I am a sophomore at Washington University in St. Louis and have made the incredibly tough decision of transferring from here to the University of Arizona (local state school). I have thought about it a lot and have weighed the pros and cons. Currently I am a CS+Math major, and I would transfer in as a Statistics & Data Science major. I have already been accepted as a transfer for Fall of 2019. I know there is a big dropoff in prestige with this move, but I have looked at the courses that I would have to take if I stayed here vs. if I transferred, and I feel like that major is more suited to what I want to do. I’m not really liking my CS major much anymore (pretty much chose it because I needed a major and I liked the intro course). I would be minoring in CS at the U of A, though, since its only 2 more classes.
In addition to classes, I really dont like St Louis and would love to be closer to my family in my hometown. The cold and the bleakness of the midwest winters can really get to you, especially being from AZ.
My parents love WashU, though, and desperately do not want me to leave. My dad in particular says that this will “haunt me” when I am looking for jobs because of the difference in prestige. I understand that name recognition matters in fields like medicine and the humanities and some others, but for what I’m going into I don’t think the name of your school matters that much outside of the powerhouses like MIT, Stanford, etc. WashU isn’t exactly a powerhouse in CS.
My mom says that its “just 2 more years” and that I should suck it up and stick it out at WashU. While she has a point, I have researched this heavily and I am really not interested in any of the future classes I would have to take if I stayed here, whereas I could see myself, if not enjoying, at least succeeding at the classes I have to take at the U of A.
I was wondering, as parents, do you have any advice for both me and how I should talk to my parents about this? It’s giving me a lot of anxiety during an already stressful period of school.
Do a cost analysis. Will it cost more or less to transfer, will you have to incur more or less debt? That may sway your parents if there’s a dramatically positive change in finances in transferring to AZ
There is a huge decrease in price going to the University of Arizona @ChaosParent23 . I will also be able to graduate on time. My family is fortunate enough to not have tuition be a concern, however, and my parents are saying that the money factor is not an issue. They are more concerned with the name of the school and its impact on getting a job.
It sounds to me like you have investigated this and want to transfer for all the right reasons. I wouldn’t say “no” if my kid presented it like you did here.
It sounds like you would get a better education in the things you want to do if you were to transfer. And if my kid asked, I’d say “statistics is a much better major, as long as you also make sure you have reasonable programming skills by the time you finish.” My husband and I both believe that CS is “hot” right now and largely overrated as a major (we are in a related field, so we do know something).
Perhaps you should focus on the “suck it up” comment of hers, since it seems a crying shame to waste your college years discontent intellectually. Perhaps suggest that what will “haunt you” is that you will be qualified for the wrong jobs if you don’t change.
Thank you for your response @brooklynlydia . My parents are both in the medical field and college ranking matters a lot more there than in Data Science / CS, so I think that’s where their opinions are being formed. I will definitely have a lot of programming background coming out of college, since I spent my first two years as a CS major, not to mention the CS minor I would be getting.
Actually, college ranking tends to matter less in medicine. But doctors tend to be high-SES and college prestige tends to be more of a social factor in those circles.
Have you taken classes at U of A? You’d be able to find classes that you’d learn from there, but the student body composition there is much different from what you are use to are WashU. If you are fine with that, then I would be fine with saving the money and investing it, myself.
You say that you would like to be closer to your hometown in Arizona — do you think that post-grad you will also want to stay in Arizona? Because no matter how prestigious a degree from WUSTL may seem in other places, nothing really beats an in-state public flagship for jobs within the state. Because it has local name recognition; a very big alumni base for networking; and no one will ever hold it against you or look down on you, because it is the default option for most college-bound students who don’t have wealthy parents who can pay tuition at out-of-state private colleges. Plus, while you are attending school, you will have more opportunities for internships or to seek work in Arizona while you are still in school. (Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m going to guess that there aren’t all that many Arizona-based employers doing recruiting via WUSTL).
I think this is more of an ego thing for your parents – they have a hard time letting go of their own dreams, plus they did pay for the first 2 years of WUSTL with the expectation that is the degree they were paying for … so you might need to give them some time to get used to the idea.
UofA certainly has great STEM programs and also faculty with very good research credentials. As pointed out earlier, the student body will be quite different, although in your major courses at the upper level, you will most likely find academically like-minded students. What was your social circle like at Wash U? At UofA, you will find students across the SES spectrum. Hence, the lack of “cachet” among high SES families. If you went to a competitive high school with similar types of students that you are surrounded by at Wash U, then U ofA may take some adjustment. It’s just something to be aware of, but to me, anyway, it is not a deal breaker.
Seems to me that the prestige issue is more important to your parents than to you. I grew up in AZ and I get how WashU could be a “non-fit” for a variety of reasons. Are you doing okay there academically? socially? Do you find the environment stressful? From your post, I get the impression this is more than just about a change in academic major.
As a parent, I can see where your folks are coming from. At this age, many kids change their minds about what they want to study.
Let’s take a hypothetical example. Fast forward 2 years and you’re now applying for full time jobs. You have your heart set on a data science position at Google. You apply online and are ignored. Later you find out that a fellow student that you know from WashU got his foot in the door at Google by doing a summer internship and was later hired full time. You now kick yourself for leaving, as Wash U would have opened more doors for you.
This is all purely hypothetical of course. After getting your first job, your performance matters much more than the name on your degree. But all things being equal, having name recognition matters for something. It also helps with networking and getting a leg up over the thousands of others applicants.
Arizona has a terrific alumni network! Also, as you said, it will be easy to see your friends and family if you go to Tucson. Phoenix is just a couple hours away.
I think it will help if you frame this transfer as choosing the better program for your academic goals. If your parents did their medical residencies in the US, they know that wanting to be a pediatric oncologist is different from wanting to be a pediatric endocrinologist, and ending up in the right residency program matters. Both of those residencies would overlap quite a bit for the general pediatrics stage, but wouldn’t overlap much (if at all) at the stage where durther specialization becomes necessary.
There is a geat article in today’s Washington Post about how so many college students choose their majors for the wrong reason, and then end up switching majors, transferring, and even dropping out altogether. I can’t link it here right now, but you should be able to find it. Perhaps learning how it is that you chose your Wah U major (basically by accident from your description), and that now you have a clearer, more focused goal, will help your parents accept that transfer is your best option.
Applying for transfer, like applying to grad school or for a medical residency, has much less to do with the overall reputation or ranking of the target institution, than it has to do with those of the target academic department. There are scads of departments out there at any number of colleges and universities that are stronger for one specific field of study than the Wash U department is. You are extremely fortunate that the better program in your case just happens to be at a home-state public U.
I know this isn’t particularly helpful at this stage, but if prestige is an issue, did you look at the Barrett Honors College at ASU, one of the most highly ranked honors colleges in the country despite the reputation of the larger U? We live in AZ and our engineering son had Ivy stats, is graduating at the top of his EE class at West Point, and had Barrett as one of his choices for electrical engineering/CS. He attended an elite New England boarding school that ranks Barrett highly as a college choice for its seniors. I’m mentioning this because it might still be a choice if prestige is a roadblock though I don’t agree that it should be.
Otherwise, I concur with @calmom’s comments. You can get the education you want among peers at U of A, especially if you applied to their honors college. We’ve lived in AZ for 20 years and have seen both U of A and ASU do very well (at unbeatable prices) by all of the kids we’ve known. You can certainly get where you want to go from either place. If you are truly unhappy at WUSTL to the point where you wouldn’t finish, name recognition is immaterial. If you think you can finish strong there, though, and your parents control the purse strings, you may not have much of a choice.
If you were my kid who would be happier closer to home at significantly lower cost, you’d be home in a NY minute.
You’re a bright kid. Why are you in a major you don’t like, and why are you proposing to go to Arizona and get in another major you also don’t like? Why don’t you switch (either at WashU or Arizona) to something you do like? If you get a degree in Data Science, you’ll probably be looking at a career in Data Science. Do you want to spend the rest of your life doing something you don’t enjoy?
@Ariz0na: In looking at your posting history, it appears you’ve been conflicted about WUSTL from the get go. You posted during your application cycle that eventually you want to end up in CA and were accepted to UCLA, but turned that down for WUSTL and regretted it almost immediately but, even then, you showed a preference for U of A. You’ve been unhappy about your choice for two years now and you’ve already applied and been accepted for a transfer. Did your parents help or support you with the transfer app or did they just allow you to go through the motions? Even though they prefer you stay at WUSTL, are they open to this move at all? Rereading your post here, I’m not sure it’s clear that you’ve told them about the transfer acceptance. Have you, or were you able to complete the transfer app on your own and you’re just preparing to tell them the result?
@ChoatieMom I had told my mom that I was going to apply for a transfer, and she said ok, we will make a decision once you have gotten accepted. She was still uneasy about the idea of transferring but she let me apply. They have said that they will support me whatever happens, but they are clearly against the idea and look disappointed whenever I bring it up. I have told them that I’ve been accepted, yes. They are imploring me to stay at WashU though.
If you are presenting it like you did here and there aren’t other factors swaying your decision (like a relationship, etc) than it sounds like you’ve made a solid decision that you feel strongly about, perhaps if you’ve shown indecisiveness in the past than they are hesitant based on that and you simply need to show them you’ve thoroughly thought this through. Maybe try coming at it from the top down, do you have an idea of what you want to do for a career with a Statistics & Data Science degree, even some target companies you’d like to pursue? Maybe you can start researching potential co-ops or internships and reach out within that network to get the ball rolling to better show your parents what you want to do and the possibilities that exist, so they can let go of the notion that not having the WashU degree will hold you back and start to see the path forward as the better fit for you.
I’m afraid that if the parents are “imploring” @Ariz0na to stay at WUSTL, it will be very hard to wrench that bone from their teeth. The fact that they said they will support their student “whatever happens” is positive, but it sounds like they will do so with disappoint in their eyes which may be hard for @Ariz0na to deal with as no kid wants to purposely disappoint anyone they love. That’s a tough burden to bear. I would hope that, with time, the parents can shed whatever misguided attachment they have to a school that is not a good fit for their kid and focus on being proud of what @Ariz0na accomplishes with her alternative choice. Hugs and good luck to you, kiddo.
