<p>I think there needs to be a teen-rearing revolution. In my observations over the past years Ive seen a huge trend in how, starting in middle school, teens are groomed. Everything revolves around developing a resume. There is an ulterior motive for everything. Were raising a generation of folks who know how to play the game of life, but dont really know how to live. An inordinate amount of time is spent obsessing over scores and grades. If people had acted like this in the 60s and 70s, when I grew up, theyd have been considered disturbed. Now its considered perfectly rational to spend hours dwelling over scores (OMG, I need to raise my W 40 points, how do I do it?), extracurriculars (which ones and how much?), community service (Oh no, I only have 200 hours!), essays (Please read my essay, Im not sure I clearly expressed how amazing I am), and the bizarre only 40 hours, 15 minutes and 45 seconds until they post the SAT scores- how am I gonna make it! posts. </p>
<p>Ive seen parents coming up with long term plans for their kids starting in 9th grade. (First little Julie is going to get on the school newspaper, while mom shmoozes the teacher until shes appointed editor in her junior year. Next mom comes up with some bogus community service project even though its completely obvious Julie isnt personally interested. Oh, and make sure Julie goes away in the summer to computer/writing/science/music camps when she'd much rather spend it working part time and sitting by the pool. Of course, all of these passions are dropped like hot potatoes as soon as Julie graduates.) Parents literally obsess over how their kids stack up compared to the rest of their peers. </p>
<p>Another development- parental involvement at the college level. My parents knew what I was majoring in and what my final grades were- thats it. They had no idea of what courses I was taking, unless it came up in general conversation, and certainly didnt micromanage my performance during the term. I met with my advisor, researched what classes I needed to take, registered, went through drop/add, and handled payment status through the registrars office on my own. Their primary involvement was mandating that I do it in 4 years, or else. I actually had a friend who contacted a prof at her daughters LAC when she was struggling in the class. How embarrassing for a 19 year old adult. I just dont remember any of this, thank God, from my teen years. I think my parents generation had a healthier distance from their kids- they didnt internalize our every success or failure. Does anyone else out there think this stuff borders on neurotic?</p>
<p>I completely agree with you, and I remember that as recently as the late 80's and early 90's, when I was in high school and college, I noticed very little of the pressures that you describe.</p>
<p>That said, what can you do except play the game today? I don't want my D to lose out on opportunities because she didn't do all of the seemingly crazy things she needs to do to get into the college she says that she wants to attend.</p>
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<p>I think there needs to be a teen-rearing revolution.<<</p>
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<p>So what are you proposing? Should Congress pass a law regulating how involved parents are with their teens? I think the best you can do is raise your own kids the best way you see fit and thereby serve as an example for others. Fussing and complaining about how other people raise theirs is a waste of time.</p>
<p>I don't think I'm a helicopter parent - perhaps I would be if I lived closer. But I do want to be more involved in my kids' lives than my parents were in mine. Senior year I was diagnosed with cancer and had surgery. I found the doctors and made all the hospital arrangements myself. (I was a nursing major.) Never occurred to me to tell the teachers what was going on - scheduled surgeries (two) for the days I didn't have classes. I even talked to my mom on the phone once from the hospital. Handled all the follow up myself, too. A couple years later, someone asked how I was doing, and my mom said, "Cancer? She never had cancer!" She really didn't remember.</p>
<p>So yes, many parents were less involved in former days, but I'm not one that thinks it was necessarily a good thing.</p>
<p>Yikes I'm not talking about parental involvement, or lack thereof, in cases of illness. I'll be there in a heartbeat if my kids get sick. </p>
<p>I'm talking about the treadmill parents find themselves on, like it or not, when their kids go to high school. It's the modern day equivalent to keeping up with the Joneses, except it's keeping up with the Jones's kid. Every parent I know wishes it were otherwise. I'm not proposing that we need to legislate how "hands on" parents are- I'm just commenting on how things have changed. I knew this thread would strike some nerves. Sorry:)</p>
<p>While I agree with some of what you said - there are a few points that need to be raised - first, when I was in high school there were not as many choices in class schedules- I think in my high school there was honors english, 2 math paths follow, and French. Everyone was cookie cutter with basically the same course work and same schedule. No one really focused too much on SAT or ACT scores - there were no prep classes and teachers commonly said that "this is a test you can't study for so don't worry about it". </p>
<p>The only involvement my parents had during high school was that they required my siblings and me to do community service - and that we did mostly as a family. (Every Thursday night we went bowling with mentally handicapped kids in town). </p>
<p>The only time they knew my high school grades was when report cards came - my brother they knew about more because he did not do as well and the school often called my parents about it. This was a problem - I think that had my parents been more on top of things my brother would not have had as many difficulties in school and probably would have been more academically successful. Because of his high school record he was encouraged to get a tech degree or go into the military - which is ok for some - but it turns out that he really is better suited for the business world. So he took the long road- military, tech school, work, went back to college, and now is working. I do not think he is bitter but he has made comments that he wished my parents had been more involved. I echo his complaint as my transition to college was horrible mostly due to my parents lack of involvement. </p>
<p>My mother now picks up my D from school everyday (for which I am VERY grateful!!) it has been very interesting. My mother doesn't believe in helping at all - she will tell her to do her homework but never actually checks to see if it is done correctly or even if she has done it. Her thought is that it is the school's job to do this. My thought is that it is my job to make sure that homework is at the very least complete. We do agree though, that if my D forgets something at home (project, homework) that she has to deal with the consequences. However, I will put the project, homework by the door and my mother will leave it wherever it might be. </p>
<p>I know that I will have to stop doing this sooner than later as it is probably setting up a bad pattern/habit...any suggestions about accomplishing that????</p>
<p>I see what you are saying about keeping up with the Joneses - and in some ways I think I am guilty of that - but not to the degree you have described - but as someone else pointed out what can you do if these are the things that need to be done in order to stay competitive in the college application process? I am not sure.</p>
<p>Re the homework thing -- we expect our kids to do their homework, and to ask if they need help.</p>
<p>We do see them doing their work, but we don't check it. Report cards show whether they've done the work or not.</p>
<p>In cases where the grades haven't been where they should be, my husband reviews the week's work (math or science) with the kids for a half hour or so on the weekend.</p>
<p>Generally, however, if the grades are not where they should be, it's because they haven't understood the concepts or done a thorough job on a paper or project -- not because they haven't done their homework.</p>
<p>I've also found that my HS daughter has learned to go and see her teacher when she doesn't do as well as she wanted to on a paper or test, and I think that is a good lesson to learn.</p>
<p>This is what I'm talking about. Parents routinely check homework, proof or edit papers, help with projects- and what happens? The bar is raised so high that it becomes necessary to get involved, starting in elementary school and continuing into junior and sometimes senior high. If you don't, your kid suffers gradewise, because EVERYONE ELSE IS. I know of a college student who emails her papers home to get them checked before she hands them in. If my kids were to hand in the work I did in 5th-8th grades (all by myself), they'd be C students- I was an A/B student, and better prepared for independent high school and college work. I've noticed the teachers at my kids' high school receiving the most criticism from parents are those that base grades entirely on in-class assignments and tests. Hmmm.</p>
<p>I think I must be more neurotic than I realized because I really pushed my 8th grade daughter to consider clubs, teams and other ECs before making a final decision on which high school to attend. I don't care what she does, but I want her to join something, meet people and get involved. Maybe I need to rethink.</p>
<p>I do like the idea of having grades based on in class work - and I know ALOT of parents who would be up in arms if they did that at my D school, especially in middle school. I know that part of my problem is guilt for being a single parent who works alot....I also agree that sometimes it can be difficult because if everyone else is checking homework and helping on projects it is hard not to want to help. </p>
<p>At a parent's meeting last year there was a mother there who had a graduating senior and a kindergartener at the same time. Several parents asked her to share her success (senior very successful, happy, good college acceptances, etc) she stood up and said "the only thing I know I did right was making D do her own work" She went on to say that it was hard at times when D failed at something or hadn't budgeted time well in HS - but D had survived with lessons learned. The whole time I was listening I totally agreed but when it comes time for action.....I have a problem.</p>
<p>Magsmom, it's funny you should bring up this issue. Someone raised a related issue today on the parenting forum for our local H-S.</p>
<p>Apparently the poster's daughter had a new and inexperienced teacher this year, material has not been presented well, and the whole class has been doing poorly (Cish average).</p>
<p>He wondered what to do about it, as his complaints to the administration have not been fruitful. He also wondered how to counsel his daughter.</p>
<p>The most common advice in response to this problem? He should get his daughter a tutor ASAP.</p>
<p>I don't remember which program it was (Nightline? 20/20?) but a couple of weeks ago one did a story on a bunch of parents who were competing, actually filling out applications and <em>worrying</em> about getting their toddlers into exclusive PRE-SCHOOLS. It was exactly like the college application process is to some families. These people even slept in lines outside the schools the night before the applications were being accepted! Some parents cried when their 3-year-old was denied "admission". The parents view this as a necessary step toward making their child academically competitive in the future. What a shame.</p>
<p>I think obsessively competitive parents create obsessively competitive students who work hard, but lack ideals, values, or passions. My peers will spend hours on extra-curricular activities, not because they believe in the work they are doing, but because they know thats what it takes to get on top. An overly-planned childhood and overly-scheduled adolescence will create an exceptionally hard-working student, but a student who lacks the ability to think creatively, to innovate, to stand for anything beyond his or her own advancement. David Brooks calls him an Organization Kid, a pleasant euphemism for what Ive always called a college whore.</p>
<p>Fendrock,
My kids were much like yours. They decided what they wanted to do and anything not interested in was met with "are you kidding?". Our only rule was that once they made a committment, they had to see it through for that season, school year, whatever. Mine even took it so far as not one of my 3 studied for SATs ---their rationale was that this way the score was truly them and not artificially raised by playing the game and they would match where they really belonged (my opinion was that they didn't want to study, but hey it was their college experience) All did go to schools they were happy with and the one that is out is successful in his field. I probably would have pushed more, but my kids all were the type that would have just dug in heels deeper.</p>
<p>Ahh, so now I know why my boys are B students! We don't check their homework! I often don't know when things are due until the night before. Of course, if they have any questions, we're happy to help but the only time I get to proof something is if I happen to grab a paper when it's coming out of the printer and I'm sitting at the computer next to it. What good does it do micro-managing that stuff now? If the kids grades are artificially high because their parents are helping them, what in the world will they do in college? Yuck, what a rock to tie around everyones neck. </p>
<p>Forget about the competitive college process, learning to do their own work, and fail, and get up and figure out how to fix it is the real life lesson.</p>
<p>Back in the dark ages (late sixties, early seventies) when I was in a private elitist all-girls prep school, we were all groomed VERY VERY carefully for the private colleges we were expected to attend. The college counselor (responsible for all 70 of us who were applying to college each year and nothing else) was given to remarks about "if you don't shape up, you're going to end up at Stony Brook."</p>
<p>The difference now is that grooming for private colleges has spread from the eastern prep schools to the rest of the country, and even into public schools, where the state universities used to be considered just fine.</p>
<p>Nice OP. It is difficult for kids to be kids.</p>
<p>To me it is important to balance high expectations against letting the kids do whatever they want. I do not think it is appropriate to push kids too hard in anything.</p>
<p>One story that illustrates this from my years as a soccer coach. After our yearly coaches meeting we went out to the local watering hole. One of the coaches was a D1 college coach that coached one of his kids teams. We asked him about pushing kids and how much was appropriate.</p>
<p>He told us of a girl he had tried to recruit into his D1 college program. Unfortunately she decided to go elsewhere. When his team went to play the school that she had chosen he noticed that the girls was not on the roster. He asked the coach what happened.</p>
<p>He said that he was welcome to try to get her to transfer to his program but that is not the real issue. She just did not want to play anymore. She had played soccer every weekend from when she was 10 until she went away to college. Clearly she was burnt out. </p>
<p>That is what I have always been concerned with, finding the line between high expectation while letting a kid be a kid. I haven't always done the right thing but I try to be very aware of that line.</p>
<p>I too know parents who "edit" (very loosely, more like "write") their kid's college papers....besides being unethical imo it also tells your own kid "I'm a better writer than you are". I too am amazed the kids don't resist, rather they want and expect it. Or they're too busy and the parent buys it!!</p>
<p>I also see college kids who do absolutely nothing at home. Have never cut the grass or taken out the trash. Of course this may be the minority but still plenty I know. </p>
<p>Too you have a lot of kids, even in college, trained to think, or even ask the instructor, is this going to be on the test? If not, don't bother with it. They've been raised that way. Makes you wonder how much worse can it all get a generation from now.</p>