<p>@dividerofzero:</p>
<p>Depends on parental income (and the school). HYP (and I believe Dartmouth) are pretty generous to the middle class. I have heard of a kid who graduated with 100K in debt from Cornell, however (and regretted years after graduating that he didn’t take the full-tuition scholarship to Drexel instead).</p>
<p>Anyway, getting into an Ivy is a superior achievement, requiring more ability and hard work, to getting into kinesiology at a second tier state school.</p>
<p>“Anyway, getting into an Ivy is a superior achievement, requiring more ability and hard work, to getting into kinesiology at a second tier state school.”</p>
<p>Referring to schools as second and first tier showcases your elitist attitude. </p>
<p>@BadgerState Note the “if” 
I was pretty careful since some of my closest friends did in fact pick a SEC school over an Ivy. In fact, their parents pushed them to do it against their own wishes. Looks like it’s a two-way street, heh?</p>
<p>Yeah, I know the condom incident wasn’t representative (it was still pretty funny, though). But these schools are HUGE and you can always find people of a certain type there; just like you can avoid the frat domination at UT, you can avoid the small vestiges of protest culture at Columbia.</p>
<p>But in the end- what I’m saying is that there’s really very few people out there who’re Ivy crazed. It’s really offensive to offer unsolicited advice and attack the Ivies over it, because- trust me- people on CC generally get it.</p>
<p>Of course; but I don’t know many Ivy-bound kids who’re regretting the lack of highly competitive D1 football at their schools. I’m talking about the overlapping category here, not just people in general.</p>
<p>@PurpleTitan Yeah, I was mainly thinking HYPMS + Rice/Caltech, which are just ridiculous in terms of aid and endowment/student. The “lower Ivies,” outside certain majors, can be much riskier.</p>
<p>I also think you’re throwing around the term “elitist” way too easily. “Tiers” are an actual classification (by groups like Carnegie) and, yeah some colleges aren’t on the same level of selectivity as others.</p>
<p>I mean, if “college’s bias toward minorities that don’t perform well in academics” (paraphrased from another thread) is a “fact of life” for you, so is the reality that some colleges just aren’t as tough to get into as others.</p>
<p>This is like saying “Saying African-American and white makes you a racist!” I thought name-calling at that level was reserved for liberals who think you’re close-minded just for believing LGBT Americans aren’t entitled to the same level of happiness as you.</p>
<p>Not sure when this thread turned into an attack on Ivies. That developed over time, but that was not the initial point of the thread. The initial point of the thread was to say what we’ve both agreed on @dividerofzero…that students should go where they want and not let prestige be the deciding factor in decisions and that those few parents who press their kids to go to elite schools should stress a ‘good fit’. I think we both agree with this. </p>
<p>Again, I did not say Ivies are bad schools. I said they’re overrated and not a better education than a regular school. Better connections, sure. Better name, sure. Better education, no. I think you can get an equal education at a small private Christian college than you can at Yale or Harvard in terms of practical knowledge that can be applied to a career. </p>
<p>The pursuit of superior achievement is a fact of human life. A superior athlete runs faster and gets into more elite competitions than an inferior one.</p>
<p>@sorghum Anyone who knows the rigor of Kinesiology respects the program. It’s not a jock major as many falsely conclude. I’ve known people to drop out because of the difficulty. Lots of anatomy, lots of biomechanics, and physiology. It’s not easy.</p>
<p>@BadgerState At the very beginning, when you called them snobby, elitist, and liberalized? Or when you called them “overrated” just now? It’s also an attack on CC for “overrating” Ivies (which seriously doesn’t happen- look at the top thread under “Ivy League” right now- it’s an attack on the Ivy League!).</p>
<p>I recognized that we agreed on some things, but this is like me agreeing with Rick Santorum that economic growth is good: pretty meaningless, and the person who said it is responsible for quite a few chuckles.</p>
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<p>Look at the number of HiCi’s at HYPMS. HYPMS are also renowned for undergraduate access. I firmly believe that (for most fields) there is way more opportunity at a Top-10 program than at a program ranked above 25. You will never get the same education at Liberty that you can get at Yale. Does that mean you’re destined to fail in life? No. But it means that your success probably isn’t the result of your small private Christian college.</p>
<p>@BadgerState People drop out of every major. And I’ve known people who dropped out of Algebra I. Doesn’t mean it’s a tough class. APES isn’t the toughest AP, but a lot of people fail it because it’s the easy AP and only half the class consists of people who should be taking an AP in the first place.</p>
<p>@dividerofzero Can we just put an end to this debate already? All we’re doing here is ticking each other off. lol </p>
<p>Yeah, I kind of said this thread should die around 2 pages ago.</p>
<p>Didn’t meant to tick you off; I just find you repugnant and conceited and I’m very bad at hiding it.</p>
<p>When did this thread become an attack on the ivies? Why, in your very first post, OP. Most everyone on cc will agree that an excellent education can be gotten at many schools, and leaving school with a lot of debt is ill advised. </p>
<p>There are cultural differences between many of the northern and southern schools. But is best not to overgeneralize </p>
<p>divider, please do not do what BS is doing and generalize. For one thing, he is not from the south. He is from Wisconsin. As someone who also lives in Wisconsin–right now an incredibly polarized state–I can picture the circumstances that would make anything liberal (including elite universities and “feminist” women) the enemy. There’s a lot of indoctrination going on around here. (Needless to say, the OP and I have very different points of view.)</p>
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<p>Unsurprisingly, none of your reasons for preferring your SEC school has even the slightest connection to intellectual endeavor. If anything, the reverse.</p>
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<p>That’s not education, that’s vocational training. </p>
<p>One thing about the OP is refreshing, though: he thinks that his family is “wealthy” at an income of $140K . A change from those who think that $300K is middle class. :)</p>
<p>@sally305 I’m aware of what’s up in Wisconsin, although I must admit I had a hard time getting to respect big Southern state schools (except GA Tech and UT-Austin and A&M for certain majors) because of their party/frat/football culture. Was trying to avoid generalization, but I’m just tired of the sort of stuff BadgerState is saying. I apologize for any generalizations, though; I’m aware of the size and diversity of schools in the SEC and definitely didn’t find my friends inferior when they chose to go to SEC schools. </p>
<p>Liberal leanings is not the “enemy”. My DH attended Madison on an ROTC scholarship in the 70’s. He did just fine and loved his years there. So its quite possible, OP to survive in a liberal environment. </p>
<p>As a northerner growing up, who attended a small top LAC then to immediately thereafter attend one of your precious huge SEC schools for grad school, I can assure you its quite possible to enjoy both environments.</p>
<p>Ivy Leagues repress conservative thinking while at the same type preaching intellectual growth. To not acknowledge the overwhelming liberal domination of the Ivy League is to neglect history completely. The Ivy Leagues have always been associated with being very one-sided with regards to politics, and I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t want to send my child to an institution that goes one step beyond challenging conservative ideas – they essentially fight them until they die entirely. I don’t believe the professors have a hidden propagandist agenda, but I think the atmosphere at these Universities is very much centered around one particular political ideology. </p>
<p>Have any of you ever read ‘From Bible Belt To Sun Belt’. I have. It paints a very clear picture of just how the Ivy League Universities have shifted American culture through the promotion of a very one-sided view. Read it sometime. Ivy Leagues are not overly tolerant of those who believe gender roles should exist in some capacity or those who still define marriage between a man and a woman (not arguing this one – just mentioning it is bound to generate another 10 pages here). My point is, conservative thought in general is not favored in the Ivies, it is frowned upon. </p>
<p>And open liberal thinking is perhaps not so well received at your christian schools. Both of which are completely irrelevant to this discussion. </p>
<p>@jym626 Actually that’s not true. I attended a Christian University my first year of college. They are very open to hearing and arguing debates on both sides. Though they certainly have a very one sided view, they do not condemn those with more liberal thinking. </p>