A caution with AP credits. They can help with freshman or intro level math or physics courses, but depending on the AP course, it may mean nothing. (For example, non-calc Physics are worthless credits if you are in Engineering). Depending on the college, all those “free” 4 credits may do is move you to higher class status (ie junior earlier) and at some schools, when you are a Jr/Sr, you pay higher tuition.
Also, if there are a lot of “soft” AP credits (social sciences, humanities, etc), and you are engineering, you have just eliminated the kid’s ability to “balance” their schedule. Engineering (for example) has a lot of math/quant courses, and those gen Ed’s help give a kid a break if lab sections, recitations, etc. All 15 credit semesters are not equal and sometimes that humanities class is a nice alternative for a kid.
Google “university” “AP credit equivalent” and you can see how AP credits map.
Surprisingly, even Physics C may be worthless at some colleges. For example from the FAQ for S23’s astronomy BS:
“The PHYS department does not recognize high school AP PHYS credit. In extraordinary cases, the PHYS department can administer a final exam for PHYS 161H. The level of rigor between high school and university level Physics is significantly different such that all students are required to take first semester Physics at the University. First semester PHYS at the University also has a substantial laboratory component which is not replicated in many high school PHYS classes.”
I assume 161H is the Honors version of intro physics which is what a lot of schools do instead of giving credit - they offer an Honors version if you think you’ll be bored in standard. They are also usually taught at the same time so if you spend 40 hours doing that first pset you can easily drop down to regular Physics so you don’t interrupt your pre-gaming schedule too bad
In this case the department recommends everyone takes the Honors sequence, including those who aren’t in the Honors college:
“While it is possible to take the non-Honors PHYS 141, 142, 241, 243 sequence, Astronomy majors are recommended to take the more rigorous PHYS 161H, 162H, 261H, 263H sequence.”
Because as they say at the start:
“The B.S. program is designed to prepare students to continue to graduate school to pursue a Ph.D. in Astrophysics and for a career in Astronomy.”
But I’m sure some people can’t cope with that. I’ll be interested to see how much winnowing takes place.
Even leaving aside the colleges that don’t take AP credits at all (or use them purely for placement), it isn’t just the sciences—for example, a surprising number of places don’t give credit for language AP exams, or give a very small amount for even a 5.
That said, I consider the AP curriculum quite excellent college prep, but I remain unconvinced that students are, in the great majority of cases, benefited by starting their college careers in a higher course due to high scores on an AP exam. Introductory-level courses are not just an introduction to the subject matter, they are also widely constructed as “How to Do College” courses, and even well-prepared students usually need that—I don’t care how good your high school was, college is going to be different.
So I’m decently well sold on the utility of AP courses, but the AP exams? Even leaving aside that they don’t do what they claim to do (read: measure whether a student has acquired the same material as they’d get from a college course), they might actually do harm in many cases.
Diversity was a big deal for us too. I suggest you visit Bama with your kid. Tuscaloosa will surprise you. Very diverse and as pointed out, blueish. Also, re politics, is your kid politically active? Mine is not at all and could care less. FWIW, I went to a very diverse undergrad school that up until two years ago was voted as one of the most conservative campuses. So, diversity does not equal a liberal student body.
If an engineering student applies AP credits to general education requirements, they now have free space in their curriculum that they can fill with any courses they want. They can add a foreign language, or art or music practice. They can go deeper into the humanities and social sciences. Or they can simply lighten their courseload if they choose. Adding more freedom to the schedule doesn’t eliminate options.
I don’t think it was the intent of the phrasing (and scare-quotes acknowledged), but even so I want to push back against the labeling of those sorts of courses as “soft”.
Yes, there are plenty of English majors who struggle mightily to do even basic algebra—but there are also plenty of engineering majors who can’t write their way out of a wet paper bag.
Certain subjects have reputations as easier than others, but in actuality what subjects are harder or easier varies by individual.
With all the talk about AP I will throw in my two cents.
As some have stated some of the more elite schools limit the number of APs a student can use. That kinda sucks.
This is a little counter-intuitive but I feel APs are best used for non-major areas. Basically getting those Gen Ed credits that you only take because the school requires it and they don’t have anything to do with a major.
D19 came in with a ton of AP credits. She also started out as Pre-Med. Most med schools don’t like APs so she retook some classes she would have gotten credit for. She still used plenty others and it helped her double major in the end and get two minors. She did ditch the pre-med.
D23 on the other hand is going to be able to approach it slightly differently as she is going into Secondary Education and not STEM. He APs will allow her never to have to take some classes again after HS. She shouldn’t have to take a Math or Science class in college. Basically she will be able to avoid all but about two of the GenEd classes.
I’ve said this before on CC, but D20 had a ton of AP credit (5s) and was able to use only one of them directly (for advanced placement into a subject level). The rest of the AP credits were given as general credits…but for her, the credits were worthless because they didn’t replace or reduce any of the classes she needed to take.
So, she will be graduating from college with a ton more credits on her transcript than are needed to graduate but none of the AP credit goes towards any graduation requirement.
I don’t regret her taking the AP classes, but when her siblings wanted to pick and choose what AP tests they would take from the classes they were taking I said, “Take them or don’t. It is completely up to you as they may or may not be at all helpful for useful college credit.”
Vibrant, compact campus in comparatively quiet west Philadelphia. The hustle and bustle of Center City is just a Septa ride away. Penn students are labeled as pre-professional, but I think that label is a misnomer. Students can be serious and focused but that doesn’t mean they have all mapped out their futures. Overall, Penn kids are down-to-earth, collaborative, and friendly. Because of the small class size (~2400) C19 knows people across all the schools and can’t walk down Locust without seeing a friendly face; the socialness of Locust Walk makes the university feel smaller which both C19 and C23 like.
Plenty of clubs, intramural sports, community service, and research opportunities. Also, lots of fun and free events offered through the college houses. Extracurriculars will be on display at Quaker Days during the activity fair. If your child is interested in joining clubs, plan to spend some time at the fair to get a sense of commitment and club membership (open vs competitive). I’m not sure how much Quaker Days programming there will be for parents as I skipped all those sessions having been through college admissions with C14.
Choosing Penn is as much about city fit as it is about college fit; it seems people either love or hate Philly. Visiting should provide clarity. Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
A little perspective. Two days ago was the four year anniversary of D19 committing to her school. It came up on FB. We did it on an admitted students visit. Let me tell you time does fly by. In just over a month she will be graduating and coming home for about 10 days and then going off on the next part of her journey.
D19 was home for Easter. She picked up the paperwork I printed out for D23 for her courses for her major/minors. She also grabbed the AP paperwork. She then proceeded to figure out D23’s class schedule for fall down to the section and class days and times. D19 said she missed not filling out a schedule for next semester for the first time in forever. She also didn’t want D23 to get some bad advice from an advisor like she did freshman year that caused her to take a freshman level class senior year.
As parents I will say I feel more prepared for child #2 to start college compared to #1. I feel like we know what to stress about and what really doesn’t matter in the long run. Basically what you think is important sometimes isn’t really that important when the kids show up on campus.
One of my favorite classes I took in college was the freshman level class in my major that I talked my way into senior year!! The professor made me promise I would sit in the front row and not reveal that the current event pop quizzes he gave didn’t count!
There isn’t too much difference between the 2 as CC Philly has plenty of residential neighborhoods and Philly isn’t Manhattan level density.
And I’m not trying to de dismissive but replace ‘Quaker Days’ with school X’s nickname and it basically describes a few hundred schools across the US.
I mean Penn has lots of money so you may find more support but you could also get stuck in an old dorm with a rodent problem and wonder where all that money is going.
@SoccaMomma Which college did you child get accepted to - it it Wharton? If your child wants to go into the business world after UG then UPenn Wharton is a great choice. If your child wants to live in an urban environment then UPenn is a great choice.
I will have to ask my better half tonight as she will remember more, but one thing I would say is girls will tend to bring too many clothes. We all know it is nice to have options, but having every piece of your wardrobe is not necessary and it usually takes up too much space getting to campus and too much space in the room. Dorms are small. Stressing about finding pics of the dorm room online before you show up. It isn’t worth it.
Cleaning supplies most kids(mostly boys) won’t use them and you will get an unopened item back in May.
One item I do think you need plenty of is over the counter cold/flu medicine. No kid wants to get to the store when sick. Trust me they will get sick living in a dorm. Dorms are petri-dishes. Also some locations kick off kid’s allergies since it is new to them.
I agree with every point you just enumerated. Our son took so much less stuff back with him this year for his 2nd year. They don’t need their whole life to move with them. But one thing they do need a lot of is cold and flu medicine. Everyone gets sick that first year because it’s like a giant petri dish of germs. Send DayQuil etc.
But also teach your kid NOT to double up on medications that include the same ingredients (like DayQuil + Tylenol). Some kids have no clue and end up hospitalized, harming their livers. And especially don’t drink if you are taking all those medications!
