Parents, I need your advice. What do you think of this exchange between me and my dad?

So I just came out of a breakdown in front of my dad as he told me that I HAVE to work hard to become a doctor and go into med-school or there’s no point in studying at all for college.

He asked me for the thousandth time “do you even want to go into pre-med?” and I answered him honestly.

“I don’t know if I even want to go to med school anymore.”

Why I answered this way? Because biology doesn’t excite me the way it excites him. He studied hard in Pakistan while I studied here in the US. I tried to explain to him that we basically grew up in two different worlds, but he brushed it off as nonsense.

After my response came a guilt trip attempt. He described that if this was how I honestly felt, he shouldn’t have to waste his time and energy and life on me anymore. He can sell the house we all currently live in, move far away, and die without worrying about us anymore. We can wreck this house, he claimed, I don’t care. I became scared of that reality, so to appease him I told him I would study for med school (despite me not being nearly as interested in biology).

Sometimes I think parents don’t know how to do their jobs as parents, so they project an image of fear into their children so as for them to perceive their parents as superiors rather than equals. Is that what you have been told? I’m just living by the commands of my father, as I have been for the past 18 years, and see him not as a human, but as my god.

I suggest you talk to a counselor who in turn can help with what is essentially a cultural clash problem. It would seem that where your father came from, being a doctor is one of the few routes to prestige and a good living. That is not necessarily true in the U.S. Many parents in this country would want you to study what you are interested in and are good at. But even that is no longer universal due to the cost of college and large loans.

I hope you can find someone to talk to who could mediate this, someone familiar with this kind of situation. You need help figuring this out- in person. I do not want to question family values, only let you know that their are many families with different ones. I hope you can work things out so you can follow a path of your choosing, but clearly that is also a cultural value, and it would be so much easier if somehow your wishes and your father’s could align.

I would take a break and wait a day or so for him and you to calm down.

What I would do next might depend upon things that you haven’t told us yet.

Are you interested in engineering or computer science? The best paying jobs with just a bachelor’s degree are for computer science and the various forms of engineering. A master’s degree is optional for either. You can get a very well paying job and do very well in life with a degree in these areas. If you like math and like the idea of either engineering or computer science, then you might want to ask him what he would think of those as possible majors. I know quite a few people who majored in either computer science, or math, or some form of engineering, and ended up over time doing just as well financially or better than the average doctor, and they did it without taking on medical school debt.

Also, you could also talk this over quietly with your mother and see if she has some perspective on the issue.

It sounds like your father wants you to study something in university that leads to a strong career. Medicine is one option that leads to a well paying career, but it is not the only option.

Thousands of students can’t get into medical schools. What would Dad say if you didn’t get in?

You can then requote him and say:
We “can sell the house we all currently live in, move far away, and die without worrying about us anymore. We can wreck this house, he claimed, I don’t care.”
But seriously it’s his dream, not yours, so go as cheaply as you can to school. Save him his precious dollars.

You know that he can’t access your coursework or grades. As an adult, your information at the college is your information. He doesn’t have access unless you share it.

Honestly, I think your dad needs therapy. Is he raising a son or is he raising a doctor? This is YOUR life, not his life. You have absolutely no reason to feel guilty; in fact, it’s your father who should feel guilty for being so narrow-minded. I’m heartened to see that you’re insightful beyond your years and it’s my hope that you don’t buy into the guilt trip. I speak from experience as I spent most of my life feeling guilty about my mother; a therapist eventually taught me about boundaries and I no longer suffer with that misplaced guilt. You’ve probably heard the expression that you can’t change others, you can only change yourself and your reaction to others. For this reason, I recommend you talk to a counselor who will help put this into perspective for you. It sounds as though you see the situation clearly, but if you find yourself succumbing to the guilt, then it would be a great option. I wish you all of the very best as you choose the path that is right for you.

I’m so sorry OP. I’m a generation older than you but my parents were both immigrants and I was the first person on either side of the family to go to college. Lots of pressure. I started pre-med. Loved my lab courses, struggled in lectures with all the rote memorization, but the last straw was a summer internship at a large med center. I HATED it and it became super obvious that I wasn’t following a path for me. This was after a childhood of volunteering in my local hospital for 5 years. medical explorer clubs, blah, blah. There was a big difference in bringing patients their food trays, working in the pharmacy, or even as a med assistant (which I did for three years), than what I saw at the hospital that summer. I switched to psychology. To say my parents were not happy is a massive understatement, but at that point, I was already half way through college and short of refusing to pay my tuition (which they threatened but in the end, they wanted me to have an education), I was able to continue. I did meaningful undergrad research, wrote a thesis, had great paid summer jobs, got into grad schools, and was gainfully employed quickly doing something I loved. My parents still complain that I “could have been a doctor”…it’s been 25 years…but in the end I wouldn’t have been successful. You need to follow your own path.

As others have already said, in many other countries, the path to wealth, and more important stability, is via medicine. That is absolutely not true in the US. Frankly there are many jobs that you will be more financially successful! My brother, with a college degree, decided that he liked working with his hands and having more independence than a traditional office job. He became a master plumber and has a contracting company. If you’ve ever paid for a “house call” for a plumber, you know it’s a very lucrative trade.

Let your dad calm down. Then rationally talk to him about your passions and the road you want to carve out for your future. Make sure he knows you have a plan. That you will still work hard but your dream is different than his.

An ironic anecdote: My daughter was a gifted musician from the time she was very little - perfect ear, started composing young, etc… My husband dreamt of her going to conservatory. He was crushed when she announced in middle school that she wanted to do a STEM camp instead of music camp for the summer. She’ll be attending Honors College at Purdue this upcoming year as a first year engineering. He’s gotten over his conservatory dream…which was his dream…not hers. Your dad will too!

In the end we parents all want the same thing - for our kids to be happy and secure. There are a million paths to get there! Find yours!!!

You can major in anything and still apply to medical school as long as you take the requisite courses for medical school applicants…and take the MCAT.

There is no guarantee that you will get accepted to medical school even if you apply…so having a back up plan is a good idea, not a bad one.

I agree with others…just wait a few days…and hope things cool down. When do you return to college? Just look forward to that!

Unfortunately, while you may be an adult or nearly so in the eyes of the law, if you are financially dependent on your father you are not his equal. And your father comes from a time and culture that was very patriarchal.

You need someone to mediate. Reach out to a guidance counselor, teacher, adult friend - someone who can speak with your father without all the emotional baggage. He is a product of his upbringing. You are the product of a very different upbringing, but he is currently not able to realize this. You need an impartial - but knowledgeable - third party to intervene.

My husband is a chemistry professor, and we’ve seen so many students who crash and burn, or who end up with mental health issues, because parents think the only path to success is medical school or engineering. It’s not only immigrant parents, but certainly the feeling is stronger with your father because of his struggles.

It is true that you can major in anything and still go to med school - but is med school what you want? You would still need to take all the pre-requisite courses, which may not be the right path for you. And as mentioned above, only a fraction of students who start as pre-med end up applying to medical school, and only a fraction of those get accepted, And many of the graduate with 6 figures in debt. It’s a long path for many doctors to having a good life financially.

I’m sure your father loves you, and wants the best for you. Right now though, he can’t understand that his path is not necessarily your path. And it sounds like he is always going to be emotional about this conversation with you.

I hope you find someone who can intercede and help your dad see your perspective, that you can be respected and lead a successful life without being in the medical profession.

FYI everyone, that breakdown at the beginning of my post was apparently a vasovagal syncope. In other words, I was overstimulated emotionally and I indeed fainted.

Some thoughts:

  1. You don’t have to major in biology to go to med school. You can major in anything you want as long as you also take Bio, Chem, Org. Chem etc. So you can prepare yourself for the possibility of med school while still majoring in what you want to. This gives you the advantage of standing out amongst the other 5 zillion Bio majors

  2. THere would seem to be a cultural aspect here…it maybe that Doctor is the number one desired profession, then engineer, and everything else is dramatically lower on the desirability scale. They think they are being good parents by ensuring you have a “good job”. One that is respected. The problem is that they only respect like two jobs.

  3. Your Dad is using guilt against you. A) Recognize that B) Decide how to respond…you can just kind of ignore it or say something like “Dad, wow. Do you really feel that way? Maybe you should talk to somebody.”

  4. Sometimes appeasement for now works…keep the option of med school open while still pursuing what you want. They may say if you don’t do pre-med they won’t pay for college anymore…but I assure you that their child not going to college would be worse for them.

Just saw this in another post:

“You don’t want to be a doctor? Then become an engineer. Done!”
As a young girl growing up in India my parents expected me to become a doctor. Once in middle school, I confessed that I didn’t like biology and that I would hate to be a doctor because I would have to perform surgeries. Their response: “You don’t want to be a doctor? Then become an engineer. Done!” My parents never considered that I just might want to be something else. “Oh no!” they would say. “Everything else is a risk.” So I became an engineer and I loathed it. The minute I went abroad, I switched fields. Now, I work in global health. I earn little but I am content. And I have a peppy daughter who is in preschool and is awash with possibilities. My partner and I let her dream about what she could become — not the other way around.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/07/12/627674865/your-turn-when-parents-push-too-hard-or-not-enough?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news

Asad, I believe I can relate very well to you and to your dad. Despite what you feel or anyone tells you, your parents have your best interest at heart. No one else does. Remember that. Your future financial success and stability are only going to benefit you. Your dad is just looking out for your best interest.

Now as to biology/medicine vs something else … be honest - are you telling the whole story?
Are you passionate about another subject? Have you demonstrated that passion? How?
Without evidence of talent or passion for something else that you can be very successful at, what do you expect your parents/dad to say? Are you aware of the $1.5 TRILLION in student debt, most of which young people are unable to pay back because they pursued Art History or Philosophy or Russian Studies?

Be honest with yourself. If you think there is something else that you can be good at and will lead to future employment prospects then make that argument. I am sure your dad will support you.

I have a feeling that you are just saying no to biology/medicine, without making a case for anything else. I’m sure as a young man, you have given some thought to your future. It’s a vicious and cut-throat job market out there, and being aimless and ill-prepared is not a good recipe.

Please think about what you want to do and why. Then talk to your dad about your goals and aspirations. He will support you.

You don’t have to have a passion for biology to be a doctor. Orthopedic surgeons have more in common with finish carpenters than biologists.

There are certain paths to a successful adulthood that are most obvious to parents. As others have suggested, find a college where it is easy to major in something that does interest you but also fulfill pre-med requirements. Put this battle off until you no longer live with your father. Do not trigger his temper. Once undergrad is done do what you want.

Most pre-meds get shut out of medical school, and biology majors face poor major-specific job prospects, due to the flood of failed pre-med biology majors chasing those jobs.

Pre-med or not, majoring in biology without a strong interest in the subject and awareness of the limited job prospects is not a good idea.

I would love to see the statistics that demonstrate that most of the student debt that is unable to be paid is coming from Art History, Philosophy, or Russian Studies majors. I think the real facts would be that the list of majors is pretty broad and includes many in the popular CS, pre-med, and engineering fields as well. I seem to remember there was recently an article about the crushing student debt that is carried by medical professionals and the inability or desire to pay it off. A biology, pre-med, or even a MD are not guarantees of the ability to have a high net worth income.

“I seem to remember there was recently an article about the crushing student debt that is carried by medical professionals”

I have had relatively middle aged doctors who were top specialists at well known medical facilities and who also went to relatively modestly priced universities tell me that they are still paying off their medical school debt.

Perhaps just as serious is the high number of premed students who end up not getting into any medical school.

I agree that it would be interesting to see statistics on the amount of student debt that is being carried by graduates who have found a good well paying job and can handle the debt, versus the amount of debt that is being carried by graduates or non-graduates who are working a job that they could have gotten without any university at all.

The point about “Art History or Philosophy or Russian Studies” is obviously not that these specific majors are the ones accounting for $1.5 trillion of debt. The point is to pursue a major which also results in future job prospects since we don’t live in Utopia.

Also, it would be one thing if someone shows immense talent and passion for let’s just say painting or acting or is interested in teaching or law etc. But absent any real talent/passion, to reject a major is not prudent, IMHO.

Sometimes I feel like the day I am able to confidently and passionately become invested in my activities completely on my own is the day my father is out of my life forever, be it death or some other reason. And until then I have to listen to him because… he’s my dad.

Parents of CC, do you think you strike fear into your children in order to get them to listen to you? We’re you equals when your children were finishing high school?

Biology is not such a major. http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html indicates that biology graduates historically have done worse than philosophy graduates, though slightly better than art history graduates.

A pre-med can major in anything, as long as s/he also takes the pre-med courses. Biology just happens to be “convenient” in terms of the major requirements heavily overlapping with pre-med courses, but about half of applicants to medical schools major in something else.

I’m not the “fear striking” type. My parents used that kind of emotional manipulation with me (and still do) and I don’t parent that way.

Do I think I am “equals” with my just turned 18 year old daughter? The daughter we financially support? The one who still is under our roof? Whose education we are gifting her with for at least the next 4 years (longer if she ops for grad school)? The daughter who is 30 years my junior? Nope. Not my equal.

What that means to me is that I have a lot more world experience than she does, and I expect her to respectfully listen to my advice and suggestions.

That said, the whole point of parenting is to get your children ready to fly and soar on their own. Her path forward is her own. Her choice of college was her own, her choice of major, etc… It’s my job now to transition from active, daily parenting, to being the soft place to fall and biggest cheerleader. And hopefully one of the people she comes to for advice if she wants/needs it.