Parents of Musically Talented Child: College vs. Conservatory.

Parents Forum
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I’m sure there are many parents out there like me with a musically talented child torn between the choice of attending a regular college or a music conservatory. I know it’s not necessary the case of either/or; it could be both. In fact, for the past few years, my violinist son, a junior in high school, has had his goal set on the dual degree program at Harvard/New England Conservatory of Music (NEC). Recently, however, he’s had a change of mind. Upon looking back in his life of ALWAYS having had to work so hard on maintaining his academic excellence while also maintaining his musical excellence, he’s now fed up with the idea of continuing to lead a dual life style for several more years. As a parent who’s lived through all this since he was 5 years old, I can totally relate to his feelings about this. So, the latest decision of our’s is no dual degree program. It’s now either/or.

When time comes to his college application, he’s planning on applying to about 10 colleges while auditioning at 3 music conservatories. My son is currently leaning a bit more towards attending a regular college with pre-med concentration, but he doesn’t want to entirely rule out the conservatory route, either. Should a conservatory offer a full ride scholarship, for instance (unlikely though it may be), it COULD change our mindset. For us, it’s wiser to allow all options open for now.

Any parents out there with a similar situation like us? Would you mind sharing your thoughts on why you chose the direction that you did or will take?

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You need to head to the Music Majors forum. This is discussed frequently there.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/

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We never got as far down the path as your son, because my daughter only wrestled with the idea of conservatory/college up until 10th grade, but I do have some thoughts that might help you.

First, your son needs to ask himself if he is an artist or a scholar. Yes, I know, right now he is both, but one of those things will give him more joy than the other. Joy matters. College is very demanding. Having to practice for hours a day while studying may be overwhelming.

If he decides on college rather than a conservatory, will he still have the chance to grow as a musician? Some colleges give first priority on practice time and instruction to music majors. (If he decides to be a music major, he might as well go to a conservatory.)

If he doesn’t pursue music as a career, will pursuing it as a hobby be enough for him?

If he does go to a conservatory, will his intellectual self be fully satisfied? Others may disagree, but in general, people at arts schools (including conservatories) are primarily artists, not scholars. If he wants an education in critical thinking and in general knowledge, he should choose a university or LAC.

4

Check out Johns Hopkins/Peabody, where Peabody Conservatory students are encouraged to double major and follow their academic pursuits. As I recall from my daughter’s college search, there is some very good information on the Peabody site about double majoring and balancing artistic/academic interests.

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@musicamusica - Thank you for pointing out that there’s a thread devoted to music major; didn’t know that.

@Massmomm - My son’s definitely a musician than a scholar, talent wise, passion wise. The problem is we’re afraid there really isn’t much of a future for him considering how competitive the world of violin (especially) has become in the past couple of decades. I do think he has enough talent to make a living as a musician, but I’m not sure if I want to encourage him to make a lifelong career of music with all of its uncertainties and instability.

@claire74 - We did look into Johns Hopkins/Peabody, as well as Rice University and Northwestern, both with great music departments. Again, though, my son doesn’t want to live a “double” life, so no double degree program for him and no double major program.

I suppose the main question my son has is: follow the passion in music with unlikely stable life style with no lucrative and financial security, or follow a stable life style with financial security? He enjoys science, by the way, so going into a pre-med concentration isn’t something just for secure future.

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Read the articles on the Peabody site about college vs conservatory.

http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html

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Would he consider a double degree in music education and performance? The musicians I know who are making a good living at it have teaching, as well as performance jobs. For example, the vocal teacher at the high school where my kids graduated is a mezzo-soprano who performs regularly around here. Another friend is a cellist who conducts a youth orchestra and teaches at several schools in a large public school district.

Having the education component might give him a more secure future.

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My daughter started at a conservatory for musical theater- I know it is not quite the same but with regards to a conservatory vs. a university maybe this will help. She was also more of a singer than a scholar; although very bright, she had been performing theater while trying to keep up with academics and was sick of the trying to keep up. She chose the conservatory because she wanted less challenging academics- or so she thought. Once she started the program, she found she missed the academics more than she ever thought she would. Her fellow students in general were happy they only had to take very basic math and social sciences, while my daughter really missed more in-depth literature discussions and more interesting classes in general. She ended up leaving after 1 semester, and eventually transferred to a university where she still had a heavy musical theater load, but was able to take more challenging academics. It was a perfect fit for her. In the end, it was a good choice because, while she has been successful in the theater world, she has found that the lifestyle is not what she wants. She is looking at something more stable and financially secure. She is currently applying for MBA programs and the units from her university program will all transfer towards it while most of the conservatory units would not have transferred. Just something to consider.

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Has he also considered going to a STEM centered environment with active ensembles and orchestras such as Cal Tech or MIT? There are many schools where he can have an active musical life, continue with good private teachers and still pursue science at the highest level.
just an example : http://www.music-theater-art.caltech.edu/instrumental_music.html

btw—this would not be a dual degree or a double major, but music as an EC. I live in Pasadena and have met more than one accomplished young musician at Cal Tech

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Also if he is on the STEM path there is this:

http://www.hartford.edu/ceta/undergraduate/engineering/AEM/

S completed that program (his conservatory “instrument” was classical voice, however he has friends who were jazz percussion, oboe, horn, piano, etc.)

Really a top notch program and every graduated peer he knows is gainfully employed.

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My S recently graduated with a dual degree in cello performance and math. Music has always been his top priority and making a career in music is his goal. Early on he looked at the degree in math as plan B.
His thinking on this evolved over time and he found that he wasn’t ready to completely give up on academic pursuits and wanted to have a broader more liberal arts education in addition to his music regardless of whether he ever uses math to pursue a career. Over the years I encouraged him to drop the math degree if he felt it was in any way getting in the way of pursuing his musical goals but he never felt that that was the case. He did not find that his musical development suffered by pursuing the 2nd degree but has recently said that his math degree is not as deep as other math majors who had that as their primary focus. I would assume that that could have been reversed if he had made math his primary focus and music secondary. He has now been accepted to several top level programs to pursue his MM in cello performance. I have known through my S of various students who have changed paths one way or the other during college, either dropping the academic degree to focus on music or dropping the music degree and choosing to focus solely on the academic degree. I also know of at least one student at his school who was pursuing an academic degree and auditioned during his freshman year and was accepted into the music school for the following year. My point in telling you this is that your son may want keep his options open through at least his freshman year in case he changes his mind. My son’s experience was that in his freshman year there were so many mandatory requirements in the music school that he really didn’t start in on his math degree until his sophomore year. Your son may want to look at schools that have both options for an academic degree and a music major even if he doesn’t end up studying both. There are many schools that fit this category, schools like UM, NU and IU that are universities with strong conservatory like music schools or CIM, Peabody/JHU, Rochester/Eastman that are conservatories linked to universities. Also if he keeps his options open by applying to a variety of schools he may find by the end of his senior year after going through the application and audition process that the choice is clearer. Sorry this is so long, hope it has some helpful info for you.

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My son is a musician with both bachelors and masters degrees in music performance. His undergrad was from a university with a conservatory like music program built into it. His grad degree was from a school of the performing arts…a conservatory.

My opinions:

  1. A degree in music shows a commitment and discipline. Your son could enter other fields of study as a grad student. Or pursue job options not in the fold of music WITH a music degree.
  2. If your kiddo does not want to be a school teacher, please don't suggest that as a financial safety net. In addition, the requirements to get a teaching certification, plus satisfy a music performance degree requirement don't always go hand in hand...not enough time to do both. So...if this DOES turn out to be an option...make sure the school supports it.
  3. Some schools are awesome in terms of double majors, and others not so much so. Many ensembles at DS's school met daily at exactly the same time as many upper level lab courses in the sciences. You couldn't do both..
  4. If a double major is something to consider, you need to explore colleges that support that.some just don't make it easy. Some make it sort of easy, but require an additional semester or year to complete the double degrees. In addition, consider things like whether your student wants to study abroad...which can really put a kink in course sequences if not supported by the college your kid attends.
  5. Consider the costs associated with an extra year or semester of college...if that is the option for your child's college and a double major.

6.read the Peabody articles I linked upstream. They are actually different than the ones the had in 2002 when my kid was applying. After reading them, there was no question our kid shoild major in music…and no question he would fit into a conservatory environment.

  1. Please don't pressure your kid into double majoring because music is a low income field.it is a low income field...but if that is your kid's passion...let them do it. Like I said...lots of employment options will be available IF the student wants to pursue them. OR the student, themselves, will decide the time/commitment to a music major isn't what they want. Let your kid make that decision...in my opinion.
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We’ve spent the last year scouring the land for LACs where one could pursue music at a high level while majoring in a different discipline. If you’re interested in smaller schools, there are a number of good options out there – you’re not limited to big universities or schools with a separate conservatory nearby. Let me know if you’d like more info.

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My second kiddo dos not want to major in music…at all…but DID want to continue playing her instrument in a college orchestra…note…not a wind ensemble or band…an orchestra. She contacted the heads of the music departments, the instrument private teachers, and the orchestra directors at each school she had interest in…and got great information.

She also didn’t want to schlep from one campus to another for lessons.

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If your son wants to go the LAC route, Oberlin is a great college/conservatory choice. I had a friend who went there and double majored in French Horn performance/composition and math. Even though that was many years ago, I still think that could be a good choice, especially since Oberlin is fairly strong in science. Even if he only majored in one of the sciences, he would still be somewhere he could continue to pursue his music at a high level, if he chose to.

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@Mom2jl, Oberlin is great is you want to do a double degree over 5 years. If you want to major in something else, or even double major, it’s less great. The conservatory is pretty walled off for the non-conservatory kids, at least with regards to participating in the conservatory ensembles and studying with Con faculty.

There are a number of other LACs out there with far more permeable boundaries between the music school/conservatory and the rest of the college. Specifically, St. Olaf, Lawrence, Gettysburg, U. of Puget Sound, Furman, Wheaton (IL), Rollins and a handful of others. And that’s not including all the LACs that just have a strong music department, of which there are also a good number.

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My kid would love to be at a conservatory but it didn’t work out that way. Kiddo is, instead, a music performance major at a major university. I have a lot of thoughts on this because I’ve seen kids on both sides. In general, more kids feel constrained at conservatories and want to move in the other direction rather than finding universities limiting. The biggest exception is students who would struggle academically-- because of lds or limited English-- and they are often a better fit for a conservatory. Honestly, your question seems less about the setting than the career choice. There are many in-between to the two scenarios you proposed: earning a bachelors in music (instead of music performance), double majoring, minoring, majoring in music at a school of music that is part if a university, etc. In my case, I let my kid make the basic decision on whether or not to pursue a career in music. There seemed to be little choice; he lives and breathes music. That said, as he gets older and closer to graduation, I am not convinced we (meaning the family, his professors and his music bubble), have given him a realistic preparation mentally or educationally, to earn a living. I am not sure that is better at the top conservatories. (I once read an article about how Juilliard grads struggled after graduating). Right now, my advice would be to pursue a conservatory if your child sees no other way to live, if you have enough money so he will have a cushion in life and/ or if your kid is very good at making opportunities/ at hustling (in the best sense of the word). Otherwise, kiddo needs a back-up plan whether that’s a double major, some sort of career training or a music-related major with greater career opportunities (like music ed).

18

Just want to repeat that there is an excellent music major forum here, where you can stay in touch for the coming year if you so choose.

And please have your son read the Peabody link that thumper posted. I was going to post it as well. I have a feeling many don’t read links that get posted but those who have read this one, find it really helpful.

At the undergrad level, there really is no need to worry about a backup. Your son, with a BM, has access to any opportunities any other bachelor’s degree affords, including med school (a large percentage of music majors are accepted to med school for some reason), law or business or nursing schools, and grad school in music or other fields.

Also http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1577495-busting-the-myth-that-fine-arts-degrees-lead-to-the-poorhouse.html

On the other hand, we know plenty of talented and some now successful musicians who attended a college or university, continued private lessons and practice, performed on and off campus, but majored in something else entirely.

As for a double degree, there are programs that have a conservatory on campus so life feels more integrated. Oberlin, Lawrence, and Bard are often mentioned but of course there are many more. Bard actually requires conservatory students to do a double degree.

If your son does not want to do a double degree at schools like that, however, you have to check out the point brought up above about actually having fewer opportunities with the conservatory there, than at a school without one.

Notice also that there are universities with BM programs where there is a good deal of integration with the wider campus. And even BA programs with performance elements. And some BA programs are quite good.

So the options are BA (in music or in something else) or BS with private lessons, and continued performance; major/minor, double major, and double degree.

I think your son is extremely wise to apply to all options that he might be interested in. A lot can happen in a year. He can decide on April 30th 2017!!

In the meantime, please consider the feelings that many of us have that the worry about a “backup” at the undergrad may be misguided. If your son really wants to do music, I hope he can go for it. But even then, he may want a freestanding conservatory or he may prefer a conservatory that is part of a larger campus (financial aid can be better in the latter actually). If your son loves science, he can certainly continue music in many ways at a high enough level to continue.

And read the Peabody link!! Your son can decide which student he most resembles…

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My son had several classmates at his small liberal arts college (Williams) who were serious musicians that that chose not to attend a conservatory. They have all pursued careers in areas other than music (including graduate degrees in other disciplines) but musical performance has remained an important part of who they are. During their undergraduate years they were able to participate in campus music ensembles which were populated by majors across a wide range of academic disciplines.

I think the primary consideration if your son chooses to pursue a liberal arts degree in something other than music (and eventually medical school) is the accessibility of performance opportunities on campus for non-majors. At some schools ensemble positions are hard to come by unless you’re part of the music department.

Another consideration is the ease of double majoring if that’s his preference. At many bachelor of arts schools, double majoring is fairly common and course requirements are minimal. It’s not unusual to find talented musicians in medical school, but if becoming a doctor is the goal that rises to the surface, then he’ll need to focus on his undergraduate GPA as well.

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^Williams is one of those LACs I was talking about without an actual school of music or conservatory that nonetheless has a very strong department with a lot of terrific players. And yes, @momrath and I are very much on the same page that you should do your due diligence that the schools with outstanding music departments that you may be considering do not exclude students at the school that are not specifically enrolled in said outstanding departments.