Parents of rising seniors: Let the games begin

Parents Forum
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<p>Her father works for a major private university and one of their perks is up to a 70% tuition award matched to the tuition at the school she attends. Their tuition is pretty high so it would be a goodly amount toward any school. To some it would be almost the whole amount and to the most expensive it would be more than half. Oddly though, it only applies to tuition so when my son went to the Coast Guard Academy it paid nothing because they called the only payment we had to make (a $3,000 entrance fee) something other than tuition. I didn't really complain. We'll make it up on the next one.</p>

<p>Oh and regarding the test scores, it is true that they are not as strong as everything else. This has always been her weakness. She tends to overthink the questions. She runs out of time. She has been test prepping for a while and the scores are getting better. She is now at least in the 50% range for her top choices except for one. She's doing much better but she knows that her scores are not going to be what gets her in. She has taken a very challenging curriculum and we are hoping that will provide good evidence of her capabilities. I want her to add a couple more safe bets to the list though so she doesn't get disappointed.</p>

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<p>NewJerseyChessmom: for engineering/business. consider RPI.</p>

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<p>mep'smom...there are a LOT of colleges out there where a student with almost 1300 (old test) SAT scores would be very welcome especially with great grades etc. That score is WELL above the national average. We will be THRILLED if our daughter gets in the 600s on each section of the new SAT and that will put her in the mix at all the schools she is presently looking at. </p>

<p>Thank you for the explanation about the money following. I don't understand what that would have to do with her recruitment as an athlete. If she is competitive in her sport, it seems to me they would be THRILLED to have her regardless of any money that "she brings". I always thought that recruitment of athletes was to enhance the team...and that the scholarships given were secondary to that.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Carolyn. These are very good suggestions.</p>

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<p>Thanks ocmom - nice to know that I'm not alone in this. Actually, I'm not so much worried about the money as to the legalities. My son has saved up money while working so will be able to pay a lot of his own way -- and if he chooses the community college route, that's no problem at all financially. I'm sure you have figured out that community colleges in Calif. are a great bargain.</p>

<p>But my question is whether it will be legit for me to list 2 kids in college on my daughter's FAFSA ... when son is not legally my dependent. Once he goes back to school, I think I can claim him as a dependent again -- but I'm thinking that I will be filling out a 2006 FAFSA marking that I only have 1 dependent (my daughter) - but 2 kids in college.... and it seems to me that they are going to question that. </p>

<p>And what if he plans to go to college, but then doesn't? Or doesn't go long enough in 2006 to qualify as a dependent. I can see college being very on-again, off-again now that he is working and on his own. I am happy to subsidize him if he returns to school, but I won't support him when he is not in school -- which isn't a problem, since he's really clear on the concepts of "job" and "rent". But it puts me in an odd situation financially. In my heart, it feels like a cheat to "claim" him on the FAFSA -- I'm not really supporting him at this point.</p>

<p>If the financial aid system treated him as independent, I'd just tell him I couldn't help with college any more -- I warned him when he dropped out that I couldn't manage 2 in college and would have to prioritize his sister when her turn came up. But its not fair to him to face a financial aid system that attributes my assets to him-- I really should give him at least the amount of that the FAFSA EFC says is my share. </p>

<p>What do parents do if there are supposed to be 2 in college, and then one doesn't attend as planned? Notify the college and file an amended FAFSA? In a way, this could be a little bit of a windfall for me -- it will reduce the amount I owe for my daughter, when she is looking at private colleges (expensive), and he may end up attending community college or one of the CSU's. But as much as I rely on financial aid, I really am not the type to want to game the system.</p>

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<p>Her sport is a headcount sport. They are only allowed full scholarships in her sport in Div 1 schools-no partials. Currently NCAA allows 12 scholarships and beginning next year it will be 14, I don't know if there is a limit on invited walkons. If a coach is faced with a prospect who is very good and needs 100% money to come and another athlete who needs about half in order to come, they almost always defer to the athlete who is looking for more money since the scholarships cannot be split. They figure that if she wants to come and can come up with half the money her chance of getting the rest together is probably better than the kid who has none. About the only time this is different is if the half tuition kid is a phenom or if the coach can wrangle academic money for their half tuition kid. They also have some other calculation rules that involve calculating all money that the team collectively is given. It can't exceed their scholarship limit (I think, this part always confuses me and I don't know if I have it right). In her case she is trying to use her participation and willingness to walkon as a hook for admission. She is a Regional Competitor having missed the cut to Nationals last year and being injured this year during her season. She has one more season to turn that around. If she pulls that off then she would be in line for some athletic money.</p>

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<p>calmom, if you can't claim him as a dependent on your taxes, can't he declare independence when filling out his own fafsa? I mean, if he is required to list your assets, what about people who are under 24 and married, or military or whatever?
I would think he'd need a copy of his own tax returns and need to speak with someone in the financial aid dept of whichever school he is attending. Since he probably has very little assets (or at least, probably less than you) he could probably qualify for much more aid as opposed to having to fall under your umbrella of assets/income.</p>

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<p>Dr. Drewsmom - the FAFSA specify that students who are married or coming out of the military can be viewed as independent -- but absent those circumstances, if the kid has a living parent, it has to be age 23 or 24. I'm not so sure about the age - but since theocmom happens to have a son turning 24, she probably would know. </p>

<p>There is absolutely no way around the age room for a kid like this, who merely has not been in school and working for awhile. The rules are very, very clear on that. It's probably there to prevent kids from claiming to be independent when they are not -- I mean, it would be financially advantageous for every kid to take a gap year after high school, establish independence, and then go to college and get full need based aid, if it were allowed. (It would probably be emotionally advantageous as well - it would do a lot of kids a lot of good to try making their way in the real world for a year or so before college -- but that's a whole different issue.)</p>

<p>But bottom line - if he goes back to college this year, or next (and maybe the year after), at least on paper my assets are counted, whether or not I contribute.</p>

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<p>Screen name: mel5140
Junior: female
Home state: NJ
Pref. geog. location: east coast but likely nj, ny, mass, pa., ri, possibly nh, md
Things looking for in a school: ivy but not necessarily, pre-med program, 7 yr medical possibly, academic scholarship but not necessarily if ivy, music, small or large but prefer not real large, nice campus
Academic interests: looking to become doctor but may take route of majoring in spanish lit. in college while still taking pre-med courses
Possible schools on list: Princeton, Columbia, UPenn, Brown, Wellesley, Swarthmore, Mt. Holyoke, John Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Smith, TCNJ (can get full scholarship for 4 yrs including rm & board plus laptop based on class rank and SAT scores), Rutgers, Drew (no scholarship for pre-med students in 7 yr medical program), Cornell, Villanova, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, others in PA have not yet even looked
Colleges visited: none ( have walked through Harvard, Princeton, Wellesley and drove thru TCNJ but no campus tours yet - no time until the summer!!!</p>

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<p>CalMom- S just did FAFSA - it doesn't ask for # of dependents, it asks for family members, age, and whether they are in college or not, full or part-time. If a parent would be in college, you put that down too. </p>

<p>You could, with your son's permission, call and talk to the local CC financial aid office- I have found them to be very helpful.</p>

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<p>If the student is 24, he is considered independent and his financial aid package is calculated on his earnings and assets, though any money he gets from you or anyone else is going to be included in the earnings end. Since he will considered as an independent for financial aid, he will not be considered as another one in college when the EFC is calculated for the other one in college.</p>

<p>However, I do know some schools that have exceptions to this rule, though they are PRofile schools. If the parent indicates that he is paying for another kid's grad or professional school, it may consider that in the equation for financial aid. So, yes, it does pay to ask the school specifically how they look at the situation. The FAFSA EFC is calculated, however, the way I described above, so the school would have to make adjustments to the EFC unless they address the issue on PROFILE or their own financial info supplement.</p>

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<p>To theocmom -- thanks - that really clears things in my mind. If its just a matter of indicating what family members are in college, then it makes more sense. I was also kind of obsessing over the fact that my son no longer lives at home - so he's not a member of the household either. Nor does he have a "custodial parent".... but I know that won't stop FAFSA from wanting paperwork. </p>

<p>It's not an issue with the community college - but since my son has almost 2 years of college already, he can only use cc to fill the gaps in core requirements for whatever 4-year college he transfers to. My son doesn't need aid to attend community college - the fees are only $26 per unit.</p>

<p>Jamimom - I don't know if your comment was meant generally or addressed to me or theocmom -- but her son will be 24 in the fall, mine just turned 22. I won't pay for my son's college after he is 24 if it is hardship for me -- I told him when he decided to quit that I couldn't promise future funding. But I will contribute whatever FAFSA amount is calculated based on my assets -- I just don't see how it would be fair to him any other way.</p>

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<p>I went through the college search with my daughter (2004 HS grad) and am now gearing up for my son, although his search is ENTIRELY different (i.e., he's focused!)</p>

<p>Screenname: Mauimom</p>

<p>Junior: Boy</p>

<p>Home state: Maryland</p>

<p>Son has already compiled his list of schools (he wants sports journalism) and has visited all but one: USC, Northwestern, Syracuse, UNC, U Missouri, U Kansas, and U Washington (not yet visited, but we've been in Seattle several times). He did a 2-1/2 week internship @ USC in Feb, and it remains his first choice. He's attending NW's summer program for journalism, so we'll see if that changes his mind.</p>

<p>For daughter, we visited: NYU, Fordham, Drew, BU, Ithaca, Northwestern, DePaul, Tulane, U Denver, Loyola Marymount (Los Angeles), Occidental, Beloit, U Mass Amherst, Hampshire and Boston College. [Applied to all but last five.]</p>

<p>Daughter has just finished freshman year @ LMU and is transferring to NYU's Gallatin School of Individual Study. </p>

<p>I'd be glad to provide impressions on any of these based on our visits.</p>

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<p>Hi mauimom, I'd like your impressions of Tulane, Northwestern, and Boston College. What do you know about NYU?
Anybody know anything about Washington and Lee?</p>

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<p>mauimom, why the transfer out of LMU?</p>

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<p><<mauimom, why="" the="" transfer="" out="" of="" lmu?="">></mauimom,></p>

<p>Short answer: insufficient academic challenge.</p>

<p>Longer answer: DD began college search as a theatre major, applied to many audition-based programs. Didn't get into any. Thus was left with non-audition-based programs: Tulane, Denver, Drew and LMU. LMU actually has a well-known and well-connected theatre dept. It just wasn't a good fit for her. And once she changed out of theatre major, she found it hard to find good classes, teachers, etc. (Search my screen name and you'll see my rants on this subject over the last year.)</p>

<p>Northwestern: I'll have to defer re impression, since Dear Husband took both kids for their visits. I'll be along when DS goes to summer program there, so I'll report later. Son's guidance counselor did say, "I don't know WHAT'S with Northwestern these days," meaning "I can't predict who will get in and who won't."</p>

<p>Tulane: Beautiful campus, particularly the park right outside the gates. Worst tour ever; tour guide was complete dolt. Heard conflicting opinions: school is really moving up, using $$$ to fund smart students & good profs. vs. school has lots of partying, drinking, none too serious student body. I didn't want to find out by sending my kid there.</p>

<p>BC: Beautiful, beautiful. They appear to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder: all the students in our "panel" said, in one way or another, that they were at BC because they didn't get into Harvard. However, my best friend's daughter transferred to BC and LOVES it. Of course Boston is the best!! BC also has "issues" with acceptance of gays/lebians, abortion, etc. because of its Catholic nature. We saw items in the school paper & flyers on this when we were there. I'd investigate further before proceeding. (Daughter thought it was "too preppy" so didn't apply.) I also hear that their early admission is particularly brutal [read: they let in very few].</p>

<p>NYU: my daughter applied to Tisch (theatre) during Round One. Didn't get in. VERY competitive to get in. As a transfer, she applied to Gallatin School of Individualized Study. She can take classes in many different schools (and perhaps catch a glimpse of MaryKate or Ashley, although reportedly they don't go to class much). Daughter knows NYC really well and I think will appreciate the wide range of interesting things just a subway ride away. Having had the "college campus" experience at LMU, has decided that it's not a problem that NYU has no "campus."</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>Hayden,
Thanks for the suggestion--I had not thought of this one, but I told S to check it out!
Laurel
P.S. No I am not currently in Wyoming, but I am from Wyoming, and have every intention of getting back to the Rockies asap. Have to pay for pricey LAC first :)</p>

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<p>OK, here's a half-joking/half-serious question: does anyone else have doubts that their child will be ready for college in a year? I do. I mean, I know my daughter will be ready from an academic standpoint, but she still seems so immature and disorganized at times that it is sometimes scary to think of her winging her way halfway across the country and taking care of herself on a day to day basis. Some major hormone better kick in in the next year or I can't imagine how she will ever survive. :)</p>

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<p>Oh,gee carolyn-I am right there with you. D has heard me say more than once this month-you have some maturing to do before you are ready to be thousand miles from home with a problem prof/boy/roommate. Everybody keeps telling me they'll grow up but D pitched a hizzy tonight about what she was to wear to an awards banquet. A highly charged emotional hizzy that lasted about 5 minutes total. I really need to see some consistent progress on the control of emotions side of things.</p>

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<p>LOL! Imagine a dorm full of girls pitching hizzy fits. This morning, my daughter woke me at 5 a.m. in a panic because she couldn't remember where she had put a signed form she absolutely postitively HAD to turn in TODAY for community service hours. "I think I threw it out!" she said in her best-wild-hizzy-fit-the-world-is-about-to-end shriek.</p>

<p>By 5:05, I was out on the curb in my nightgown digging through the trash cans looking for said form. Couldn't find it. Came back in to the house, only to find my daughter calmly sitting at the kitchen table eating corn flakes. What, I asked, are you doing? Why aren't you looking for the form?</p>

<p>"Oh, didn't I tell you? I found it in my backpack" she said serenely.</p>

<p>I can not post the words I used at that moment, but they were not exactly full of motherly tenderness. :)</p>