<p>We are beginning the college search this year for our son who is a senior. Unfortunately, my husband and I don't agree about too much! Our son is a very talented musician -- has attended highly selective music programs, studies with a teacher who is internationally known, etc. he wants to apply to conservatories. </p>
<p>But my husband (who's the first in his family to be born in the US) can't get past the fact that DS will likely not make much money and that his career prospects will be uncertain. At this point, he more or less refuses to help out with anything having to do with our son's music. I have paid for summer camps myself, driven thousands of miles myself to drop him off and pick him up, and will be making a very long commute to NYC this year so that he can continue studying with a well-regarded teacher. I am also paying for him to visit schools, for repairs to his instrument, etc. </p>
<p>Honestly, it feels like he is my child from some prior marriage or something, and as though our other children are 'ours' but he is only mine. DS is a difficult child. He has an Asperger's diagnosis and his social skills are poor. But my husband thinks it's reasonable to simply declare that he's not interested in music and therefore doesn't have to have a relationship with our child.</p>
<p>Wondering if anyone else has ever been in this kind of situation regarding a child's future decisions, and if/how they might have resolved it.</p>
<p>If you havenāt, you may also want to post in one of the music related forums, to draw out those parents.</p>
<p>My D2 was also highly talented and involved; early on, we wondered about a conservatory. Her teacher, also well known, a name in her instrument, laid out for us just how many hours those kids practice, how they live and breathe their music. And etc. We realized our dau would benefit from a less unilateral experience, in an environment where more academic experiences could be explored and there was variety to the social choices. So, my thought is not just to look out at the next five years, but what you feel he needs to head into young adulthood. Also, her teacher was quite frank with us about how she felt Dās talent ranked, among the much larger competitive pool of budding musicians, not just the experiences D had had, to date. She said this would likely not be Dās moneymaker.</p>
<p>The DH issue- I donāt often comment on those, but for a child who needs extra guidance and support- and apparently gets that from you- well, itās sometimes hard to tell the chicken from the egg. I supported Dās talent, shared responsibilities. But it was clear, looking all the way back, that this was Dadās project. There wasnāt a large role for me to play, in decisions, even when finances were tight and the same resources were not given to our other girl.</p>
<p>Also, donāt you need to be concerned about timing for any auditions? Starting now does feel a wee bit late-? Or have you already begun exploring?</p>
<p>Iām sorry that your H and you are not on the same page and Iām mostly sorry your DS does not have a good relationship with his father. In addition to other issues that may be going on, some men (and probably some women) with Aspie or other challenged children canāt handle the fact that their kids arenāt perfect or what they expected and their way of dealing with it is to ignore the kid. Sad. </p>
<p>Have you considered a university with a conservatory or highly-ranked music program but also has other majors that your H would endorse? DS could study music and some other major heās interested in. If he doesnāt like that other major, he could drop that and concentrate on music. In the end, it is your Sās choice.</p>
<p>Donāt limit yourself to conservatories. I know somebody who choose a LAC with a great music program (although she was talented enough to get into conservatories) and decided she loves music theory and wants to be a music teacher (rather than actually perform). She is double majoring in music and psych. Those kinds of opportunities would not be available in conservatoires. Also, places like Berklee College of Music (donāt know if that is considered a conservatory or not) will have other subject for minors and offer non-performing music majors (like music education).</p>
<p>The decision of a conservatory vs. a music major is a difficult one. I think you need to have very serious talks with your sonās private teacher (and perhaps others in music who know your son) about his realistic prospects as a performer. I strongly urge you to go to the Music Major forum here on CCāthere is a ton of useful information there, as well as people who can help.</p>
<p>To be blunt, if he has poor social skills, his ability to make money and his career prospects are already uncertain. The fact that he has a passion for music and feels comfortable in that world is huge, and may actually be the key to a successful life for him. Although most musicians might not be millionaires, I know plenty of musicians who are having a fulfilling, comfortable life.
I also would encourage you to check out some LACs, I have a cousin with Aspergerās who is headed off to a great small LAC this summer for their music program, and he is so excited and really feels like he has found his place in the world. The profs he has met have been so supportive and encouraging, and the small environment should help him thrive. I am not sure that a conservatory would have the same emotional support (there is a pretty competitive environment from what I understand). There might be great opportunities for scholarships at the LACs also.
Iām sorry for the situation with your husband, that sounds terribly painful. I agree that maybe he just doesnāt know how to relate to your son. Perhaps when he goes off to pursue his interests your husband will see him as an independent person and appreciate what he has to offer.</p>
<p>College is a commitment, and should not be forced upon a child.</p>
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<p>āwe are beginning ā¦ forā - IMHO, that is a warning. College is where the child needs to take responsibility for them self, and that starts with choosing colleges. You can guide them. You can make suggestions. But, it is something they do. That said, some kids need more push or guidance than others in order to reach their full potential.</p>
<p>If your child is to succeed as a professional musician, then IMHO, the child should be able to get into the top music schools. Curtis Institute of Music has full-tuition scholarships for all students.</p>
<p>FYI: Most professional musicians also go to grad school. While the undergrad classes are helpful (music theory, history, etc.), admissions is primarily based upon developed talent (donāt need an undergrad degree in music to go to grad school).</p>
<p>BTW: Disagreements about college are not unusual - just look at the Financial Aid section. However, your question is much deeper than that. I have no suggestions. Best wishes to you.</p>
<p>There used to be a terrific set of articles on the Peabody Conservatory website that spoke very nicely to the similarities and differences between conservatory and regular university degrees. When they were thereā¦they were a MUST READ for any family having these discussions. Perhaps someone can link these articles if they are still in existence. </p>
<p>I will sayā¦music is a very strong and demanding major. It requires discipline, commitment, and drive, and the ability to balance a busy schedule. Many music majors go on to graduate or professional programs in other fields with success. </p>
<p>Our DS got music performance degrees and we supported his decision to do so. He will never be a millionaire but he is pursuing his passion and we know he can switch gears at any point in the future, if he chooses to do so.</p>
<p>Relative got her performance BA and not BM(music) not too long ago from a private U with a known good music program, had a music scholarship- pros and cons to the BA versus BM. Now a ticket manager for a large city orchestra, not performing, good use of her management skills and knowledge. There are few spots for even the very talented. Good social skills.</p>
<p>Your son has issues that make his choices more complicated. What does your son feel about things? Is he set on music and only music or can he see a life with music and something else? Is your insistence on so many music opportunities your way of coping with his Aspergers? I wonder if the rift with your husband has to do with your intense focus on music for your son. Surely your son has more dimensions to him than merely music. It sounds like maybe you have latched onto music as something you saw your son successful at when he had problems in other aspects of life. </p>
<p>You need to figure out why YOU are so obsessed with your son and his music. Is it guilt for having not having the child you hoped for? Sounds like things are out of balance- perhaps your H is rebelling against your focus on music- something he doesnāt share. </p>
<p>You both need to talk to your sonās HS guidance counselor early this fall. Since your son has an educational label Iām sure he is well known to someone in the department who may have insights neither parent does. Perhaps music is the best way for your son to be successful as an adult. Perhaps you are missing a different facet of him. A professional can give both of you ideas about what works for your son and which college choices should be on his radar. This third opinion is needed. Your H is likely to listen to an unbiased professional and take his/her advice much more than yours.</p>
<p>Some LACs/universities with highly ranked conservatories:</p>
<p>Oberlin College</p>
<p>University of Rochester/Eastman</p>
<p>Indiana University</p>
<p>UMich</p>
<p>JHU/Peabody(Not sure how closely theyāre linked)</p>
<p>Tufts/New England Conservatory (The link exists, but doesnāt seem to be as close as the first three)</p>
<p>Juilliard/Columbia (The link exists, but doesnāt seem to be as close as the first three).</p>
<p>Itās possible to pursue dual-degree programs at most of the aboveā¦but theyāre usually 5 years in length. However, I personally know several whoāve gone onto doing music or to success in other fields. </p>
<p>One friend at Oberlin did a double degree in Viola and Chemistry and is now pursuing a PhD in the latter at Harvard while performing part-time in a jazz themed band in the Boston area. </p>
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<p>Where did that come from? </p>
<p>I donāt see obsession from OP. Merely a parent who is trying to cultivate a musical talent her son already seems to enjoy of his own accord. Especially considering it is he who is interested in applying to conservatories. </p>
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<p>Oy! Now youāre trying to provide excuses for what is essentially self-absorbed behavior on the part of a parent. Sorry, but nothing IMHO excuses the father from ignoring his son due to sonās interest in music or any other wholesome activity which isnāt illegal and/or threatening to sonās/anyone elseās life and limb.</p>
<p>Lawrence University is another college with a conservatory and LAC together. There is a five year program for a dual degree. But if your son decides to major in something else but still stay involved in music, Lawrence allows that more easily than some other colleges that also have conservatories.</p>
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<p>I do think the OP needs to seek an objective opinion on her sonās future in a performance career. Parents can be very blind on this topic, especially if their kid seems to have no other interest or talent that can obviously be built on in college. It is very hard for a parent to be objective, IMHO. The OP needs to get other opinions and listen carefully to what is said ā and maybe what is not said.</p>
<p>If possible, maybe you can speak with HS GC and music teacher now, to see if they have insights and recommendations as to what has worked well for similar students, Sās potential, other majors, etc. </p>
<p>Some large Us like USoCal also have excellent music departments and may encourage multiple majors so that one can have a field āto fall back on,ā as needed. </p>
<p>Sorry about the rift with your H. Iām sure itās painful for all of you.</p>
<p>Agree with the need for objective opinions about your S.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. His teachers tell us that he does have what it takes to apply to top conservatories ā thatās what is so strange about the situation ā my husbandās derogatory comments about āthe kind of people who go to Julliardā ā when for most people that is a lifeās ambition, not the place they go if they canāt get into the local state university. </p>
<p>I suppose I am a little overinvolved in this ā perhaps the same way a sports parent might be, or even a parent who is a scientist who really enjoys attending their childās science fairs. But I donāt think my support of my child is more unhealthy than any of those other cases. </p>
<p>Yes, weāve got most of the good universities with conservatories on our radar, but honestly my kidās academic performance is all over the place. He spends most of his time practicing.</p>
<p>THe problem with the objective opinions by outsiders is that my husband is convinced that music is a āracketā, and that all the people who tell us that our child is talented just want to 'sell us something ā ā a conservatory education, a better instrument, more lessons. Iāve tried presenting evidence (i.e. this is how competitive the summer program, the arts academy, the music studio are ā this is the percent of people who were NOT invited to ābuy this productā) Doesnāt seem to help.</p>
<p>I donāt have much to add to this conversation. But one thing you might want to explore are opportunities playing in orchestras. From what Iāve heard is that funding for orchestras is hurting and that many members have had to take substantial pay cuts with not many opportunities to change jobs. Iāve heard that itās a tough job market. </p>
<p>Another thing is that most musicians supplement their income by teaching. Just something to think about and what it takes to make a living in music. </p>
<p>Family politics are so hard. I can see where your H is coming from. He is probably nervous about your son and his future. We all like to think that our kids will be self supporting and will be able to have a nice life. It also may be that he is a practical sort. Following your bliss is great and all but paying the bills is the object. </p>
<p>Itās hard to be in the middle. On one hand you want to guide your S and support his passion and also support your husband. Iāve been in this position. Itās not fun.</p>
<p>Have you considered University of Denver? The school has its Lamont Conservatory, good options your son could consider in coordination with music, and also has a very strong support program for students with Aspergers,etc.</p>
<p>As a mom of a poor starving artist who has lots and lots of poor starving artist friends, I can assure you that the vast, vast majority of those who go into the arts and are not flexible about other venues of earning money are going to have problems paying for oneself. Itās just the way it is, and the numbers on the whole are against any given student getting a spot on the symphony or any other āAā level position that can pay the rent. A problem with perfomance based careers, is that āBā level positions often require a lot of job juggling, auditioning, uncertainty, private lessons, really a lot of executive function skills that even a lot of folks who are not on the spectrum cannot handle. That is something that has been very, very difficult for my son. </p>
<p>On the other hand, most liberal arts majors are not going to lead directly into living wage job either these days. And there is that issue of getting a kid through college which is no easy thing if you are trying to put a square peg into a round hole or vice versa. In my particular situation, I can flat out tell you that my son would not have gotten through a traditional academic college program. He was done, done, done with the academics and nearly didnāt get his BFA because of the very paltry requirements that the school had of him in that area. </p>
<p>By the time some of my kids were half way through college, I was praying for them to get out in four years with ANY degree, basket weaving, yoga, ANYTHING. I just wanted them out with a bachelorās and let them figure out where to go from there. With certificate programs available at many community colleges and other places, one can find specific career training later. Getting that bachelorās is a whole other story, in ANYTHING. I 've always felt that parents on this board, along with my peers are ever so privileged to be able to direct their kids to engineering, nursing , accounting, pharmacy, computer science degrees. Me? Well, as I said, I just want the degree and am lighting candles on the altar for that to happen.</p>
<p>No more or less a racket than if someone says your son is gifted in math and needs a computer to advance his studies. The issue is whether the investment is worth the outcome. If son gets a degree in XYZ, will that help him get a job to support himself.</p>
<p>For a few really gifted people, a BM can lead to a good job. My S is one of those, and still chose the BA route rather than BM. BA gave him other skills for a Plan B. In the end, although he has the talent, he did not have the drive (need to be on stage) that other people had in order to be truly successful. With performing arts, it helps to be āhungryā to have that extra drive to succeed. So, he decided to pursue Plan B and enjoy the talent he has developed.</p>
<p>It is a big risk to bank everything on a music degree to make a living performing. Just like it is a big risk to bank an education on a history degree with a specialty in ancient Hittities. Iām not saying the knowledge is not worthwhile. Iām just saying the jobs that look for that skill are few and far between.</p>
<p>Your H probably is overreacting and this may be based on the culture he was brought up in (my Indian H has a different world view from his childhood). He likely doesnāt understand how American education is about more than the traditional academics as well. Your sonās time spent on music practicing may be contributing to his relative lack of success in other areas- more work to master difficult areas may have made them easier by now. Too late to achieve a different balance. Definitely get your H to talk with the education professionals who believe your son should pursue music. Spending time with the HS guidance office learning how American college experiences are tailored to the student would be helpful for your H. He is likely used to a much more rigid definition of academic success whereas Americans know of the Julliard and Eastman reputations.</p>
<p>OP may be telling us her son may not be an ideal candidate based on academics-? Plus that he āis a difficult child. He has an Aspergerās diagnosis and his social skills are poor.ā </p>
<p>OP, you also said in the other thread that much of your own income is going to support his costs. Plus so much of your time. We donāt know your family specifics, but I think some are wondering if there is a coherent plan in which all this leads your son to a bright future. A plan.</p>
<p>Cptās comment about āB level positionsā - I know plenty who cobble together an income through subbing, through contacts they have worked to cultivate, and then lessons. Is this something your son will be capable of?</p>
<p>Suppose it is not. Suppose that is what DH sees: resources spent on today, not tomorrow. Not broader life skills or prep. Especially for a kid who may not be able to juggle the many tasks associated with that cobbling.</p>
<p>Just questions to ask yourself. Ii can see both sides.</p>
<p>Sounds like the flipside to the disdain one micromanaging authoritarian wealthy WASP father had of an older friendās former colleagueās chosen major of engineering/CS sometime in the late '60s/early '70s. In that fatherās eyes, engineering/CS was ātoo blue-collar/low-classā for his son even when the fatherās insistent order that he attended Princeton was honored. </p>
<p>Does your H also have contempt for other things popularly associated with the āeliteā such as Ivy League universities, classical music, etc? Is his disdain for Sās classical musical interests partially/mainly based on the notion āthatās what āspoiled childrenā of the rich doā? Iām wondering as there are people with such negative attitudes based mainly on their own SES-based insecurities/prejudices.</p>