I don’t remember anyone asking this question, but it was mentioned on the retirement thread. How much cash should we have on hand to pay for Dad’s funeral, probate expenses, taxes? My sister and I have a joint account with my D, and she wants me to spend it down to zero before replenishing with other invested assets. However, I feel as if we need a cushion for the expenses mentioned above and the last few months of caregiving which are paid through a credit card with a 30-day grace period. I know exactly how much the caregiving would be and the timing of those payments, but do not have a clue about the funeral, probate expenses and taxes, etc.?
Any thoughts? Does it vary by geographic location?
Funeral expenses can vary greatly @BerneseMtnMom. We cremated my mom but because of Covid 19 didn’t have the funeral service yet. A simple cremation with copies of the death certificates and all the fees was nearly $1000. A full funeral with viewing, transportation, casket rental, etc… was over $8K. And yes it depends on your location.
Our attorney told us to expect about $5K for probate legal expenses so if there is a way to change will documents to avoid probate, it may be worth doing.
As far as taxes, that totally depends on your parents’ location, home, assets, etc…
FWIW, my dad changed the beneficiaries of his primary accounts to my brother and I to avoid probate so there would be money to pay for all the upfront stuff. He knows we’ll have to carry his condo for a while before it sells so wanted there to be easy access to funds to pay utilities as well as taxes, HOA fees, etc…He also put my name on his safety deposit box.
Having just experienced this, I would say that funeral expenses vary by location and the choice of services provided by the funeral home and the cemetery. I can say that here in the suburbs of NYC, with no visitation, chapel services, transportation to the cemetery (other than the hearse) or elaborate casket, my MIL’s funeral expenses ran close to $8-10,000. Probate expenses and estate taxes will depend on the size of the estate and type of assets involved.
Sorry, cross-posted with @momofsenior1.
Agree, there’s a huge range. It also depends on the family and individuals involved. For some families, it would be very small and private while for others huge and more public service. I would think $25,000 would be a good amount while others would consider that way too much or too little for funds prior to getting appointed as executor.
I am personal representative of my brother’s estate. Cremation and memorial (including paying for 3 plane tickets and lunch) was 4,500. I paid about 6,400 out of my pocket to cover expenses until I got access to his funds. Probate cost is $500 for an estate valued at under 500k. I am doing all of the filing myself because an attorney said his typical estate fee is around 8,000 and I didn’t want to pay that. The funeral, flowers, lunch for my mother in law was about 16,000. Not sure of the other expenses. My sister in law was on one of the accounts so had immediate access to funds.
I recently pre-planned and pre-paid my mom’s service in the Chicago area and spent around $13-14k. I prefer cremation, but gave her what she would want, the same thing we did for my dad. I pre-paid so my siblings wouldn’t have to worry about that aspect if something happened to me first, which I often feel may be the case. (I’m POA, mom has dementia, and two of the three are not involved with our mom in any way.)
The estate can’t close without paying federal/state taxes, but I didn’t experience needing to pay, eg, funeral costs, up front. Maybe google for your state.
@BerneseMtnMom
Yes, varies. Funeral could be $10,000. Probate taxes or fees may depend on value of estate and local, state laws regarding estates. To determine value, may need professional appraisal of real property, collectibles, jewelry, car. May need accountant or lawyer to fill out state or federal taxes, get death certificates, contact creditors or close out accounts.
Funerals are not cheap, but it’s all about what you choose to pay. The biggest thing I would tell you is that arranging the costs ahead can save you dramatically. When my parent died I had called in and made arrangements for a cremation for something like $600-800, but had not done paperwork as it all happened too soon. When they picked up the body and I went in, the paperwork showed $2500.
When I asked about the crazy increase, they gave me the special “phone in” rate. Which also means they only give that to people who ask ahead! Creepy 
@lookingforward Funeral homes want their money, whether prepaid or at time of death. My sister and I prepaid (thousands of dollars) for my mom , made arrangements, picked out the casket, etc. , when she entered hospice. Thought everything was taken care of. Informed the morning of the funeral by the funeral director that we still had to pay the cemetery fee to open the gravesite. My sister had to go home and get a check , totally ridiculous and upsetting at a stressful time. Why we just weren’t informed about this charge so that we could have just paid it in advance is still beyond me.
We thought my mother in law prepaid everything but in that instance, she had not paid for a marker, which to get the one like FIL had ended up being over $2000. So, check what is and is not included in costs that are presented.
My sister gave a $500 check to a funeral home to expedite getting the body of my mother’s last caretaker out of the morgue (she died unexpectedly in her 50’s about a year after my mother died). I kicked in 100 bucks myself to help with cremation costs when her family did not seem to be able to come up with the costs. Funeral expenses are big business!
It also depends on what expenses the family/estate choose to cover. In our case, everyone has always had to handle own travel expenses and never expected any reimbursement. Obviously that can be different for other families, how much is prepaid can vary, and each venue has its own costs.
You have to explore each facet and Caveat Emptor. Of course, funeral homes are a business and want to be paid. But state rules and oversight can vary re: exactly how it’s done.
The point is, (from my perspective,) there is no one size fits all. Not exactly. Like a wedding. Basics and options.
My MIL, grandmother, mother were 2k or less. No fancy services or collations. GFather was a little more because we did the gravesite, cars, choir, and more. What the deceased possess and the event you want to offer dictate a lot.
A state that has special rules about burials or cremations will have different processes and charges. You can google a lot for an individual state or engage a local attorney. None of my people except one had major debt/assets tangible property, etc. Different counties in AZ (3 moved there for the weather and senior ease) have different rules re “small estates.” The amount covered my mother but would not be considered “small” where I live.
For one other, with real property and a car,) I was executrix and went through probate with an attorney who wrote me a step by step list. He charged 2k. Worth it, to be guided. The funeral home chared about 3k, but we had them do some things I could have done.
Good luck. But it is like a wedding, in the sense of some mandatory and some choices.
Agree—also one of our big savings was my FIL bought a one-premium insurance policy that had his remains returned to HI as the policy benefit. We didn’t have to pay for that expense.
All the estates I have been connected with had real estate and some other assets. When there was a surviving spouse, it was pretty easy. When there wasn’t the case, complexity could vary. In one case, the executor was a law grad that never took the bar (SO of cousin) and had been executor several times. He was excellent at making sure all the loose ends were nearly tied up and assets distributed, but it took years, literally, and a lot of work on his part.
Having some liquid assets to help pay expenses is helpful in any case. My SisIL had set up a checking account that executor was able to use to pay expenses. He kept a good spreadsheet of all expenses.
Thanks to everyone for their input. This is just what I was looking for.
Well, today, I was back at Costco Audio, trying once again to get them to adjust mom’s hearing aids that I tried to get them to adjust on Tuesday. This time, I got the technician I really like, who seems most skilled of all their workers. I made her understand that the hearing aids were being worn by my MOM, so she had an “aha” moment and was able to adjust them accordingly she they won’t have so much irritating feedback as they were. I believe her inner ear may be smaller than dad’s or at least differently shaped, so she may have swapped out the attachment to fit mom’s ears better.
After she finished, I rushed over to mom and had her try on the hearing aids and YAY–no feedback! It’s a great relief that she has hearing aids she can wear easily and they don’t make that awful buzzing! Best of all, Costco didn’t charge anything for the adjustments and I bought several items there that were things we can use in our household.
The technicians even converted a right hearing aid to the left side, since mom had two right sided hearing aids, both of which had been my dad’s (but he doesn’t need them in heaven).
So after being home after visiting my mother she decides to have her blood pressure go very low, didn’t feel right, dizzy and nausea and other symptoms so she had a central line put in in ICU and they regulated her blood pressure. I am having the cardiac unit reevaluate her meds. She’s on way too many and it seems whenever she leaves the hospital there are some to take “if needed”. I mean why take medicine A that can cause dizziness then take medication B for the dizziness that can also cause C and so on. Right now they have her on the bare minimum drugs and she’s doing fine. The nurse told me all the doctors are impressed since she asks a lot of questions and some of them are not superficial questions about her health and the drugs she’s on. They realize they need to spend “time” with her and not just rush through. I told the nurse that she really needs to understand the “why” of what their doing and she said she has never had a 91 year old ask so many intelligent questions.
I tell the nurses all the time don’t treat her like a 91 year old. She hates when the young doctors talk down to her. Just explain things so she can understand them and she’s fine.
Over the years I really feel doctors need to have more training with talking to geriatric patients. Coming in and talking medical to a patient doesn’t make sense. We actually one time made a 3rd year resident sit down and explain somethings
It worked out great and he thanked us for doing it.
Yes, I agree! And don’t assume that every elderly patient is not intelligent. And PLEASE, if we tell you our dad should be addressed as “Dr.” and not “Mr.,” please make a note of it on his chart and DO IT! It sounds so weird to hear Dad addressed as “Mr.”
In happy news, Dad is about to be taken out of hospice and will drop his nighttime caregiver, with the blessings of his patient advocate and my sister. It’s hard to believe.
I just found out my parents place is without power for 2 days now. We had wicked storms here and there are trees down everywhere, but I guess I thought a relatively new building would be okay. I can’t imagine what they are doing for meals and the director just told me it’s 75 degrees in there currently. And no lights at night? My parents must be so confused.
@Mainelonghorn wow. Your Dad is amazing.
@surfcity, no generator?
@compmom, I stopped by because they asked me to do my folks’ laundry since they have no power and are behind on everything. They do have a big generator running but I assume that is for the kitchen and some vital things. My friend’s mom is on oxygen and they have special outlets powered by the generator too.
I found out that there was a mixup at the county level and the emergency services did not have this facility listed as a personal care one, so it did not receive priority status. I think that is changing because we got the state rep involved. It’s very new and all power lines are buried but I think this storm was so freaky that it did more damage than typical. Even the local hospital was on generators for a day.
On a related note, I found a pair of pants in the laundry that are definitely not my mom’s 