Parents of full-pay kids want to end need aid.

Paying for College
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<p>Neither son qualified for need-based aid, so we gave them a choice of in-state U or going elsewhere with merit aid, loans (theirs) and help from us.</p>

<p>I don't feel my sons have been cheated because they had the very good fortune to grow up in an educated family that's definitely not rich, but still has resources that most people lack.</p>

<p>I've taught college at a public university that had many low income students. I've also mentored low income high school students. I've seen the depth of their financial struggles, which typically were heartbreaking. Even with grants, they graduated with staggering debt.</p>

<p>IMO anyone who thinks that only loans should be offered to students is either hopelessly uninformed or shockingly callous and selfish.</p>

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<p>On public Us admitting OOS students and giving them merid aid, does the merit aid cover the entire difference between the instate and OOS tuition? From what I've read on these boards, UMD gives some OOS students (some IS students, too) a merit grant of $8K. Notice that UMD's instate tuition (not COA, just tuition) is $7,969. OOS tuition is $22,208. So $22K - $8K = more than an instate student brings in.</p>

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<p>Because they are attending the university. Some schools are trying to attract OOS students to their schools, and do so by offering merit aid.</p>

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<p>On public Us admitting OOS students and giving them merid aid, does the merit aid cover the entire difference between the instate and OOS tuition? From what I've read on these boards, UMD gives some OOS students (some IS students, too) a merit grant of $8K. Notice that UMD's instate tuition (not COA, just tuition) is $7,969. OOS tuition is $22,208. So $22K - $8K = more than an instate student brings in.
An instate student has already contibuted taxes toward the university- but no- in general, OOS schools don't offer enough to make up the difference between instate tuition and out of state.
But if the school is what you want, it can be a good option and my older D was offered merit that made a OOS higher tier school very attractive compared to her 1st choice instate college.</p>

<p>( but it wasn't what she wanted and she went private)</p>

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<p>Look at the University of South Carolina -
They do have scholarships that award in-state tuition to out of state students. In fact they have a huge set of scholarship strictly for OOS.
They do take care of their in-state students as well.
South Carolina is a very poor state. Their public schools are not so great but USC is a great school. They do benefit from having kids from out of state come to South Carolina. The applicant pool has increased in quality over the past several years and their rankings keep going up and up.</p>

<p>IMO - The OOS opportunites at USC are darn good and they keep attracting students from the northeast - PA, NY, NJ who suffer from high priced public education.</p>

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<p>whatever happened to the cur I used to know, y'all might remember the kind, gentle soul who dropped off cc for awhile bcos it was too contentious? Anyone heard from him lately? :D</p>

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<p>As a poor person, I am grateful for need based aid and probably would not be able to attend a good university without it. That is all.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
whatever happened to the cur I used to know, y'all might remember the kind, gentle soul who dropped off cc for awhile bcos it was too contentious? Anyone heard from him lately?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nope. ;) .....</p>

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<p>
[quote]
As a poor person, I am grateful for need based aid and probably would not be able to attend a good university without it. That is all.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>you and lots of other kids.</p>

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<p>As for OOS students paying for a state U, my D is going to attend the OOS U with a small merit scholarship. That scholarship makes it almost the same price as I would pay for a state school in my own home state, within a couple of thousand dollars. The state school here does not offer the program she wants(not a close state). She has expressed the desire to live in the state after graduation also, which would make it her home state eventually. Without that merit aid, I don't know if we would even be looking at that school. We came to the conclusion that we could not afford the private colleges she was looking at, with their small merit aid packages. And our EFC is about exactly what we can afford with a combination of savings, loans, working, etc. So we are middle-class and trying to afford our dreams, just like everyone else. As long as everyone is happy, that's what will be done(in our house anyway).</p>

31

<p>
[quote]
Some want to end all need based aid except loans.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Which is the greater tragedy?</p>

<ul>
<li>that some truly remarkable yet penniless kid never gets a bachelors degree, because loans are all that is available to him and the cost of a 4 year degree (even with 2 years of CC) is more money than anyone in his sphere has ever seen?</li>
<li>or that some middle class kid whose family will struggle with college costs, for whatever reason, won't be able to afford a high priced (2x public costs) private school and will attend more affordable publics?</li>
</ul>

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<p>the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few</p>

<p>It is in the best interest of the country to have education be available to more than just the rich. MANY people would not be able to afford even the least expensive colleges without need based aid (whether it be grants/loans or scholarships). </p>

<p>If all the schools were only filled with people able to afford full price (whether it be 5K or 50K) would that really benefit this country?</p>

<p>Now that sounds elitist to me.</p>

<p>I'm a middle class (not the 100K kind) single parent (son never met his father) with only a HS degree. My son was smarter than me after about 6th grade. I would have done anything to send him away to college. I cried for joy when he got scholarship $$ for expensive private school.</p>

<p>he's worth it and this world will be getting their money's worth back from him over the next 50 years because some private college deemed him worthy and is helping provide what I could not. With any luck, someday my son will be a full pay parent. Wouldn't that be how the 'system' should work.</p>

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<p>Sue, I agree completely. We really need to take the long term view, i.e., what is best for our children and grandchildren, not necessarily what is best for our wallets today.</p>

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<p>kelsmom said, "I stand up proudly in the corner of need based aid. That is, unless I don't get any. Then I'll cross over into the other corner."</p>

<p>ROTFLMAO</p>

<p>The United States set up this weird system of higher education. Many private colleges have been back peddling to try to make up for the inequalities in the past. Some do a better job then others. Most can't afford to give out too much need aid so they jack up the tuition for the full pay so they can appear more open hearted. The full pay are paying more then they should. Is that fair? nope. nope. nope.</p>

<p>It remains that we do not choose our parents or our beauty or our intelligence or our status. I say everyone needs to just shut up and suck it up with whatever you were given and work with it. If a college is giving need aid then go ahead and take it if you can. If you are a full pay you have a tremendously easier time of it in admissions, so quit whining and apply where ever you want to. If this was a European or Canadian system of higher education only the best students would go. As it is, expensive colleges are full of students who shouldn't be at them and are there just because they can pay. </p>

<p>Here is a related issue for your thoughts:</p>

<p>The University of California did away with affirmative action several years ago. Here are some interesting statistics for your perusal:</p>

<p>According to the 2006 ACS Estimates, California's population is:</p>

<pre><code>* 59.8% White American - includes 17.5% White Hispanic,
* 6.2% Black or African American,
* 12.3% Asian American,
* 0.7% American Indian,
* 3.3% mixed, and the remaining 17.3% are of Some other Race.
* 35.9% are Hispanic or Latino (of any race).[4]
</code></pre>

<p>UC Irvine (moderately selective)
* <1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
* 55% Asian/Pacific Islander
* 2% Black/Non-Hispanic
* 14% Hispanic
* 20% White/Non-Hispanic
* 2% Non-Resident Alien
* 5% Race/ethnicity unreported</p>

<p>UCLA (most selective):
* <1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
* 41% Asian/Pacific Islander
* 4% Black/Non-Hispanic
* 14% Hispanic
* 34% White/Non-Hispanic
* 3% Non-Resident Alien
* 4% Race/ethnicity unreported</p>

<p>UC Berkeley (most selective):
* <1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
* 45% Asian/Pacific Islander
* 3% Black/Non-Hispanic
* 12% Hispanic
* 30% White/Non-Hispanic
* 3% Non-Resident Alien
* 7% Race/ethnicity unreported</p>

<p>UC Riverside (less selective):
* <1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
* 44% Asian/Pacific Islander
* 8% Black/Non-Hispanic
* 27% Hispanic
* 15% White/Non-Hispanic
* 2% Non-Resident Alien
* 4% Race/ethnicity unreported</p>

<p>You will note that Asians make up less than 13% of the population of California, yet hold more than 40% of the spots at the UC's with UC Irvine a whopping 55%. What do I think? I'm not saying, but chew on it for a while. There are many issues coming into play here.</p>

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<p>Chew on it? Do we want this turned into a racial attitudes issue?</p>

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<p>No, not at all. It is just facts. People get all wigged out about all this stuff and they just need to drop it. There is no easy answer to any of it. Is it right that CA is 35.9% Hispanic yet the UC's do not reflect that? Is it right that an Asian student who has worked hard in school is not admitted somewhere because of their race? Until this country looks beyond race AND economic status in college admissions, these issues will continue to rear their ugly heads over and over and over. </p>

<p>The only thing that holds Americans together as a 'race' is that we are all Americans. Most Americans fundamentally believe in the freedom to make of your life what you will. These circumstances are held in no other country in this world. America is a different animal. Personally, I think race should never even be asked or reported. It is totally irrelevant, in my opinion. The same as economic status should be totally irrelevant in admissions. </p>

<p>Paying for whatever college accepts you is relevant in the United States. If the college wants to give you money then take it. If they don't, then go elsewhere without a second thought and don't complain. If you are wealthy and your parents can pay, then you have benefited from that, but not at the expense of your own hard work in gaining admission in the first place. </p>

<p>What am I really saying? Economic status and race have no place in college admissions at all. Admissions should be entirely based on what you have done as an individual human being. But, because we are a capitalist society, only the very wealthiest colleges can afford to do that now. People would do well to accept the realities as they stand and quit complaining about it.</p>

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<p>a little more:
Unfortunately, even the top colleges continue to take race and even gender into consideration even if economic status isn't important to them. They still have along way to go!</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, even the top colleges continue to take race and even gender into consideration even if economic status isn't important to them. They still have along way to go!</p>

<p>I have the opposite view.
They have come a long way.
Rather than a place where mainly upper class, caucasian, protestant males went for college, they serve more than just males, more than our anglo-saxon ancestors as you have pointed out.</p>

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<p>Yes, colleges have come a long way. They just aren't done yet and have further to go. Historically black colleges admit other races. Top colleges pay students to go there and boot out full pay, mediocre ones. It's an interesting and contentious time.</p>

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<p>Surely it's clear that selective schools take race and gender (and economic and myriad other factors as well) into consideration in order to produce the particular kind of diversity they want. The schools are not trying to be fair; they are defining and maintaining their culture. People need to accept this reality.</p>