Parents Who Do Not Know The Value of A Good Education

Paying for College
101

<p>Boy, I tell you what. I sure wish I had these kids around when I was hiring hundreds of people across the past 10 years. I wouldn't have done it all wrong.</p>

<p>Umm, that's called sarcasm for all you whiz-kids.</p>

<p>Hey, if you don't like the story of my brother-in-law, how about the story of my bestman in my wedding who graduated from Northern Arizona Univ after starting at a Jr. College and is now running corporate research labs for a fortune 500 company. The MIT and Stanford Phd's work for him.</p>

<p>If you don't like that story, go check out this article from USAToday
<a href="http://www.augustana.edu/goodnews/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.augustana.edu/goodnews/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Besides my offense at the unmitigated arrogance of these children, I am hoping that by pursuing this that some students will see what not to become.</p>

102

<p>Basically what all of this all boils down to is a decision on the parents part to provide the best education for their kids. </p>

<p>Either
A) They pay the EFC. This may be difficult for some families, but if the right sacrifices are made it can be done no matter what. </p>

<p>B)They simply do not want to give their child the best chance at life because the hassle of shifting money around and being more thrifty is too monumental for them to handle.</p>

<p>To me the latter shows a lack of dedication to one's child (after all parents took the steps to have us, the least you can do after bringing us into this harsh world is give us the best opportunities feasible), and probably a lack of knowledge about financial aid (My mom is refusing to even let me file the FAFSA, and I'm sure she's not the only blinded parent out there).</p>

<p>This is a moral/ethical call really. I just wish there were ways for a kid to finance his education no matter where he got in... in the event that his parents do not want to pay. </p>

<p>And to one of the above posters... yes my mom is part of adult population that thinks a "college" is a "college" no matter if it's Yale or the University of Central Arkansas. The Ivy League schools in the US are the best schools in the world, and the education one receives there is undoubtedly better than our publically funded schools. Those educations are an asset whether it be in applying to graduate school, or in the job market. If you would like to debate that; I believe you are sorely misguided in your assumptions about how life works. The harder worker does not always win out sadly, sometimes it's who you know and where you came from.</p>

<p>And please calling me "immature and arrogant" really adds nothing to the discussion going on. But just FYI my letters of rec and counselor recs are absolutely glowing to say the least. </p>

<p>If I remember correctly some big name C.E.O was interviewing at Harvard B School and the interviewer asked "Do you think you are smart?" and the CEO replied "I'm ****ing smart". He got in.</p>

103

<p>Well yeah, some students are siding with the parents, but none of the parents are exactly crossing over</p>

104

<p>IMHO there is something to be said for getting the undergraduate degree from a large (read public state school) institution just for the increased odds in the "numbers game" of the hiring company. If you have an undergraduate degree from Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, etc., you have a much greater chance of snagging interview and/or hiring interest from a fellow alum than from any of the Ivy's. I don't claim to know the numbers, but surely the number of graduates from the big schools outnumber the Ivy's probably 20:1 (on a per-school basis).</p>

<p>Also, I've always noticed in life that school roots remain fairly regionalized. If you think you're going to live and work in PA, then you'll stand the best chances in the work force (hiring prospects) going to Penn State, etc.</p>

105

<p>Also, look at schools like USC Marshall. Good school, and the Trojan Family alumni network is amazing and really really good to you. And they offer merit aid. Ivies aren't everything, believe it or not. In the end, your education and your life are what YOU make of them. One of the smartest people I know is going to UGA right now. On a full ride. And I expect him to have a Rhodes in a couple of years.</p>

106

<p>Ok, now that I have completed this marathon of posts I have several things to say, but first I should outline my background so it won't be in question. I am a kid, my parents make 80-85k I am going to an Ivy, already in, the rest will clear up later. First I would like to express my pain for astrife (accurate name), it is sad that your mom wont let you fill out FASFA, and I think that given the parameters you have stated you have a reason to complain. I also want to reprimand all of the people, especially parents, who have taken senseless jabs at this kid, can't you empathies with him?
My parents actually insisted on filling out FASFA for me, I'm not that keen on knowing just what I will be taking from them, and their not keen on telling me more than a dollar amount. That said they wont pay the family portion, they already told me that, I think they would go for co-signing for a loan, why not. That also said, with room/board, food, books, tuition and a $1200 travel allotment it is coming out to about 15,900 maybe 17,000 tops. So, I will have to work some, I knew I would have to sooner or latter. Grad school will be problematic, but one hurdle at a time my legs only reach so far. Something all posters seem to be forgetting is something of great and paramount importance to me, life. You only get to life once, once, so not only is astrife losing the "name" of the school, but he is also losing the experience (yes he is gaining another one, but he seems to want this one), I'm not afraid to be clich</p>

107

<p>TJ, you are lucky that your parents support you and are willing to sacrifice so that you can go to the college you choose. That does not mean that all parents are so obligated.</p>

<p>I love my children and they give me no end of joy, but I have also raised them to be respectful of me and their father, to be independent, and to take responsibility for their own lives. My son is an absolute delight to me - and more than anything I am proud of the fact that he has supported himself completely since the age of 20. </p>

<p>I am a single parent and I've gone through times when I could barely make ends meet. My kids have always been well cared for, but I never made the mistake of confusing their wants with their needs -- nor do they. </p>

<p>It will be a financial sacrifice for me to put my daughter through college in our state university system, but I have promised her that I will do that. If she gets enough financial aid from a private college, then she can attend one -- otherwise she will be at a UC campus next fall. It definitely is not what she wants -- but my daughter isn't a little spoiled princess who gets everything she wants for the asking. She is an intelligent, talented, ambitious and assertive young woman who will get whatever she wants in this life by virtue of her own determination -- what I gave her as a parent was the foundation: the skills & the confidence to make it on her own.</p>

<p>I understand what you mean by growing up in a place where you felt unhappy and unchallenged -- I had a similar childhood. That is why I graduated from high school a year early - I couldn't have lasted 17 years. But I went to an out of state public university -- if the goal is to get away, it doesn't have to be an elite college. A kid with the credentials to get into an Ivy can pretty much write their own ticket at all sorts of colleges that will offer generous merit aid all over the country. If a kid can't see the value of that, then no matter what the SAT score, the kid just isn't very smart.</p>

108

<p>
[quote]
I will do even better for my kids, they will know the joys of stocked libraries, and people who can challenge them intellectually (before they turn 18).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, good luck with that! I sure hope you plan to make a ton of money or marry wealth. You say that a high powered job with lots of income isn't your goal. That's admirable, but you had better make enough to be a perfect parent after you pay off your loans. Step into reality, please!</p>

<p>If you borrow and have to pay back $500 to $1000 every month for ten years or more (after taxes), it WILL cut into your lifestyle. And graduate school will be even more. It will delay your buying a car and a home, and you will have to accumulate more debt for everyday living expenses. Your children won't live a neighborhood full of ivy league intellectuals, they will be living in a neighborhood that you can afford with your considerable college loan debt. How will you offer your own children a better life when you are not financially sound? It will be difficult to offer them personal libraries, enrichment classes, travel, private schooling, etc. when you are in debt up to your eyeballs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
this desire, alone was enough for me to pressure my parents into giving me enough to achieve my goal. Yes this will make things hard on them, but I have been working on them for years,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh, and while you are scraping up the money to give your kids a better life, find some extra monthly cash to help support your parents in their retirement. I hope when they can't afford their home, utilities, groceries, prescriptions and medical bills, they remember to come to you. Or better yet, maybe they can move in with you since they jeopardized their retirement to send you to the school of your dreams. </p>

<p>BTW, if they cosign a loan for you and you default, they are responsible for it. This is why many parents won't cosign for their kids. Really, there is absolutely no guarantee that you will be able to make the payments and then your poor parents will be stuck with the debt.</p>

109

<p>
[quote]
Those educations are an asset whether it be in applying to graduate school, or in the job market.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The name of the degree means nothing if you don't have the goods to back it up.</p>

<p>Lets see,</p>

<p>I work in corprate life and the Chairman/CEO of my company graduated from Marymount College in Tarrytown, N.Y with a major in english and is considered to be one of Forbes most powerful people. If you were to look up their bios and overwheming number are not Ivy league grads.</p>

<p>As others have stated where you attended school is only good for your first job. I have known some Harvard and Yale grads who were as useful as a box of rocks and some CUNY grads who are now VPs. Your school may help you to get your foot in the door but it is your work that gets you a seat at the table.</p>

<p>The moral/ethical thing is that you can't fault any one for doing the best that they know how.</p>

<p>
[quote]
To other parents who might read this, please answer me, how can you have any joy without your kids, don't they complete your existence, or am I just the most lucky child on earth who happens to have been born in a lacking part of the world, am I horrible for feeling any resentment at all, if I have parents who love me so

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I love my child with a passion and like Charlotte the spider would say she is my best work. However, I also hope that I have instilled in her that wealth is not always equated in terms of $ and cents and to be comfortable in your own skin. </p>

<p>So if all of this good ivy league education makes her out to be a person who is shallow, arrogant and comes off with a major sense of entiltlement (Oh yeah, I'm her mom so it would never happen because I would squash it like the pest it is) I could not think of a bigger waste of $175,000</p>

110

<p>If you were an employer, would you choose an applicant from Harvard or an applocant from Alabama State University? This is a no brainer!</p>

111

<p>A Harvard degree would intrigue me, but it would by no means guarantee your hiring. You seem to have this idea that a mark of intelligence trumps all other factors. This may make sense to someone graduating from high school, but that attitude will be to your detriment four years from now.</p>

<p>In my position, I have the opportunity to sit down with many people from all kinds of backgrounds. One meeting that sticks out in my mind was with a gentleman who worked in the Chicago area. He had two doctrates, one from MIT and one from Stanford. Most likely scored well off the scale in intelligence, just the kind of mind you need for the most prestigious schools in the country. This guy was probably great at what he did... sitting in front of a computer screen analyzing code for Motorola. But he had no common sense. He was making 80k per year and not particularly happy with that, but it was clear that unless he had a big change in his life, he was at the top of his earning potential.</p>

<p>Intelligence is never a sole indicator of success, and all an Ivy league degree tells me is that you must be an intelligent guy. It says nothing of whether or not you are a leader. It says nothing if you can make someone else money. It says nothing if you will actually be of value to someone else.</p>

<p>Take the example of coaching. The best players at a sport rarely make the best coaches. Because everything was easy for them. They were so naturally talented, that they didn't have to figure out how to get better. Likewise, they can't show someone else how to get better.</p>

<p>A good coach on the other hand has been there done that. He knows what it takes to make someone else perform beyond their potential, because he had to figure that out as well.</p>

<p>An Ivy league degree may make you appear to be a great player, but it is hardly an indication that you will be of more worth to an organization than that Alabama grad.</p>

112

<p>All the parents basically dittle dattle around my last post about what it all comes down to... choice A... or choice B... you just don't want to make the sacrifices to give your child the best opportunities... 100% of all need is met at most of the top schools... this basically just means you don't want to pay the EFC PERIOD... there is no if ands or buts about it...</p>

<p>you lack integrity as a parent...</p>

113

<p>...and all will not go well with you.</p>

<p>strife-</p>

<p>you have sufficiently proven that you do not understand what integrity is. You are a charicature of the unwise.</p>

<p>To you and every other student that may agree with you, for the love of all that is good, learn what it means to be of value to others.</p>

114

<p>Did these kids even read the posts from parents who know just a little more than they do? Did they read the USA Today article from the link provided by scottaa? It sort of reminds me of a small child having a candy bar tantrum at the grocery store check out ("But I WANT IT!"). </p>

<p>I have never seen such egocentrism. Strife, Fists (do these names say it all?) and TJ, I would suggest that you take a moment from your superior, selfish and argumentative positions and actually reread the posts here. I think you will find that many issues have been addressed from the facts of finances to the reality of the job market.</p>

115

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=142657%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=142657&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

116

<p>I think we should cut these kids some slack.
They are obviously terrified by the headlines in the papers- re college students hit with huge loans, stagnant wages, and no relief in sight.
A degree doesn't guarentee you a job, a living wage, or enough to pay your bills. They aren't confident of their own ability to succeed with a degree from say Hendrix College, so they are pinning their hopes to getting accepted to a competitive school and graduate, the name will say it all when job hunting. ( or so they hope)</p>

117

<p>"They are obviously terrified by the headlines in the papers- re college students hit with huge loans, stagnant wages, and no relief in sight.
A degree doesn't guarentee you a job, a living wage, or enough to pay your bills. "</p>

<p>And as their parents know, having a job now or having an Ivy education doesn't guarantee that one will get decent retirement benefits, hold onto their job until retirement or be able to afford medical care in one's old age.</p>

<p>Add to this, if the parents have offspring with "me, me, me" attitudes, those parents know that they will not be able to count on their kids for anything -- not even emotional support -- as the parents age.</p>

<p>All of these are big reasons for the parents not to sacrifice their hard earned $ in order to send their kids to big bucks colleges. The parents face the same frightening futures that their offspring do, except the parents also currently face age discrimination as well as the declining health and other problems that will come shortly with old age (if the parents haven't already experienced these things).</p>

<p>It's ridiculous for people to think that Ivy League = guaranteed high income and excellent employment. Depending on where one lives, being a graduate of the flagship state college may bring more opportunities. Where I live, that's certainly the case. The employers are more impressed by our second tier state universities than by the Ivy League.</p>

118

<p>So, do you think its possible to have a high paying position from Lazard if one is from U of Arkansas? LOL</p>

119

<p>Yes, they are just kids, somewhere between childhood and adulthood. Many teens feel worried or entitled, or are just plain uninformed. Youth is not a crime.</p>

<p>However, the OP was pretty harsh and judgmental about his mother's financial concerns, which are probably legitimate. I think OP also has a dangerously optimistic opinion of his chances to get into med school and earn $400k/yr. Many teens share his hope that the "right" degree will be the ticket to success, so that's not unusual. But it's really wrong.</p>

120

<p>Did you know that Harvard produces the most CEOs?</p>