EE was another story. That involves many many hours of researching, writing, and presenting (at our school, there’s a special evening dedicated to the EEs, so the students must put together a presentation of some kind – table displays, posters, samples of the work, demonstrations, short oral presentations). Although you certainly can do an EE based on the same activities you use for CAS, it’s a lot of work over and above the CAS activities themselves.</p>
<p>Marian, you hit the nail on the head. S2 called it “death by critical analysis.” His biggest gripe was that they were expected to find meaning or insight analyzing things that were clearly never part of the author’s intent, and he is not the sort to BS his way through that stuff. When he had the opportunity to fulfill his remaining English requirement at Tufts with Philosophy, he grabbed it.</p>
<p>S1 took AP Lang at the same time S2 took pre-IB English. No question which was harder, as taught in our school system. </p>
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<p>This also happened with S2. He wrote 12 pages of his paper over the summer. Wrote it using the depth of knowledge he had on the topic acquired from years of reading current events, magazines, etc. He had bounced between several EE advisors trying to find a place where it belonged. Fast forward: he had to go back and retroactively footnote. AGH. He also wound up in a category, Peace and Conflict Studies, which is a school-based syllabus. On;y a few schools in IB world have a P&C course, and ours was not among them. What little material there is on the subject area has a big caveat: one should be taking the P&C course to do well on the EE so that one knows the relevant terminology.</p>
<p>Well, he dug around on school websites til he found some of the lingo, built it into his paper and crossed his fingers, esp. since his Peace and Conflict paper a) was somewhat political and b) was on maintaining nuclear weapons stockpiles.</p>
<p>Suffice it to say we were all stunned when he got an A on his EE.</p>
<p>We were glad CAS was covered by his sports and volunteer work. That part was easy.</p>
<p>One of the great things about an American education (as opposed to a British education which in format the IB is more similar to) is that 14 year olds do not have to decide what they are going to ‘specialize’ in. Basically, as Xiggi mentioned, by taking on the IB program a school abdicates many decisions to a group of people in Belgium, most of whom are NOT American educators. Kids who get into a particular IB sequence or pre-IB sequence as 13 or 14 year olds are then locked into the sequence. If you start IB Economics and decide it is just not for you after a year, too bad you have to stick with it. If you are learning Physics as a junior and change your mind- and decide you want to learn chemistry or biology in your senior year… too bad, you have to stick with it. </p>
<p>The nature of the program lends itself to rigidity in implementation. The IB becomes the driving force in all decisions made in a school and takes on greater importance, I have observed, than the students themselves. In international schools which have been using IB for many years, students spend the last 2 months of HS revising for these exams-- </p>
<p>I think that the prestigious US private schools and many elite public schools would resist IB because they have confidence in their teachers to be able to create programming which is as rigorous, but without the trappings and complications of IB.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that many (most in our area) IB diploma programs do not require the students to commit to the program, or take any courses directly in the program until Junior year of high school–age 16+ for most students. And it’s generally not the only option avaliable to the students. </p>
<p>I know I sound like a broken record, but it all depends on how your school administers the program. And that’s something you need to investigate.</p>
<p>IB at S2’s school is by selective admit beginning in 9th grade, where they do the usual college prep/AP coursework that other 9th and 10th graders take, only with the IB approach. Folks taking IB Music or art have a pre-req to take soph year, IIRC.</p>
<p>The only classes S2 was “locked down” to were Spanish and Bio, because at his school, the HL Physics is a two years sequence and there is no HL Chem or SL Bio. He was going to have English and history all four due to state requirements. He could have changed to any other math level or his other SL up to the beginning of senior year, if necessary.</p>
<p>In our area, there are specialized programs for math/science and the humanities. Those tend to focus 14 yos on a specific track much more so than IB. S2 said that one of the strengths of IB was that he was forced to work at a high level across the board in all subject areas, and he is now realizing in college that he actually has a solid science/math background to explore some other topics.</p>
<p>My S who attended the math/science program was FAR more focused on specific subject areas than S2 in IB. S1 had sixteen semesters of math, eleven of physics and and five of physics on his HS transcript. He’s a good writer, but S2’s writing is far more anaytical and nuanced.</p>
<p>It’s all in the implementation. This school has an outstanding rep, but there are things about it I’d change, those changes mostly not being IB-specific.</p>
<p>Students start the formal IB at 16 or so, but many schools have MYP or PYP as well. Beyond this, in order to be ready to take many of the IB courses, particularly at the higher level, decisions have to be made, as early as 7th or 8th grade in some cases, about what precursor classes to take. You would be hard pressed to do a language at a higher level unless you start in middle school, for example. In many schools, the 2 year science sequences are augmented with a 10th grade class that gives the students ‘core’ skills. </p>
<p>Different schools administer in different ways, however. Given that IB was developed to permit children living mobile lifestyles to move between schools (this was part of the original mission), this can be a challenge. </p>
<p>I think IB is a fine program, but I think that there is an undeserved mystique in many cases…</p>
<p>Au contraire, robrym, I find it comforting that I am not subject the the whims of some particular teacher whose dedication to a subject may be in doubt.</p>
<p>Speaks to the unfortunate quality of your teachers. Some schools and students are more fortunate. Furthermore, lousy teachers do not do a good job, at all, of teaching a curriculum like IB. You are just out of luck.</p>
<p>I’ve taught IB Biology for 10 years, and AP Bio for 7. I’ve had 2 daughters earn the IB diploma, and they felt the program prepared them well for college. I agree with many of the observations here - you need to look at what your school’s program offers to see if it meets your needs, and though I am a huge fan of IB, it certainly isn’t for everyone. AP is also very rigorous, and may be a better choice for a math/science kid. But some points I’d like to make </p>
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<li><p>The fact that the courses in the IB program have strict guidelines and standards is exactly why it is respected by college admissions counselors. We were told by several that they know what they are getting with an IB diploma kid. There are no standards for courses labeled “honors” or 'advanced" - they can differ from school to school. However, every IB teacher in every subject has to send a sample of work to be moderated (re-graded) each year. This ensures that I am grading according to the standards. Oldfort stated about his daughter For her science lab, if she wrote it in the exact format, she could be guaranteed an A. If she didn’t write her paper in the exact format, points would be taken off. But the rubric includes everything you want in a good lab report a focused research question, a hypothesis with an explanation from the literature, tables and graphs with units and uncertainties. These things should be standardized. </p></li>
<li><p>In 2008, College Board redid the grade distribution in AP Biology. Since then, only 49-50% of students taking AP Biology nationwide earned a passing score. In 2010, 36% earned a 1. So the idea that AP = college credit isnt a guarantee. We get much higher pass rates with IB, and our students get a lot of college credit. That is another thing to check on with your school. </p></li>
<li><p>As another poster stated, AP is redesigning some of their courses to look like IB. In 2013, AP Biology will be new. Instead of the dirty dozen cookbook labs theyve been requiring for years, they will go to inquiry based labs, the hallmark of IB sciences. They will also move away from a predominantly multiple choice test.</p></li>
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<p>dheldreth, thanks for your perspective from the teaching side. What you’ve said convinces me that learning the correct format for lab write-ups really is an important part of the scores, since S2 had a 4 on IB HL and a 5 on AP Bio. I am sure his write-ups could have withstood improvement! </p>
<p>Would also mention that while S2 had a 3.49 UW on his transcript, he got into UChicago and Tufts. He was extremely well prepared for college. His essays reflected the depth and breadth of his experience. In fact, I have found it both disconcerting and gratifying when S reports “we’re discussing things we covered in IB…” in regards to his college courses.</p>
<p>At S2’s school, one had to take at least one year of foreign language in middle school to even apply for IB. SL at his school meant you’d taken five years of that language. S took the Math Studies exam (the lowest level), but prepared for it by taking Calc AB and AP Stat.</p>
<p>^^ When D went to Admitted Students Weekend at her now-college, she attended 3 freshman-level classes. Her take was, “They were talking about things we’ve covered in school, just in more detail.”</p>
<p>dheldreth, thanks. </p>
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<p>Also, IB teachers are required to undergo training, and the school is subject to period inspection by the IBO.</p>
<p>And is that supposed to mean something in terms of quality? Who is inspecting the IBO in the first place? What are the qualifications of the “inspectors?”</p>
<p>xiggi, I don’t know the reason for your loathing of IB, but college educators disagree with you. Or maybe you know something that Duke, Harvard, VaTech, and W&M don’t. </p>
<p>During the course of my experience in my childs education, I was struck by how many directions the school district adopted, both on the local and state level. Math, Reading and Science programs came and went striving for one that worked better then the last one. A good example is whole language, epic fail.</p>
<p>IB while it may not be perfect for every child none the less is a world standard. We live and compete in a world economy which will only get more global as the years progress. Our kids need to know how to read and write across all disciplines. IB offers this more holistic approach of a topic.</p>
<p>My DD was challenged by IB and prepared her well for college. She chose an EE topic and threw herself into it and it was truly a life changing experience. She loved the TOK class and the critical thinking skills it promotes. With the quality of our education sadly declining over the past thirty years, a program such as this helps maintain a high level curriculum expectation which will be a solid base for the in depth courses students take in college.</p>
<p>As a US-credentialed teacher, I first learned of the IB program 25+ years ago when teaching in the Middle East. It was “A Big Thing” there already at that time! It was offered in grades 11 and 12 in my American School-based-curriculum school.</p>
<p>Fast forward to my own DD’s private international school (in southeast Asia) which had the IB program starting from Grade 1. (She was schooled there grades 1-7.) Basically, she learned how to plan and present projects, which we feel helped to prepare her for the real world.</p>
<p>Anecdotal fodder: The IB program in grades 1-7 worked really well for our DD.</p>
<p>My DS received his full IB diploma in June of this year. Our sense is that the IB experience varies from school to school, even though it is supposed to be consistent all over the world. At DS’ public high school, IB represented the most rigorous curriculum available, as they did not offer AP classes. But the teachers and students struggled to serve two masters: The World IB Programme on the one hand, and our local school district on the other hand. Sometimes, these two entities had conflicting requirements and agendas.</p>
<p>If he had to to it all over again, I think DS would have elected to take mostly IB classes, but would have skipped the full IB diploma. One reason is that our local school’s interpretation of CAS requirements placed an undue and artificial burden on the students that created a lot of stress and frustration.</p>
<p>That said, he appears to have been well prepared for the highly selective school he now attends.</p>
<p>Daughter decided not to complete the IB program as we both found it too restrictive. For her just taking AP classes seemed like the better option. She is a senior now and we do not regret her decision.</p>
<p>It was robyrm2 who said it #63. The fact that IBO is based in Switzerland is not an obscure fact. It really doesn’t matter, except that anyone who’s looked carefully into IB would know it.</p>