Parents and the Academy

<p>Some feel that parents are much too involved at the Academy. Perhaps, in some instances that is true. In many instances, however, if parents were not vigilant taxpayers, it seems needed change would not occur.</p>

<p>There is quite a bit of "back-story" to this letter that others may want to fill-in. If you are not familiar with the root of this story, then you should know this was an instance clear incompetence, mis-diagnosis, and probably negligence that required a parent to become involved. The administration sure didn't seem to be concerned. Mids have complained of poor service at Brigade Medical for some time and no changes seemed to be forthcoming. It was only after a parent wrote thier Senator and "created a stink" that the following investigations were made.</p>

<p>I would be curious to hear the Admininistration's side of this story but I am sure they would cite patient privacy and national security as preventing a comment.
Interesting.</p>

<p>I wanted to update the listserve:
1.I just received a letter from our senator, Gordon Smith, that
enclosed
a letter from Admiral Jeffries. In the letter the Admiral discussed my
son's treatment at Bridgage Medical and detailed how the clinical
protocols and standard operating procedures were not followed. He wrote
that as a result of our direct complaint, the senators inquiry, and
information from parents in the USNAparent listserve, an investigation
had been launched in general about Brigage Medical. They conducted an
all-day safety stand down that encompassed all aspects of patient care,
patient saefty, clinic protocols and changes in clinic practice. From
this experience, they were able to determine that the Brigade Medical
TRIAGE process has been problematic. They are "actively" seeking
appropriate resolutions for access to care as well as continuous
improvements in the quality of care delivery. Specifically, it seems
that if a midshipman goes to Brigade Medical afterhours, they will now
have the ability to ask for a "direct" evaluation by a duty priviledged
provider such as a physician's assistant (not the corpsman).
2. We had suggested that the weekend hours should be increased due to
the fact that many of the midshipmen do not have the opportunity to go
during the week. In the letter, Admiral Jeffries indicated that any
revision of operating hours will be communicated to midshipmen via the
Commandant's Office. I do not know if any changes have been made in
this
regard.
3.In his conclusion, he stated that if any other assistance is needed,
please contact him.</p>

<p>I am glad that BRIGAGE MEDICAL has been evaluated more closely and
apparently some changes have been made w/ the protocol and treatment. I
really appreciate everyones support with issue. Hopefully the
midshipmen
will benefit from these changes</p>

<p>Personally, I never had any issues with Brigade Medical over my four years. I think the closest thing was when I needed to see a doctor and the "on call" doc was a 3 hour drive away so I just headed to Hospital Point. Inconvienant, but whatever... That being said, I've had friends who had horror stories over their care from Brigade Medical which usually stemmed from a fairly blatant mis-diagnosis... Ironically, much of the Brigade only trusted one doctor... Ronan</p>

<p>I am glad to see there was some success in this instance. But, where do parents draw the line with their involvement. When their child, now a commissioned officer does not get satisfactory medical care from the first claa corpsman on his/her delpoyed ship will the parents call the Admiral? If the commissioned officer has the duty over the Xmas holidays and cannot come home, will the parents call the commanding officer? Just make sure that involvement is warranted, and in this case it looks like it was. I hope the Mids chain of command was informed of the letter to the Senator. The military does follow one, and they do not like surprises.</p>

<p>You make a good point point. Parents tend to get very involved with the Academy because of the nature of the Academy, however there has to be a point where you let go. I've had roomates who's parents called everyday. Seriously, the best parent is one who talks to their mid 1/2 times a week and doesn't try and take over their problems.</p>

<p>In this instance there was a serious mis-diagnosis by the Corpsman. The root of the problem was not the competence of the medical doctors but of the incompetence or ignrorance of the corpsman who initially receive the complaint. I think corpsman competence had been spoken about by the Brigade for some time. Presumably, brought to the attention of the chain of command. If so, the complaint was ignored. If not, then mids must not understand or believe that the chain of command is responsive. [See food fiasco from last year.]</p>

<p>I would like to think--although it may be ignorant on my part--that most parents--probably more like 98% of parents--can distinguish between becoming involved in how a minor is being medically treatetd and whether or not an adult officer should recive time off for Christmas. But, maybe not. </p>

<p>With regard to speaking w/ a mid everyday, the mid is certainly capable of controlling that situation. Granted, it seems a bit excessive to me also, but, maybe, the calls are at the mid's request or desire.</p>

<p>From my experiences, the chain of command is not always followed. In my multiple billets on training staffs there were multiple times where our company officer would get called becasue of plebes telling their parents they were getting singled out. Yes they were getting singled out but it was not becuase of discrimination, it was because of their actions. Sea trials where parents were invited changed so that the plebes would look like they were successful in front of them. It became a show instead of military training.</p>

<p>Parents should be proud that their son/daughter is a mid. It is a great honor. Where the line usually gets blurred is when the parents forget that this is military training, and a different environment where their children are going to have things happen that are not easy. </p>

<p>The instance with medical is one that could have been solved through the chain of command. As an officer in the fleet, that is part of your responsibility, ensuring that your Marines/sailors are not getting the run around by medical. I am sure that no company officer would ignore a problem as described above. Instead of fixing the problem at the lowest level, there is now a flag officer looking over their shoulder. Yes this did solve the problem but it is a bad way to do it. </p>

<p>If the calls are at the mids request then that midshipmen needs another class on the purpose of the chain of command.</p>

<p>grad/dad, navy2007, itlstallion; thanks for putting things in perspective.</p>

<p>
[quote]

If the calls are at the mids request then that midshipmen needs another class on the purpose of the chain of command.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Or he might have died from a delay in treatment, stemming from a misdiagnosis- and not need the class at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But, where do parents draw the line with their involvement.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good question.</p>

<p>I thought it was the day they entered Alumni Hall and take their Oath of Office. </p>

<p>Then again, I was under the belief they would be fed and cared for. Or that should by son/daugher be seriously injured, that I, the parent, would be notified. Unfortunately, there have been several occurances that have erroded that trust for some- and in doing so, blurred the line for many.</p>

<p>This was one case. Up the COC from what the parent reported. The food issue was another. The third occurance was the death of a Midshipman, and the excessive delay in notification of the parents. From all accounts, all reported up the COC- the outcomes speak for themselves. </p>

<p>I am not convinced that it is a matter of putting things in perspective, in so far as it is a matter of improving the communication within the COC. IMO, parents come in willing to trust the system- until it fails them or the ones they love.</p>

<p>Yes sometimes the chain of command fails. This from my experience is very rare. I remember multiple times when my company officer/SEL would call down to medical in order to get a mid another appointment or a more reasonable one. </p>

<p>The instance I heard of with the failure to notify the parents of the midn's death is unacceptable, however I have not heard of that before this. Athough this was a failure, when other midshipman have died and others been hospitalized in the past, the chain of command worked perfectly. This failure tells me that perhaps there is more training needed for the chain of command in order to ensure when information is passed it is passed to the correct person in a timely manner. I am sure that following the incident where the family was not notified, the entire chain of command was horrified by it. It does not take a parent going to their congressman to fix it. If it is a recurring problem then maybe.</p>

<p>So where do parents draw the line? In my opinion contacting the congressman is the last choice. If this midshipman exhausted all options including bringing it up directly to the supt in one of the class calls, and the commandant in the comment box and still no action then yes, it would be acceptable. The problem is that we are allowing midshipmen, technically junior officers to allow their parents to do their work for them. If it is a huge problem, why is it the parents contacting the congressman? </p>

<p>When your son/daughter is an 2ndLt/Ensign and there is not enough food in the chow hall is it the parents job then? How about that 18 year old Pfc, should his parents be calling? Not if I am doing my job. Based on the training about troop welfare at the academy and the training I know from first hand experience the Marine officers receive at TBS, I can not imagine there is an officer at the academy who would not take over the fight in order to ensure their people are getting proper medical care and enough food. When it comes down to this this and mission accomplishment are the most important jobs as an officer.</p>

<p>-In addition to what I posted above after thinking about it a little more.
The main problem I see is from my experience of being a midshipman. We all like to complain about everything, including medical and food but very rarely did any of us proactively do anything about it. It is much easier to complain to parents than to use the chain of command simply because it takes much less work. During supts and dants calls we would not ask these questions because we were more interested in getting out of there and back to our rooms. Once again the fear I have is that midshipmen will use this as an easy way out.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>07, I think you have said it all. Parents would do well to read and understand exactly what you have said. Rarely, the system does fail, very rarely. Most of the time, there is another side to the story. The CACO instance was unfortunate, but not unacceptable. Navy regulations require NOK to be notified in person by a trained officer. They may be quick but no way are they faster than a cell phone. The midshipmen were probably briefed plebe summer about this procedure but it meant nothing in a hypothetical situation.</p>

<p>As Bill0510 noted, there’s a back story to this event – since I can’t recall details perfectly, I won’t try to repeat them – but it’s a compelling situation. The short version is that a corpsman laughed this woman’s son out of Brigade Medical, he returned to Bancroft, collapsed, and literally could have died had his roommates not acted quickly and intelligently. The mother who took on this situation is my hero. </p>

<p>Navy07, thank you for your service and for the wisdom you bring to these discussions. I respectfully suggest that while, on most topics, your experiences are far more current and relevant than the rest of ours, this time you’re missing a key training block: You’re not a mid’s parent. </p>

<p>This is not about calling too often, wanting your kid home for holidays, or interfering w/ Sea Trails. It’s about a human life. A son’s life. From a strictly analytical perspective, it’s about protecting and maintaining valuable Navy resources. And if the media’s coverage of the food shortage irked you, ask yourself what kind of press USNA would have earned had this kid died after Medical turned him away. </p>

<p>My mid’s been ridiculed and misdiagnosed in Brigade Medical, but he didn’t believe a broken toe or bronchitis merited a COC complaint. His call to make, not mine. But he’s not done @ USNA. He could be the next ruptured appendix, and I want to believe he’ll be properly treated. </p>

<p>As I said, this mother is my hero.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Well, my hero is a young man who joined the Navy for whatever reason, became a Corpsman, knowing that many or most Corpsmen end up with the FMF. Through no fault of his own, with whatever experience and education he had accumulated, he was placed on Brigade Medical watch. He made a decision based on the knowledge which he possessed at the time. It was not his fault that Navy manning or budget did not allow a MD on duty full time. He did the best he could with what resources he had available. He is a vital member of the Navy 'team'. A few of you parents obviously don't realize this. It is the ability of your midshipman to adapt to the system, not the ability of the system to accommodate your kid.</p>

<p>For whatever reason, the COC was not properly utilized. Would that have brought the situation to a satisfactory conclusion, I would hope so. For that is the responsibility of the COC. I am sorry that Brigade medical is the only hospital or doctor that has ever made a wrong diagnosis. If I remember correctly, it was a parent who notified the other parents about the unfortunate death of their daughter. The reason for the delay is that the Navy has a process to ensure that the notification is properly conducted. I have no idea why there was a delay. But it is important to understand that the Navy is not new at notifying people about the loss of a love one. It is an almost daily occurrence, and is done in a caring and expeditious manner. How many times do we read articles in the news or hear on the television that identification of the person is pending notification of the next of kin. If your sons or daughters get the opportunity to have Command, they will also have the oppotunity to answer Congressional inquiries that ususally show up Friday morning with an answer due by 1600. They too, will probably have no idea about the issue, but will have 8 hours to get an answer to pass up the COC, wondering why someone would call their congressman about something when they could have easily solved the problem via the COC.</p>

<p>Northerncalmom
I know that I am not a midshipman's parent. I am however an officer and as an officer I know that I, and any other halfway competent officer would not have stood for the way this midshipman was treated. At the same time an officer can not be everywhere at all times and they need to be informed when stuff like this happens. From my initial counseling with a new Marine arriving at my unit one of my first questions is if they are having any trouble with base housing or medical with them or their family. The question is not about fixing the problem, because it did need to be fixed. The question is about how you need to go about fixing the problem. </p>

<p>"My mid’s been ridiculed and misdiagnosed in Brigade Medical, but he didn’t believe a broken toe or bronchitis merited a COC complaint. His call to make, not mine. But he’s not done @ USNA. He could be the next ruptured appendix, and I want to believe he’ll be properly treated"<br>
Unless they are treating officers like this in brigade medical how is your son's company officer supposed to know? How are they supposed to fix an issue that mids do not tell them about?</p>

<p>Yes, the corpman may need more training, or medical may be understaffed. It is the responsible of the officer/OIC/SNOIC to fix the problem for their Marines/Sailors/Midshipmen. If my command received a congressional complaint without being notified of the problem, life would not be good for the person who initiated it. As an officer it is my responsiblity to ensure my Marines are taken care of. No matter what, even if I assign somebody else I am the Marines platoon commander and it is my responsibility. I will be held accountable. There are many things in the military which can be improved upon, and it is the chain of commands responsibility to bring this about.</p>

<p>When your son is an officer do you expect him to be able to fight for his Marines/Sailors to ensure they are getting proper medical care or do you expect all of the Marines/Sailors parents to call their congressman.</p>

<p>I feel like my Marines are my family. If one of them died or was seriously ill because of my inaction I would never forgive myself. I am not saying you should not be concerned but that you need to have faith in the chain of command, and at the same time the mids have to be willing to use it. I expect my 18 year old Pfcs to use it so I would expect an officer candidate who it a couple years maybe months away from be in charge of them to use it as well.</p>

<p>I know as a parent I would be very upset about the situation with the misdiagnosed midshipman, however what needs to be done before initiating a congressional investigation is to give the chain of command a chance. As a parent ensure it has been used and given that chance before going to that level.</p>

<p>I want to preface my comments by acknowledging my understanding of specific events and issues under discussion is limited to what I have read here. </p>

<p>If you changed the location of these events to Johns Hopkins, or some other major medical center would the fact that a misdiagnosis occurred on any level beginning with those rendered by an MD be of any surprise? Please understand as a parent of a Mid I’m not pointing this out to excuse or diminish the potential consequence of what could have been a tragedy. The reality is Medicine is an imprecise science that places a great deal of responsibility in the hands of those that pursue such a career. It’s not an easy job and more often than not it’s a thankless one. Brigade Medical is going to be no more or less infallible than any other institution when it comes to providing such a service within the constraints of it’s budget. The difference in the case of the Naval Academy comes down to the accepted process for dealing with such a situation when it might arise. </p>

<p>I think one of the other aspects of this that further complicates the relationship between parents and the Academy relates to perceptions, or perhaps a lack of comprehension about the nature of the Naval Academy, and what it exists to do. There are also postings under other current subjects that illustrate the differences in how those with military service and alumni view subjects in contrast to parents whose primary association with the Academy exists only through their child. </p>

<p>On behalf of parents, consider the great job the Academy does marketing itself. We hear about the great education, the number of Rhodes Scholars, the comparisons to Ivies, the traditions of Navy Football… is it so great a surprise when some parents view the Naval Academy as something analogous to a University that happens to produce Naval Officers upon graduation? Parents refer to their son or daughter “attending the Naval Academy”, I can’t say I’ve heard too many respond with “they’re in the Navy”, though when it comes to the processes for dealing with issues through the chain of command, that is much closer to the truth. </p>

<p>Most parents are also advocates for their “children”, a role that have acted in and accepted with varying degrees of enthusiasm for the first 18+ years of their son or daughter’s life. It’s a difficult role to shed especially when you find your son/daughter is in distress. Outside of life threatening events I would hope most parents realize your child ultimately learns more from failure than success.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am sorry that Brigade medical is the only hospital or doctor that has ever made a wrong diagnosis.

[/quote]

grad/dad you hit the nail on the head with this one. I gather from reading the above posts this is about a mid whose appendix ruptured.
Navy2010 as a medical professional, you should know that appendicitis is one of if not THE most over/under diagnosed medical condition. I know a mom whose daughter was sent home by a surgeon and then the appendix ruptured. I have also known a kid who was opened up with a healthy appendix.
Good for this mid's roommate to recognize when a stomach ache turned into a medical emergency. Sounds heroic to me.</p>

<p>You beat me to it, JAM. TWO of my Plebe's grade school classmates suffered ruptured appendices due to incorrect diagnoses. Fortunately, both survived, but only after extended hospitalization, etc.</p>

<p>I feel if the mid went straight to his company officer/SEL this event would not have happened because they would have gotten the situation taken care of that day.</p>

<p>I have asked the question before without a satisfactory answer. How can a parent so intent in finding fault, continue to support their son or daughter in their military careers? Do they not realize that those with whom they have no understanding, have no compassion, are so quick to find fault, even if it is with ignorance of facts, are a part of the self same system that their sons are daughters will be entering and sworn to support. They will come back to the Academy as company officers and perform exactly as the ones there now, the ones who have mismanaged next of kin notification, the ones who have allowed the mids under them to starve, wasting away to nothing, and the ones who allow incompetent medical attention to their charges. Should you become less critical and more open minded, you will find that the Navy is composed of dedicated, highly competent individuals who do the best they can with the resources they have. I think this is a corollary of the latest adage; "I support the troops but not the war." A very difficult if not impossible concept. Should you become less quick to condemn and more patient to understand the true picture, you will find that you will be correct about 99% of the time instead of being totally wrong all the time. Quit being cynical helicopter parents and commence displaying the "I'm a Navy Mom" bumper stickers with pride.</p>