Parents -- Stop Obsessing, Start Encouraging

Parent Cafe
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<p>You do realize that an opinion could constitute a personal attack, right? Like “I think you’re stupid” or “Iran can’t be trusted with a nuclear program!”</p>

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<p>Great. That’s also an implied attack that’s accusing everyone who disagrees with you of irrationally treating Ivies like gods. AND completely ignores what they’ve actually said. Quite impressive, I must say! For a moment there, it seemed like you actually cared about discussion and were willing to defend your ideas.</p>

<p>Oh, here’s another OPINION (NOT a personal attack :wink: ): You’re immensely conceited and should stop already.</p>

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<p>OP, no need to get too “emotional”. No one ever suggests that you should bow down and worship Ivy Colleges. Depending on each individual’s situation, there could be pros and/or cons of going to an Ivy.</p>

<p>Will you be a little bit happier if I tell you that, when we sent our child to his college on the first day, we heard in the cafeteria that an upperclass student complained to his friend how tough his days were/are/will be because of the academic stress? The grass could look greener on the other side of the fence. When a college is good for one kid, the same college may not be good for another kid. There is no need to say anything good or bad about another college you did not attend.</p>

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<p>If an individual cannot recognize that many attendants (albeit, not all) are egocentric at Ivy League Universities, then you have not indulged yourself in the environment. I have visited Princeton and Yale, and it was very clear that the students there thought they were special and better than your average college student. I’m sorry, but I refuse to believe that having a 4.2 versus a 3.7 makes you more intelligent or special in any context. </p>

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<p>Words fail me.</p>

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<p>Sigh. BadgerState, WHY DO YOU CARE that people might think they are better than you? Go out there, live your life, and prove them wrong by achieving or exceeding your goals.</p>

<p>When people are told for years and years that they are special and that getting into an Ivy League college is proof of their specialness, they are going to believe it. MANY of us here agree with you that there are many paths to success in life. MANY of us would send our kids to USC or similar colleges. You really need to get over the perceived indignity of people you don’t know thinking things that you don’t agree with. Really.</p>

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Hmmm… I’ve spent a fair amount of time on several Ivy league, top 20 and top LAC campuses. I don’t seem to recall anyone wearing their HS GPA on their sleeve…</p>

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<p>OP, You really come off as a person who is (too) quick to judge a person before you have given more chances to know him/her better.</p>

<p>Your post somehow reminds me that, at one time a “friend” of DS heard that DS was planning to apply to Rice when they were in high school, he immediately jumped to the conclusion that the students at that college are mostly pretentious.</p>

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<p>@momofWildChild:</p>

<p>“So Purple Titan, you have a random sample of one Duke PhD? I’m sure there are plenty of entitled graduates from less selective institutions, too.”</p>

<p>Oh? And why are you so sure? OK, I take that back; there may be some entitled graduates from East Podunk State, but it wouldn’t be because of the school they went to. Seriously, do you <em>really</em> believe that there are grads out there who think “D*mn, I’m so special, I went to <em>East</em>Podunk<em>State</em>!”.</p>

<p>In any case, why are you so defensive? I didn’t state that all Ivy Leaguers are entitled. I did say that it’s detrimental to a kid if he/she does get it in to his/her head that they’re special just because they went to a certain school (whether that be an Ivy or a flagship state school or . . . East Podunk State) and think that they don’t have to work as hard as others to get where others have gotten (and the Duke guy was just given as an example of that attitude).</p>

<p>Are you seriously going to disagree with that and try to defend the position that feeling entitled is OK?</p>

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<p>This thread is way OT but I hope we realize it’s not cool to judge people based on the college they went to.</p>

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<p>And yet you started this thread with describing how you have no respect for them because they are filled will snobbish elitists…</p>

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Just a thought … maybe a lot of those people you saw at Princeton and Yale who you found arrogant jerks were actually accepted students who were on campus visiting … and turned down Princeton and Yale and went to SEC schools.</p>

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<p>I think the problem is with the OP. I can assure you that students at many of the SEC schools think they are “better” than the students at the other SEC schools. Just go to a sporting event and you will learn this! Of course, it’s only true in the case of Vanderbilt! :)</p>

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<p>Actually, UT-Austin’s not SEC but a random guy from there got involved in an argument (which I was somewhat involved in) about climate change and mocked everyone else by asking questions like, “Where are you from, a liberal arts school?”</p>

<p>When I visited there (Pre-VIP/VIP), the guy introducing us to Cockrell made jokes like “What do Aggies and Sooners have in common? They both applied to UT.” Arrogance definitely isn’t an Ivy-exclusive trait, and I personally think that the Ivy “elitism” is way more tolerable than “MY SCHOOL TEACHES PRACTICAL STUFF LIKE BUSINESS AND ENGINEERING AND ANYONE WHO LEARNS LIBERAL ARTS IS INFERIOR” (which is the flavor I’ve seen most often in state school’s UG eng. and business program- not to suggest it’s that common) which just comes off as simple-minded and ignorant.</p>

<p>But if you want an example from the SEC: I had an English teacher (freshman year) whom many would describe as a “terrible person” (her hobby: knocking down someone’s GPA one semester and giving them the achievement award in her class as a sort of cruel joke; she also intervened and blocked one of our most qualified and well-liked students from getting to speak at graduation because she felt “he didn’t deserve to be valedictorian”) was also pretty well-known for knocking down other schools (a la OP) to prove A&M’s superiority. Supporting her alma mater in an essay was probably in the same list as “saying something Christian” and “saying Twilight is better than Harry Potter” (I know, terrible person!) since they all ended up giving people higher scores. Hell, people gamed this and got past her cruel system of never giving anyone above a 90 on an essay. And her “school pride” was so in-your-face it practically physically hurt to hear her talk about A&M and put down schools- even in areas that they’re objectively better.</p>

<p>So elitism/entitled-ness comes in all flavors. And I don’t think OP’s off the list just because he couldn’t get into any Ivies.</p>

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<p>Man, I didn’t even get past the OP’s first paragraph. Total nonsense. Prestige isn’t just a word, it’s a label society has attached to excellence. Every parent does his/her best to guide their child toward that excellence. We don’t spend 17 years guiding them in the right direction to suddenly let them loose just when they need our guidance the most. Parents, give your child every opportunity and detail possible about every school you believe will give them the best shot of success and yeah, drill it into their head if you need to. 4 years from now when they graduate from the best school possible, they’ll thank you for all that drilling, trust me. They may roll their eyes now and ask you to back off, but you haven’t backed off for 17 years, so why start now when they need it the most? You know what pressure is, and it’s not shoving details of the best schools in their face. If that’s pressure, they’re going to have a wake up call when they walk into their first real career.</p>

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<p>Did it ever occur to you that maybe I prefer the SEC and would choose it over a full-ride to an Ivy League? I’m sorry, but I do. The greek houses down here are gorgeous, something that cannot be found in the North at this level. The women are more down to earth and less in your face feminist (did I mention lovely). Don’t even get me started on our football, because the SEC is king – and that is not debate that can be won on any other side.</p>

<p>Now the Ivy has it’s perks. World-class professors, phenomenal dorms, diversity in areas and race, great campuses, excellent facilities, and very good connections. </p>

<p>Nevertheless, I prefer the SEC. Am I better? No. Do I think they are better schools? Absolutely. Academically the divide is not what U.S News and World Report would like you to believe.</p>

<p>I love my school and I love my conference, just like you love your Ivy and you love your conference.</p>

<p>Can we just accept this and move forward with what is becoming a very pointless debate in which has gone nowhere and only irritated both sides? I respect your opinions, respect mine in the same regard.</p>

<p>Apologies for offending anyone in this thread. Not my intention. I am truly new here and just commented on what I saw and offered my take. If you are offended, I’m sorry, but I hold the same positions.</p>

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<p>There is a lot of arrogance and elitism in the greek houses. Have you seen that on your campus, OP?</p>

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<p>@fullload:</p>

<p>“4 years from now when they graduate from the best school possible, they’ll thank you for all that drilling, trust me.”</p>

<p>Depends on their debt load.</p>

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<p>@BadgerState‌ That’s awesome. I’d choose CMU over any Ivy*, too, but I’m not going around calling the Ivy “liberalized” and “snobby” and “elitist” over it. I don’t start threads attacking parents for pushing Ivies over CMU (which doesn’t really happen; there’s a fair share of CMU recommendations here). I don’t just barge into a community that I haven’t been a part of for very long and attack its members over behaviors that are tough to perceive even in the little anecdotal evidence I have. And I certainly don’t develop an inferiority complex and keep presenting new justifications for my school of choice in every comment.</p>

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<li>except Princeton and maybe Brown and Cornell; but that’s just because CMU has one of the best undergrad programs for my major/field</li>
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<p>See, that’s another huge attack (on feminism, women, and the Ivies). Are you in the 1960’s? There aren’t many huge protests anymore. And given the Title IX investigations, any concerns about women on campus are pretty justified. Honestly, the last time I went to a SEC school, they threw condoms at me while dancing to Gangnam Style so I don’t know what you’re talking about.</p>

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<p>I don’t think most non-football players go to school to watch football games. I don’t think many high school football players would choose the SEC over Harvard either (I know a few athletic recruits). But yeah, sure, you can have football.</p>

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<p>And now we know just how much education you sacrificed for Greek housing.</p>

<p>I’m not going to an Ivy League school. Actually, I chuckled a bit when my friend was talking about the superiority of Yale’s CS program (which he chose over UT’s Turing Scholars). I’m not defending the Ivies, even. I’m defending the people you’re trying to give advice to, and I’m attacking you for being such a jerk about this.</p>

<p>YES, WE’RE ALL FINE WITH YOU CHOOSING THE SEC. THAT’S NOT WHAT THIS DEBATE’S ABOUT. NO ONE CARES THAT YOU CHOSE USC. WE’RE JUST TELLING YOU TO STOP BEING SUCH A JERK ABOUT IT AND THEN PRETENDING THAT YOU’RE THE ONE BEING ATTACKED.</p>

<p>I hope allcaps get through to you. God, I’m glad I avoided the South when applying to college- because if it’s full of people like you, I’d pick a community college over it any day.</p>

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<p>@PurpleTitan‌ Ivy debt loads tend to be low due to the high endowment/student. Debt’s more of a concern for the schools that are just a little bit below the Ivies but don’t have the funds to both remain so competitive and give massive FA packages to students.</p>

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<p>“I hope allcaps get through to you. God, I’m glad I avoided the South when applying to college- because if it’s full of people like you, I’d pick a community college over it any day.”</p>

<p>And I’m the one making generalizations. :slight_smile: Hmmm…</p>

<p>Sir, that condom incident really is not reflective of the whole. There are trashy students at any school. As a whole though, the south is pretty classy and students in general tend to dress nicer and be more friendly. </p>

<p>Do students choose a school for football? Oh god yes, I know many, many students who picked schools for their big sports atmosphere. </p>