<p>That is a very interesting article that Stressed4college refers to. Kind of reminds me of "Stepford" students. That is very prevalent at my kids' competitive private hs. Me, I like a little defiant spirit in a kid (or adult for that matter). I'm not talking Grand Auto Theft or anything, just the enthusiasm that comes with true interest, even if it's not something mom or dad is into. I like risk takers. I don't like kids who when you ask "what's your favorite color," they look up at mom.</p>
<p>My son played football for four years, against my wishes. I didn't forbid him, but he clearly knew how pained I was every fall Friday night (he was kind of a Rudy, but played a lot- small and prone to injury). He did it anyway because it was what he wanted. It's now the thing I admire most about him, and will carry him far in life. I don't want my kids to do things to please me. I want them to please themselves. The poster referred to in the article- encouraging Princeton students to sign up for something to make their parents happy- that's reeeeaally scary.</p>
<p>I agree, doubleplay, and I think the colleges are getting tired of the Stepford kids, too. I sensed a shift from college admssion's counselors this year from when my D appied three years ago. They seem to be looking harder for the genuine article rather than the resume builder, and if they succeed, this alone could change the culture.</p>
<p>One thing though - American parents are realizing that Sally and Johnnie are competing with the world now, not just with those from the other side of the rockies. I think some of the competitiveness comes from the insecurity of having to go head to head with the Asian students, as well as other internationals, who are often better prepared than kids from long-standing U.S. families. The Asian kids feel it too, and are being told not to highlight their excellence in math or love of computers because it's "too asian." The whole thing is pretty nuts.
I have hopes that the pendulum is swinging a bit toward normalcy.
Maybe I'm wrong, but so many of whom I would consider the "normal"kids, not the resume building ones, got into great colleges in my son's class-even without a lot of APs or big leadership positions, or summer internships. It seems that the kids of pushy parents didn't fare nearly as well as the independent mavericks this year - but may this year or our school is an anomaly.</p>
<p>
[quote]
so many of whom I would consider the "normal"kids, not the resume building ones, got into great colleges in my son's class-even without a lot of APs or big leadership positions, or summer internships. It seems that the kids of pushy parents didn't fare nearly as well as the independent mavericks this year - but may this year or our school is an anomaly.
[/quote]
Interesting. The same trend occurred in our high school this year. The kids who got into the best schools were not the kids anyone would have pegged, and the ones who everyone thought were destined to have to choose from HPYS got rejected at all their first and many (and in one case all) of their second choices. It almost seems as though college admissions folks are getting better at sniffing out the Stepford/Organization Kids. It's a shame, really, because some of them, left to their own devices and not following a grand plan since preschool, might have experienced a much happier April--most are great kids, very smart, very capable, and like Cabbage Patch dolls. They come in different colors, but they all look mostly the same on the outside.</p>
<p>Interesting posts. My d is stubborn as a mule and hates "suck-ups." I couldn't get her to "package" herself if I tried. She does, however, understand that all her choices & decisions have consequences.</p>
<p>My doctor recently revealed to me that his college age son emails his term papers to the Dr.'s wife for editing. The kid is a sophomore in college!</p>
<p>My parents have never checked my homework or even told me to do it. They read to me when I was little but never forced me to read once I became older. They clearly respected the idea of education and schoolwork, but my approach to school was always up to me. They had faith in me to want to work hard and learn. I used to get in trouble during grade school for reading novels during class, and my dad just said, "If you think you can learn more from reading a book than listening, go ahead and read." I'm a senior in high school now, and I think that one of the best gifts my parents have given me is my own strong work ethic. </p>
<p>I work for my own satisfaction, not to please anyone else. I was surprised sophomore year when my honors English teacher took a poll of the class, "Who here would get in trouble if they didn't get good grades?" Nearly everyone in the class raised his or her hand. My parents honestly wouldn't care. Then she said, "Who here tries to get good grades in order to please their parents or avoid getting in trouble." Nearly everybody raised his or hand. Kids need to do things for their own satisfaction, not for the satisfaction of the parents. Otherwise, what are they going to do when get into the "real world?"</p>
<p>mkm56, our son was the same, took the SAT twice and studied very little for it and for the same reason. He wanted a score that more closely reflected his aptitude. We to never reviewed homeworks or papers. The only significant help he received was for his CompSci AB final project failed under a certain type of boundary conditions. He was in "meltdown" mode after several hours of futile debugging and my wife stepped in to show him a technique she used to debug her system programs. By 3am, bingo-problem solved. </p>
<p>The only rule we had frosh and soph year was that he had to set aside 2 hrs/nite for homework with no phone, IM, tv, etc. The discipline he learned through that simple rule has served him well, though now it is far more than 2 hours per day. It really taught him how to concentrate on academic work without extraneous distractions. During finals week he inverts his schedule, sleeping during the day or evening and working through the nite when most everyone else in the apartment is asleep.</p>
<p>There is too much pressure on teens today. There is more competition for spots in the colleges and later in jobs. Until that changes, parents are going to push their children to their limits. I've always tried to do the opposite but it's not easy. If the parents aren't pushing them, their teachers are. Whoever said the work we turned in back in our school days would be considered C work today is right. We weren't expected to be perfect, we were in school to learn. It's not fair to the children today to expect perfection. Eventually it's going to catch up with them, either in college or when they find themselves in jobs that mean nothing to them 20 years from now because they spent so much effort getting there, they didn't take the time to know themselves or what they really wanted out of life.</p>
<p>MrsP not all students are under any more pressure today. I know our son wasn't. He was expected to take school seriously but not to get all A's. He didn't like Spanish so stopped at Spanish 3. Didn't study a second for the PSAT's and only a few hours for the SAT's. The EC's he participated in were chosen because he enjoyed them. But he did take hs seriously enough and was a relatively low maintenance kid.</p>
<p>He never went to a CTY course or summer enrichment because he preferred to lifeguard at the lake and hang out with his friends.</p>
<p>We neither insisted or suggested that he apply to the most selective colleges. And the one's he chose to apply to were an eclectic mix of LAC and universities which were a good academic match for him.</p>
<p>I think that he led a very normal and relatively stress free high school life where he had lots of fun, friends who were good kids, with increasingly less rules as he went along. He had no curfew senior year except that he had to be home by midnite on school nites.</p>
<p>By the time college came he was a mature young man ready for the challenges and temptations of freshman year. He had one alcohol related disciplinary hiccup but that seems to have been it. He has managed to manage his time and academic responsiblilites very, very well. </p>
<p>Keep the faith and IMHO the good parenting MrsP.</p>
<p>Well, my S was a low maintenance kid. BUT he wanted to go to CTY and to a summer math camp for the joy of doing math all day. Not much possibility of exercizing teenage rebellion in either place. But if I had suggested lolling by the pool all summer, I would certainly have had a major rebellion on my hands.</p>
<p>I really think it depends on the kid how much helping you have to do (or hovering.) One son was a self-starter in every way, managing his own time, doing what needed to be done (if sometimes in the wee hours of the night) and getting the good grades he deserved. Another son was until fairly recently immature (you might say lazy) and had to be watched like a hawk or he would not do that which needed to be done in the subjects he wasn't so fond of. I hate to think it but he probably would have flunked out of high school if he were born in different circumstances to parents who just didn't care, or in a neighborhood where there were attractive alternatives to going to school every day. At times I had to be a cheerleader for him and sometimes I used "tough love." Call me a helicopter parent, but I sure wasn't going to let a brilliant kid destroy himself academically because of something I was sure he would outgrow. Eventually. </p>
<p>I'm still wondering what was going through his head some of those times. Did he think he would get by on his looks? </p>
<p>Now he is looking forward to going to the fairly nerdy school of his choice. And I am looking forward to the next 4 years with last child at home, the one who has always done his homework cheerfully to get it "out of the way." Whew!</p>
<p>And I agree with the OP. I was never pushing my son to be in activities, just to follow through with obligations he himself had made. And he didn't have to be the best writer in the class, just do the dam paper and hand it in!</p>
<p>I sometimes worry about how much is too much. My daughter is an average student with a nice talent in biology. She leaves the house at 7:05 am, commutes to school (about 40 minutes), goes to school and then track practice from 3-5, then work from 6-10 three nights a week. Saturdays usually involve a track meet off the Island and Sunday mornings from 9-12 she teaches Sunday School and volunteers in church, and goes to youth group from 6-8 pm and is President, which requires a lot of time. She volunteered 140+ hours this year and did a biochemistry internship last summer that she will do again this summer. I'm glad she's involved and hardworking, but I really wonder how much is too much. None of what she does is unusual and lots of kids do more, but when do they relax and daydream?</p>
<p>I am not in favor of kids working during the school year, unless the family really needs the money. Too often they work to make money to burn on movies, clothes, & gas in the car which they would not <em>need</em> if they were not working. </p>
<p>I tell my kids, your "job" is to go to school and do your best work there. Fortunately, none of them were much interested in pop culture or consumerism. Most of their birthday money has been spent on computer accessories.</p>
<p>The important thing is: is your child happy? Is she healthy? Does she look stressed to you? Does she love her activities? Would she be happy curtailing them? </p>
<p>One week after returning from camp, my S would complain of boredom. If the camp had lasted longer, he would have happily stayed on.</p>
<p>Mommusic - your line to your kids about school being your job, is exactly what my dad said to all 7 of his kids. No one was supposed to hold a job during school year while in HS. Summer jobs beginning at age 16 were okay, but nothing during the school year.
Consumerism and marketing were alot less prevalent back then, though, so perhaps the "need" for spending $ was less.</p>
<p>Yes she's really happy and has chosen her activities and job with care. She scoops ice cream at the local ice cream parlor from April to October. Unfortunately, we can't give her spending money beyond purchasing her lunch every day, so if she wants to do anything she has to earn some cash. She doesn't seem stressed, but I do worry.</p>
<p>I have one of them, graduating next week. I felt like my job was to make sure he graduated from HS and got into some kind of college. However, that being done, college is all on him. I've been trying to nag less as the years have gone on, but had to balance that out with making sure he mad it successfully through his 12 years. Like you, I didn't want him to make devastating mistakes due to problems he is now growing out of.</p>
<p>However, although I believe that completing HS is somewhat of a parent's responsibility, college is not. There are other pathways to success, and I have told him that he is embarking on only one of them this fall. He can make of it what he wants, or explore alternatives if he doesn't think college is for him. The only thing he can't do is come home and lay on my sofa!!</p>
<p>(and my youngest is low-maintenance too--I feel like I have just graduated from HS too, since he doesn't need all my help)</p>
<p>I do think parents "position" their children way too much, and the stress on many kids is unbelievable. Life is more than grades and too many activities...for some kids.</p>
<p>I do think there are kids who do well uberbusy, and those who don't. The sad part is that some parents can't tell how much the busy-ness and stress is affecting their kids until the kid implodes.</p>